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Didn't convert internship to FT offer - apply to internships or grad?

I interned at a BB (one of the American ones) this summer and didn't convert for S&T and was wondering whether it is wiser to apply for grad or intern programmes. I did consider applying for grad consulting roles but I know it's really not for me so I don't want to waste my time. However, I do want a job after I graduate even if I don't convert the next summer...

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Original post by yl95
I interned at a BB (one of the American ones) this summer and didn't convert for S&T and was wondering whether it is wiser to apply for grad or intern programmes. I did consider applying for grad consulting roles but I know it's really not for me so I don't want to waste my time. However, I do want a job after I graduate even if I don't convert the next summer...


I would mix it up: some off cycle, some summer, some grad. Maybe grad for some lower tier banks, and the rest internships.

May as well give other jobs a look too, especially data science/analytics stuff, quant trading etc since you're doing maths.


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Reply 2
Original post by yl95
I interned at a BB (one of the American ones) this summer and didn't convert for S&T and was wondering whether it is wiser to apply for grad or intern programmes. I did consider applying for grad consulting roles but I know it's really not for me so I don't want to waste my time. However, I do want a job after I graduate even if I don't convert the next summer...


I am applying for s&t summer internships too. Im sorry to hear you were unable to convert it into a ft job. What do you think you did wrong?
Original post by Princepieman
I would mix it up: some off cycle, some summer, some grad. Maybe grad for some lower tier banks, and the rest internships.

May as well give other jobs a look too, especially data science/analytics stuff, quant trading etc since you're doing maths.


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Quant really doesn't interest me at all haha. Yeah was thinking grad for lower tier.

I had a really good review from second team but somehow he wrote that I 'lack anaiytlcal skills and proactivity' which is weird because he said that I am analytical and am switched on...
Original post by Gman786
I am applying for s&t summer internships too. Im sorry to hear you were unable to convert it into a ft job. What do you think you did wrong?


I could have been more confident in general and I think I could have shown more enthusiasm in markets Otherwise I just don't think I was a good fit for my first team (the manager literally only hires Masters students) and they all spoke French to each other. Shame as I like the actual role. I wasn't as proactive in the first desk as my second one but I don't think that was enough for the overall picture - my manager from my second desk never saw my work as he was busy the whole time. Also my presentation wasn't great but some of the questions I wasn't able to answer for legit reasons...(I did Structuring; my questions were from salespeople)

Having said that I did actually like the firm and S&T; I just think I was slow at the start, partly due to my non-finance background and going straight into exotics.
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by yl95
Quant really doesn't interest me at all haha. Yeah was thinking grad for lower tier.

I had a really good review from second team but somehow he wrote that I 'lack anaiytlcal skills and proactivity' which is weird because he said that I am analytical and am switched on...


I could have been more confident in general and I think I could have shown more enthusiasm in markets Otherwise I just don't think I was a good fit for my first team (the manager literally only hires Masters students) and they all spoke French to each other. Shame as I like the actual role. I wasn't as proactive in the first desk as my second one but I don't think that was enough for the overall picture - my manager from my second desk never saw my work as he was busy the whole time. Also my presentation wasn't great but some of the questions I wasn't able to answer for legit reasons...(I did Structuring; my questions were from salespeople)

Having said that I did actually like the firm and S&T; I just think I was slow at the start, partly due to my non-finance background and going straight into exotics.

My advice spwould be to just apply again for internships.

Out of interests, what desks did you intern at?
Original post by yl95
Quant really doesn't interest me at all haha. Yeah was thinking grad for lower tier.

I had a really good review from second team but somehow he wrote that I 'lack anaiytlcal skills and proactivity' which is weird because he said that I am analytical and am switched on...



Ahh, fair enough, still plenty of options!

Maybe it was just a mismatch in culture for the desk? Have no idea why you would get rated the exact opposite to what was said to you.

I could have been more confident in general and I think I could have shown more enthusiasm in markets Otherwise I just don't think I was a good fit for my first team (the manager literally only hires Masters students) and they all spoke French to each other. Shame as I like the actual role. I wasn't as proactive in the first desk as my second one but I don't think that was enough for the overall picture - my manager from my second desk never saw my work as he was busy the whole time. Also my presentation wasn't great but some of the questions I wasn't able to answer for legit reasons...(I did Structuring; my questions were from salespeople)

Having said that I did actually like the firm and S&T; I just think I was slow at the start, partly due to my non-finance background and going straight into exotics.


I just think it was external market factors really, seems to be low conversion rates overall in S&T across banks this year.. The above doesn't sound like a deathwish tbh lol

And I'm doubtful being from a nonfinance background had much sway.

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(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by Princepieman
Ahh, fair enough, still plenty of options!

Maybe it was just a mismatch in culture for the desk? Have no idea why you would get rated the exact opposite to what was said to you.



I just think it was external market factors really, seems to be low conversion rates overall in S&T across banks this year.. The above doesn't sound like a deathwish tbh lol

And I'm doubtful being from a nonfinance background had much sway.

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I'm not sure about the actual conversion rate but the bank I was interning at's conversion rate was >50% for sure.
I mean as in having done finance would have put me at an advantage in terms of background knowledge.
Definitely apply for a few non-banking roles to ensure you end up with an offer for something.

Maybe even look into doing an MSc.

Apply to summer for American Banks, grad for the others and off-cycle for those that offer it.

