Five men arrested by West Midlands anti-terror police
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Original post by Good bloke
No you haven't. You have selected some terrorists where that statement is the case and ignored a similar number of terrorists where it certainly isn't the case.
You continue to ignore the fact that radical Islam plays a part in all of the cases and the fact that there are countless people whose lives have been turned upside down but who have not been exposed to radicalisation and who do not become terrorists.
You continue to ignore the fact that radical Islam plays a part in all of the cases and the fact that there are countless people whose lives have been turned upside down but who have not been exposed to radicalisation and who do not become terrorists.
Do a fraction of what I did and PROVE IT. LINK ME ONE TERRORIST WHO WAS SOLELY MOTIVATED BY ISLAM, and NOTHING went wrong in their lives beforehand.
Original post by BaconandSauce
you've proven nothing.
Yes I did, read my post, there isn't a single case of Islamic terrorism where the perpetrator doesn't have something ****** happen to their lives.
Original post by alevelstresss
You keep on crying that Islam is the sole cause.
You keep on crying that Islam is the sole cause.
No, I have never said that. Islam is a significant, and almost certainly the primary, cause, though
Original post by Good bloke
No, I have never said that. Islam is a significant, and almost certainly the primary, cause, though
No it isn't. These attacks would simply not happen if the perpetrators' lives didn't go to **** in the first place.
Islam is simply the veil behind which these murderers feel better about their hateful actions.
I've substantiated my claims with evidence, where is your evidence? Apart from some hypothetical, bigoted nonsense.
Original post by alevelstresss
No it isn't. These attacks would simply not happen if the perpetrators' lives didn't go to **** in the first place.
Islam is simply the veil behind which these murderers feel better about their hateful actions.
I've substantiated my claims with evidence, where is your evidence? Apart from some hypothetical, bigoted nonsense.
Islam is simply the veil behind which these murderers feel better about their hateful actions.
I've substantiated my claims with evidence, where is your evidence? Apart from some hypothetical, bigoted nonsense.
I have named several people who have gone over to ISIS who have had untroubled lives, which shows that such a life is less important than the Islamic radicalisation itself. These are not hypothetical, they are real people. My contention is not nonsense, as you have not produced evidence to show these people don't fit it.
The fact that you won't revisit your hypothesis in the face of this incontrovertible (or, at least, unchallenged) evidence and QE2's similarly unchallenged point that there are countless traumatised people who do not become terrorists or join ISIS tells us who the bigot is.
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by Good bloke
I have named several people who have gone over to ISIS who have had untroubled lives, which shows that such a life is less important than the Islamic radicalisation itself. These are not hypothetical, they are real people. My contention is not nonsense, as you have not produced evidence to show these people don't fit it.
The fact that you won't revisit your hypothesis in the face of this incontrovertible (or, at least, unchallenged) evidence and QE2's similarly unchallenged point that there are countless traumatised people who do not become terrorists or join ISIS tells us who the bigot is.
The fact that you won't revisit your hypothesis in the face of this incontrovertible (or, at least, unchallenged) evidence and QE2's similarly unchallenged point that there are countless traumatised people who do not become terrorists or join ISIS tells us who the bigot is.
Read my damned posts. I am talking about people who go and commit terrorist attacks, not a bunch of three harmless girls who go and marry an IS fighter. There is a massive difference, because the latter are not necessarily hateful and willing to go and murder innocent people - and therefore haven't necessarily had something bad happen in their lives. They just got brainwashed by IS propaganda and were convinced to join them.
And I'll be extremely generous here and show you anyway. One of the girls who joined IS had their mother get cancer, that constitutes to what I'm talking about. I'm guessing in your hate-filled rage, you didn't actually do your homework.
"Begum's mother was diagnosed with terminal lung cancer in 2013 and told she had only six months left to live"
I'm willing to bet £500 that if this hadn't happened, she wouldn't have done this.
Virtually every single case of western nationals who are Muslims committing terrorist attacks always have something traumatic happen in their life in the run-up to the attack they commit. But you still think that Islam is the primary cause.
I blocked QE2 ages ago, but I'll visit his point. The reason that a lot people who have traumatic events in their lives don't become radicalised is because none of them have extremist groups supporting their hatred. An angry, hateful Muslim has IS who are willing to justify and politicise their hatred into anti-west sentiment. The average white person in the UK, or a Hindu or a Buddhist does not have this same thing. That's why.
You're still the bigot, unfortunately. And you made false claims about these three girls "having nothing go wrong in their lives".
Original post by alevelstresss
Read my damned posts. I am talking about people who go and commit terrorist attacks, not a bunch of three harmless girls who go and marry an IS fighter. There is a massive difference, because the latter are not necessarily hateful and willing to go and murder innocent people - and therefore haven't necessarily had something bad happen in their lives. They just got brainwashed by IS propaganda and were convinced to join them.
