Niqab wearer asked to leave restaurant in Germany

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Reply 140

BaconandSauce

Original post by Saba XD

Ahhh, I didn't know that. Learn something new everyday. :biggrin:

as should we all!

Reply 141

The Epicurean

Original post by Saba XD

This is coming from a Muslim (me). As a Muslim, why would this lady even go to a bar/restaurant? Doesn't make sense to me. She could have gone to a halal restaurant, I mean all she wanted was a burger, right?

I'm a Muslim so I wouldn't go to a bar/restaurant even though I don't wear a niqab or hijab, still I'd go to a halal joint. Maybe that's just me. :dontknow:

There was apparently a festival going on (the Festival of Light, whatever that is), so she may have been there possibly for the festival only as opposed to the food and drink. However, the issue seems to have possibly been security related. Normally at festivals where there are large numbers of people, security is more strict. The BBC reports that "Mr Schulz said he had asked her to show her face" which wouldn't be an unusual request in a space with a large volume of people.

Reply 142

Saba XD

Original post by alexschmalex

I don't think you get what I'm trying to say here, I'm simply trying to see it from your point of view. You're saying she's a victim of her religion, and I actually do agree with that. What I'm saying is, knowing that she's a victim, how exactly does it help to make her even more of a victim? You say that it shows that the west won't stand for it, to me I think it's just as (if not waaaaay more) likely to make them think western culture isn't something she should want to integrate with. You don't turn away an abuse victim just because they reminds you of what they go through and you want to show that you won't tolerate it, do you?

You say reform but basically you're just trying to force them to be like "us", and since when do we have the right to do that? It's just as alien them as theirs is to us. If a woman from here went to the Middle East for holiday, went to a restaurant and was handed a burqa and told to wear it or leave, would you still say that they have the right to treat her that way because it's their country? You won't change anyones mind or ways if you don't show them at least an ounce of respect and common courtesy. Their lifestyle may be different than ours but that shouldn't mean we should treat them as subhuman savages who are too stupid to see our 'illuminated ways'. But what do I know, I'm just a random dude on the internet :rolleyes:

I agree with that wholeheartedly. But, then again she went to a pub. I guess that is what makes a difference for me as a Muslim. I wouldn't go to a pub.

Reply 143

Jee1

Original post by Josb

How can you even eat with a niqab on?

Glad to see that some Germans are still able to stand against the Islamic invasion.

You just lift it up slightly then take a bit from the food, I've watched women eating with a Niqab on it's not a big deal unless you're a racist

Reply 144

macromicro

Original post by alexschmalex

Multiculturalism is failing with this method - and it's been given a long time to prove itself, culminating in Brexit (and Trump). There is no integration at all because our values are opposite ends of the scale. The UK is having a long surge of feminism and yet we have female muslims in niqabs demanding to wear them on private property. It's oil and water. The best reformation is actually happening with UK-born muslims who increasingly do not agree with headwear and will go to non-halal places (but not partake). A lot of progress is being made in that sense. Upholding western values rather than succumbing to religion, is actually a new method, and I think will in the long-run cause muslims to adapt. They certainly haven't adapted with the approach of the past decade which you advocate.

Original post by alexschmalex

You say reform but basically you're just trying to force them to be like "us", and since when do we have the right to do that?

That's the end goal, although "force" is the wrong word. Not allowing for religious privilege isn't force, it's secular equality and often an issue of security (Germany is a high-threat level country remember). The difference between the east and west in terms of human rights, political stability, social progression, intellectual contribution, religious extremism, etc. is astronomical. Of course we want the east to be more like the west. Don't you?

Original post by alexschmalex

If a woman from here went to the Middle East for holiday, went to a restaurant and was handed a burqa and told to wear it or leave, would you still say that they have the right to treat her that way because it's their country?

As it's their private business, yes. We can't impose rules on private business to accept custom. I assure you Saudi Arabia does a lot worse than that.

Original post by alexschmalex

You won't change anyones mind or ways if you don't show them at least an ounce of respect and common courtesy. Their lifestyle may be different than ours but that shouldn't mean we should treat them as subhuman savages who are too stupid to see our 'illuminated ways'. But what do I know, I'm just a random dude on the internet :rolleyes:

Who has treated them as "subhuman savages"? All he did was impose a clothing requirement, which is nothing unusual for private establishments.