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Definitely apply to some grad schemes. Why would they have them if they only hire summer interns? Those are clearly there for people who haven't converted their SA and are looking for grad roles. You will have a pretty good shot at DB, Barclays, UBS etc.
apply to summers again, unlucky this time around

Original post by alexjones1994
Definitely apply to some grad schemes. Why would they have them if they only hire summer interns? Those are clearly there for people who haven't converted their SA and are looking for grad roles. You will have a pretty good shot at DB, Barclays, UBS etc.


no they're for people with offers looking to make a switch in terms of better banks tbh
Original post by gr8wizard10
apply to summers again, unlucky this time around



no they're for people with offers looking to make a switch in terms of better banks tbh


Ah yeah. So GS who has their graduate scheme open is looking for people who are coming from better banks. Remind me which banks they would be again? This guy has already got a S&T from a BB. Thats as good as it gets.
Original post by alexjones1994
Ah yeah. So GS who has their graduate scheme open is looking for people who are coming from better banks. Remind me which banks they would be again? This guy has already got a S&T from a BB. Thats as good as it gets.


people who want to switch to better banks with grad offers alex :smile:

this girl has told us she hasn't recieved an offer
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by gr8wizard10
people who want to switch to better banks with grad offers alex :smile:

this girl has told us she hasn't recieved an offer


So if you were to put a graduate application into say... UBS for instance they would ask 'Are you holding a current graduate offer?' As their first question would they? If this is the case I stand corrected.

She/ he has already done an internship at a BB. Everyone also applying to those gradschemes will also have done an internship. She is in the same boat as everyone else applying surely?

I'm not trying to be argumentative btw, i'm well aware you are more knowledgeable in this area having already completed an internship and converted but I fail to see your logic atm.
Original post by alexjones1994
So if you were to put a graduate application into say... UBS for instance they would ask 'Are you holding a current graduate offer?' As their first question would they? If this is the case I stand corrected.

She/ he has already done an internship at a BB. Everyone also applying to those gradschemes will also have done an internship. She is in the same boat as everyone else applying surely?

I'm not trying to be argumentative btw, i'm well aware you are more knowledgeable in this area having already completed an internship and converted but I fail to see your logic atm.


they would see you have an offer and more often than not you'll be asked whether you've converted it/or why you didn't covert if you get to interview stage. similar with headhunters who would ask first whether you've converted your offer, as you have better leverage and are already seen as a compotent candidate given these grad places are very limited in numbrers.. taking on single digits a lot of the time.

so the competitive parties are those who already hold offers at banks looking to move banks to either switch to a better bank or change divisions.

doing an internship =/= getting an offer..

whilst it's great to have done an internship, converting it shows you are ready to work and have been vouched for as a good candidate.. having done an internship will certainly help in getting another internship offer but the bank she was at doesn't think she's quite ready/suited/motivated for the grad placement. so it makes sense to retry for internships. whilst she can apply for grad places (and most certainly have a shot of getting them), it's very very unlikely and it would waste a chance of applying to a summer intership for the firm in the same period.

personally i'd recommend (if at all possible) apply for interships and do a masters (preferably in finance if certain that's the field of interest)
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by gr8wizard10
they would see you have an offer and more often than not you'll be asked whether you've converted it/or why you didn't covert if you get to interview stage. similar with headhunters who would ask first whether you've converted your offer, as you have better leverage and are already seen as a compotent candidate given these grad places are very limited in numbrers.. taking on single digits a lot of the time.

so the competitive parties are those who already hold offers at banks looking to move banks to either switch to a better bank or change divisions.

doing an internship =/= getting an offer..

whilst it's great to have done an internship, converting it shows you are ready to work and have been vouched for as a good candidate.. having done an internship will certainly help in getting another internship offer but the bank she was at doesn't think she's quite ready/suited/motivated for the grad placement. so it makes sense to retry for internships. whilst she can apply for grad places (and most certainly have a shot of getting them), it's very very unlikely and it would waste a chance of applying to a summer intership for the firm in the same period.

personally i'd recommend (if at all possible) apply for interships and do a masters (preferably in finance if certain that's the field of interest)


Ah okay. I get where you are coming from now, thanks. Man, banking is harsh. Basically convert or start again.
Original post by gr8wizard10
they would see you have an offer and more often than not you'll be asked whether you've converted it/or why you didn't covert if you get to interview stage. similar with headhunters who would ask first whether you've converted your offer, as you have better leverage and are already seen as a compotent candidate given these grad places are very limited in numbrers.. taking on single digits a lot of the time.

so the competitive parties are those who already hold offers at banks looking to move banks to either switch to a better bank or change divisions.

doing an internship =/= getting an offer..

whilst it's great to have done an internship, converting it shows you are ready to work and have been vouched for as a good candidate.. having done an internship will certainly help in getting another internship offer but the bank she was at doesn't think she's quite ready/suited/motivated for the grad placement. so it makes sense to retry for internships. whilst she can apply for grad places (and most certainly have a shot of getting them), it's very very unlikely and it would waste a chance of applying to a summer intership for the firm in the same period.

personally i'd recommend (if at all possible) apply for interships and do a masters (preferably in finance if certain that's the field of interest)


Yeah, was planning on applying for internships for most. What's your view on applying for grad for MMs though?
Original post by yl95
Yeah, was planning on applying for internships for most. What's your view on applying for grad for MMs though?


go for it, if you're willing to take the risk and be content there
Original post by gr8wizard10
go for it, if you're willing to take the risk and be content there


Would you say, in the unlikely case that I get a grad offer from a MM and an internship from a BB, that it's worth accepting both (not sure if that's allowed)?
Original post by yl95
Would you say, in the unlikely case that I get a grad offer from a MM and an internship from a BB, that it's worth accepting both (not sure if that's allowed)?


they would overlap from my understanding and I'm pretty sure in the contract you wouldn't be allowed to work elsewhere
Original post by gr8wizard10
they would overlap from my understanding and I'm pretty sure in the contract you wouldn't be allowed to work elsewhere


Which one would you choose?

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