And I'll be extremely generous here and show you anyway. One of the girls who joined IS had their mother get cancer, that constitutes to what I'm talking about. I'm guessing in your hate-filled rage, you didn't actually do your homework.
"Begum's mother was diagnosed with terminal lung cancer in 2013 and told she had only six months left to live"
I'm willing to bet £500 that if this hadn't happened, she wouldn't have done this.
Virtually every single case of western nationals who are Muslims committing terrorist attacks always have something traumatic happen in their life in the run-up to the attack they commit. But you still think that Islam is the primary cause.
I blocked QE2 ages ago, but I'll visit his point. The reason that a lot people who have traumatic events in their lives don't become radicalised is because none of them have extremist groups supporting their hatred. An angry, hateful Muslim has IS who are willing to justify and politicise their hatred into anti-west sentiment. The average white person in the UK, or a Hindu or a Buddhist does not have this same thing. That's why.
You're still the bigot, unfortunately. And you made false claims about these three girls "having nothing go wrong in their lives".
And I'll be extremely generous here and show you anyway. One of the girls who joined IS had their mother get cancer, that constitutes to what I'm talking about. I'm guessing in your hate-filled rage, you didn't actually do your homework.
"Begum's mother was diagnosed with terminal lung cancer in 2013 and told she had only six months left to live"
I'm willing to bet £500 that if this hadn't happened, she wouldn't have done this.
Virtually every single case of western nationals who are Muslims committing terrorist attacks always have something traumatic happen in their life in the run-up to the attack they commit. But you still think that Islam is the primary cause.
I blocked QE2 ages ago, but I'll visit his point. The reason that a lot people who have traumatic events in their lives don't become radicalised is because none of them have extremist groups supporting their hatred. An angry, hateful Muslim has IS who are willing to justify and politicise their hatred into anti-west sentiment. The average white person in the UK, or a Hindu or a Buddhist does not have this same thing. That's why.
You're still the bigot, unfortunately. And you made false claims about these three girls "having nothing go wrong in their lives".
What about all the others I named then? I love the way you dismiss those that actually go to Syria and join ISIS *as harmless.
People who have relatives with cancer are hateful and politicised, are they? I have relatives with cancer, and know many people who have, yet they are all, without exception, normal people and not full of hate.
Original post by Good bloke
What about all the others I named then? I love the way you dismiss those that actually go to Syria and join ISIS *as harmless.
People who have relatives with cancer are hateful and politicised, are they? I have relatives with cancer, and know many people who have, yet they are all, without exception, normal people and not full of hate.
People who have relatives with cancer are hateful and politicised, are they? I have relatives with cancer, and know many people who have, yet they are all, without exception, normal people and not full of hate.
re-read my post, I explained it here:
The reason that a lot people who have traumatic events in their lives don't become radicalised is because none of them have extremist groups supporting their hatred. An angry, hateful Muslim has IS who are willing to justify and politicise their hatred into anti-west sentiment. The average white person in the UK, or a Hindu or a Buddhist does not have this same thing. That's why.
But let's be honest, some of your hatred, which may or may not derive from your relative(s) having cancer, is concentrated into your evident anti-Muslim sentiment online. You would not laboriously spend hours every single day ranting about Islam on a student forum if something wasn't wrong with your life. People politicise their hatred because it feels good to put other races/religions at blame for your faults. I have no doubt that groups like Britain First, the BNP or EDL have acted similarly to ISIS in this manner - but since none of those three groups call for bombings/attacks, its only a fraction of the case with hateful Muslims sympathising with ISIS.
And two or three odd case studies don't mean anything. Every single terrorist who attacked the west "in the name of ISIS" had something go wrong in their life in the run up to it. That is a fact, that is some three to four dozen people, two odd cases, who aren't technically terrorists, does not change the dynamic of the situation.
If I were you, I'd walk away from this.
Original post by alevelstresss
Islam is simply the veil behind which these murderers feel better about their hateful actions.
Why these murderers feel better only with Islam? Maybe because they are Muslims?
Original post by admonit
Why these murderers feel better only with Islam? Maybe because they are Muslims?
they don't feel better with Islam, they feel better with extremist, warped Islam that ISIS purports/encourages
Original post by alevelstresss
re-read my post, I explained it here:
The reason that a lot people who have traumatic events in their lives don't become radicalised is because none of them have extremist groups supporting their hatred. An angry, hateful Muslim has IS who are willing to justify and politicise their hatred into anti-west sentiment. The average white person in the UK, or a Hindu or a Buddhist does not have this same thing. That's why.