Reply 145

macromicro

Original post by Jee1

You just lift it up slightly then take a bit from the food, I've watched women eating with a Niqab on it's not a big deal unless you're a racist

Muslims aren't a race.

Reply 146

EdwardBarfield9

Original post by Jee1

You just lift it up slightly then take a bit from the food, I've watched women eating with a Niqab on it's not a big deal unless you're a racist

No. Muslims are not a race. And if you want to cry "Islamaphobia" then cry "Jewishphobia", "Christianityphobia" etc. The backwards, barbaric religion of islam is not above critisism. In fact, I believe it should be the one we criticise more than most. All religions do bad stuff but islam seems to be the worst.

Reply 147

BaconandSauce

Original post by Saba XD

I wouldn't go to a pub.

not even for a soft drink with friends?

Reply 148

KingBradly

Original post by NimcoA

Why do you care so much?

Because I strongly dislike it.

Reply 149

Jee1

Original post by EdwardBarfield9

YOU ARE HATING A GROUP OF PEOPLE BECAUSE OF WHAT THEY BELIEVE IN.
It's like thinking you don't want to sit down next to Mohammed on the bus because he's a muslim

Reply 150

KingBradly

Original post by Jee1

YOU ARE HATING A GROUP OF PEOPLE BECAUSE OF WHAT THEY BELIEVE IN.
It's like thinking you don't want to sit down next to Mohammed on the bus because he's a muslim

I'm sure there's plenty of groups you hate or at least strongly dislike because of what they believe in.

Reply 151

Josb

Original post by Jee1

You just lift it up slightly then take a bit from the food, I've watched women eating with a Niqab on it's not a big deal unless you're a racist

Yeah, right.

Reply 152

EdwardBarfield9

Original post by Jee1

YOU ARE HATING A GROUP OF PEOPLE BECAUSE OF WHAT THEY BELIEVE IN.
It's like thinking you don't want to sit down next to Mohammed on the bus because he's a muslim

I do not hate all muslims. I hate the religion. I dislike most religions. It still does not make me racist. Racisim is about RACE (White, Black, Asian, etc), not RELIGION.

Reply 153

BaconandSauce

Original post by Jee1

YOU ARE HATING A GROUP OF PEOPLE BECAUSE OF WHAT THEY BELIEVE IN.

What's wrong with that?

Reply 154

EdwardBarfield9

Original post by BaconandSauce

What's wrong with that?

Original post by Jee1

YOU ARE HATING A GROUP OF PEOPLE BECAUSE OF WHAT THEY BELIEVE IN.

Nothing wrong with that. People hate the KKK for what they believe in. Should people not hate them? What about ISIS, or the Political party opposite of each persons own political views?

Reply 155

slaven

There is a security reason why the owner did rational. You can never if a bomb is hide beneath a niqab or some guns. Giving all the recent attacks in Europe one must take it account when dealing with the niqab.

Reply 156

1010marina

Original post by Iridocyclitis

There is the right to freedom of religion which is separate to other rights!

Why is it separate? Where do we draw the line?

Reply 157

AperfectBalance

If I or a woman came into a restaurant with a ski mask or a balaclava on I would expect to be asked to take it off and rightly so. the only problem is that it is associated with a religion. But in many places I would not want Anyone, man or woman Black or white Muslim or christian to be covering their face without a seriously good reason in places like schools, hospitals or banks. I would even be disconcerted being served by anyone covering their face.

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 158

uberteknik

Original post by Saba XD

I agree with that wholeheartedly. But, then again she went to a pub. I guess that is what makes a difference for me as a Muslim. I wouldn't go to a pub.

Exactly. From a courtesy perspectivee it would be like an atheist visiting a mosque and then refusing to remove their shoes.

As others have stated, this appears to be someone who had the intent of stirring trouble.

May as well have worn a Klu Klux Klan head gear and sat in predominately blacks gay bar and then cited human rights violations when asked to leave.

Reply 159

slaven

Original post by Jee1

YOU ARE HATING A GROUP OF PEOPLE BECAUSE OF WHAT THEY BELIEVE IN.
It's like thinking you don't want to sit down next to Mohammed on the bus because he's a muslim

I personally do not see a problem with this. If Mohammed believes that apostates should be killed or that non-muslims are less worths than it is more than fine to not sit next to Mohammed.