But let's be honest, some of your hatred, which may or may not derive from your relative(s) having cancer, is concentrated into your evident anti-Muslim sentiment online. You would not laboriously spend hours every single day ranting about Islam on a student forum if something wasn't wrong with your life. People politicise their hatred because it feels good to put other races/religions at blame for your faults. I have no doubt that groups like Britain First, the BNP or EDL have acted similarly to ISIS in this manner - but since none of those three groups call for bombings/attacks, its only a fraction of the case with hateful Muslims sympathising with ISIS.
And two or three odd case studies don't mean anything. Every single terrorist who attacked the west "in the name of ISIS" had something go wrong in their life in the run up to it. That is a fact, that is some three to four dozen people, two odd cases, who aren't technically terrorists, does not change the dynamic of the situation.
If I were you, I'd walk away from this.
The reason that a lot people who have traumatic events in their lives don't become radicalised is because none of them have extremist groups supporting their hatred. An angry, hateful Muslim has IS who are willing to justify and politicise their hatred into anti-west sentiment. The average white person in the UK, or a Hindu or a Buddhist does not have this same thing. That's why.
But let's be honest, some of your hatred, which may or may not derive from your relative(s) having cancer, is concentrated into your evident anti-Muslim sentiment online. You would not laboriously spend hours every single day ranting about Islam on a student forum if something wasn't wrong with your life. People politicise their hatred because it feels good to put other races/religions at blame for your faults. I have no doubt that groups like Britain First, the BNP or EDL have acted similarly to ISIS in this manner - but since none of those three groups call for bombings/attacks, its only a fraction of the case with hateful Muslims sympathising with ISIS.
And two or three odd case studies don't mean anything. Every single terrorist who attacked the west "in the name of ISIS" had something go wrong in their life in the run up to it. That is a fact, that is some three to four dozen people, two odd cases, who aren't technically terrorists, does not change the dynamic of the situation.
If I were you, I'd walk away from this.
I am guessing your obvious anger comes from your traumatic A levels.
Original post by Good bloke
I am guessing your obvious anger comes from your traumatic A levels.
My traumatic A-levels? Hahahah, I just got into Warwick university for physics with AAA in maths, further maths and physics respectively.
I'm guessing this is your defeat, goodbye. Should I block you too? Because you ALWAYS give up in the end.
Original post by alevelstresss
Yes I did, read my post, there isn't a single case of Islamic terrorism where the perpetrator doesn't have something ****** happen to their lives.
There isn't a single person on the entire planet who doesn't have $hit happen to their lives.
Suffering and trauma and sadness are an inevitable concomitant of the human condition. If you are lucky enough not to have experienced that yet good, but trust me, you will.
Original post by generallee
There isn't a single person on the entire planet who doesn't have $hit happen to their lives.
Suffering and trauma and sadness are an inevitable concomitant of the human condition. If you are lucky enough not to have experienced that yet good, but trust me, you will.
Suffering and trauma and sadness are an inevitable concomitant of the human condition. If you are lucky enough not to have experienced that yet good, but trust me, you will.
Read my posts before you make unwarranted attacks on me.
The only reason Muslims have the capacity to be radicalised is because they have groups like ISIS which politicise their anger into anti-western, anti-democracy, pro-terrorism sentiment.
Original post by alevelstresss
Read my posts before you make unwarranted attacks on me.
The only reason Muslims have the capacity to be radicalised is because they have groups like ISIS which politicise their anger into anti-western, anti-democracy, pro-terrorism sentiment.
The only reason Muslims have the capacity to be radicalised is because they have groups like ISIS which politicise their anger into anti-western, anti-democracy, pro-terrorism sentiment.
Yeah you are right.
ONLY Muslims have $hit happen to them. No-one else has parents who have cancer, or problems with being gay, or disagreements over foreign policy, or psychological conditions.
That is why we have such a problem with Islamic terrorism. Only poor old, persecuted by the west, Muslims, have these challenges.
.
I'd say this article in the Telegraph is worth a read. It's from a bloke who was radicalised but then saw the light & renounced terrorism.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/thinking-man/i-believed-al-qaeda-when-they-said-911-was-justified-15-years-on/
An interesting snippet: "Many “experts” today believe that it is anger at the West’s foreign policy towards the Muslim world that drives the young to become jihadists; I see it differently.For me, these youngsters, are instead articulating a pre-existing anger and animosity, whether it is to do with child abuse or trauma, a lack of integration and assimilation, or socio-economic grievances. The foreign policy grievance is simply something that allows them to release tensions held deep within them."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/thinking-man/i-believed-al-qaeda-when-they-said-911-was-justified-15-years-on/
An interesting snippet: "Many “experts” today believe that it is anger at the West’s foreign policy towards the Muslim world that drives the young to become jihadists; I see it differently.For me, these youngsters, are instead articulating a pre-existing anger and animosity, whether it is to do with child abuse or trauma, a lack of integration and assimilation, or socio-economic grievances. The foreign policy grievance is simply something that allows them to release tensions held deep within them."
Original post by alevelstresss
The only reason Muslims have the capacity to be radicalised is because they have groups like ISIS which politicise their anger into anti-western, anti-democracy, pro-terrorism sentiment.
The only reason Muslims have the capacity to be radicalised is because they have groups like ISIS which politicise their anger into anti-western, anti-democracy, pro-terrorism sentiment.
ISIS as they have made clear in their own newspaper, are not specifically anti-west. They are pro-Islam, and against anyone who does not agree with them. The source of the radicalisation is Islam itself, and ISIS (literalist radicals themselves) seek to create a worldwide Islamic caliphate, building on a Middle Eastern base.
Nearly every person in the world has a tragedy or trauma in their life. Just a few are superstitious enough to believe the radical seventh century Islamic religio-political nonsense they are fed and to follow it up with violence or an attempt at it. The only major religion that overtly seeks to dominate the world, based on its scriptures, is Islam. It is the only religion that has the capacity to radicalise people in this way. And it is doing so.
Original post by generallee
Yeah you are right.
ONLY Muslims have $hit happen to them. No-one else has parents who have cancer, or problems with being gay, or disagreements over foreign policy, or psychological conditions.
That is why we have such a problem with Islamic terrorism. Only poor old, persecuted by the west, Muslims, have these challenges.
.
ONLY Muslims have $hit happen to them. No-one else has parents who have cancer, or problems with being gay, or disagreements over foreign policy, or psychological conditions.
That is why we have such a problem with Islamic terrorism. Only poor old, persecuted by the west, Muslims, have these challenges.
.
Either grow up or fix your reading impairment
Everyone has **** happen to them, but only Muslims have an extremist group which has the capacity to politicise their hateful feelings into a will to commit terrorist atrocities in their name.
I've got an impression that you have an argument because either both sides oversimplify, or there is on an understanding problem.
In shortage: Islam is not the only problem behind this terrorist groups, neither difficulties in terrorist's lifes.
We should start from the fact that terrorism is a very flawed action. Now, what kind of failure causes this sort of action? I think we shall agree, that flawed actions are caused by cognitive failures. And where does those come from? If we look at criminal docrines, such as Nazism or Bolshevism, all share following features:
-looking for evidence that supports presumed idea (which is opposite to Popper's philosohy of science)
-ignoring contradictory evidence
-logical flaws
Same features aplly to actions of people who received bad education or no education at all. Same apllies to religious doctrines.
Particular results, are dependant on different systems/inputs that faced particular person, and that made this person's view and style of thinking what it is.
We may instist on blaming that or another source of extremism, but in the end the basis is the same. We should not blame Islam for everthing in current terrorism, but certainly it is one of particular reasons that allthogether gives misconception, prejudice, flaws, stupidity overall that causes this sort of behaviour.
In shortage: Islam is not the only problem behind this terrorist groups, neither difficulties in terrorist's lifes.
We should start from the fact that terrorism is a very flawed action. Now, what kind of failure causes this sort of action? I think we shall agree, that flawed actions are caused by cognitive failures. And where does those come from? If we look at criminal docrines, such as Nazism or Bolshevism, all share following features:
-looking for evidence that supports presumed idea (which is opposite to Popper's philosohy of science)
-ignoring contradictory evidence
-logical flaws
Same features aplly to actions of people who received bad education or no education at all. Same apllies to religious doctrines.
Particular results, are dependant on different systems/inputs that faced particular person, and that made this person's view and style of thinking what it is.
We may instist on blaming that or another source of extremism, but in the end the basis is the same. We should not blame Islam for everthing in current terrorism, but certainly it is one of particular reasons that allthogether gives misconception, prejudice, flaws, stupidity overall that causes this sort of behaviour.
Original post by PTMalewski
We should start from the fact that terrorism is a very flawed action.
We should start from the fact that terrorism is a very flawed action.
I agree with everything else that you say, including this, but terrorists have never seen the method as flawed. I'm not sure why but they do not mind killing people to make a political or religious point, even if it entrenches opposition. Maybe it is because they know they really don't have community support and have nothing to lose.
A bigger question, for me, is why western-educated people (with or without bad times in their lives) are prepared to believe preposterous superstitions from the seventh century that are clearly not relevant to our lives in the west now, and to use violence to further them. Is there a chemical or hormonal imbalance, or a genetic predisposition to believe or to do such things?
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