Follower of the Religion of peace stabs man to death over "religious argument"

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Reply 40

Ua3142

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(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 41

fksociety

Original post by BaconandSauce

No wrong

I know Muslims who drink, I know Muslim women who have partners who are not Muslims, muslims in sexual relationships who are not married, Muslims who gamble, Muslims who smoke weed and even the odd gay Muslim

The one thing they all have in common is they ARE Muslim.

So your mockery of the "religion of peace" is actually you mocking those who don't religiously follow the faith and aren't true muslims? Or do you still have the irrational need to find an easy solution to the problem and blame the entire religion?

(Fyi, the former is the smart option)

Reply 42

BaconandSauce

Original post by fksociety

no it's mostly me mocking the religion of peace :biggrin:

(it is after all the faith that just keeps giving)

But there's nothing irrational about that :biggrin:

Reply 43

fksociety

Original post by BaconandSauce

no it's mostly me mocking the religion of peace :biggrin:

(it is after all the faith that just keeps giving)

But there's nothing irrational about that :biggrin:

Perhaps there is issues with Islam (given that there are undoubtedly violent verses within the quran)

But when these extremists do things that aren't condoned by the religions it is clear that the problem is the deep indoctrination of a religion with ancient morals different to the present days.

What im trying to say is, the issue is the indoctrination of violent versions of Islam e.g. Wahhabism. (Im not an expert so do correct me lol)

Reply 44

BaconandSauce

Original post by fksociety

Perhaps there is issues with Islam (given that there are undoubtedly violent verses within the quran)

There are and there is no denying this

Original post by fksociety

But when these extremists do things that aren't condoned by the religions it is clear that the problem is the deep indoctrination of a religion with ancient morals different to the present days.

And when they do things that at condoned by the faith? such as the issue of sex slaves and the sanctioned rape of women and children. what then?

Original post by fksociety

What im trying to say is, the issue is the indoctrination of violent versions of Islam e.g. Wahhabism. (Im not an expert so do correct me lol)

The violent verse's exist in all branches of Islam the issues as you say is with those who choose follow them.

But they are they and they exist and they cause real life problems

This makes the religion of peace work mocking don't you think?

Reply 45

Plantagenet Crown

What's disgusting is the way Islam tries to cling onto the "religion of peace" epithet when it's completely undeserved and there are many other religions out there that fit that quality much better.

Reply 46

fksociety

Original post by BaconandSauce

There are and there is no denying this

And when they do things that at condoned by the faith? such as the issue of sex slaves and the sanctioned rape of women and children. what then?

The violent verse's exist in all branches of Islam the issues as you say is with those who choose follow them.

But they are they and they exist and they cause real life problems

This makes the religion of peace work mocking don't you think?

Yes, I think this is the problem. The liberal media and the stigma associate with criticising Islam hasnt even got to the point where the issue has been highlighted.

Surely criticising the entire religion is a little irrational? I mean, as you said, muslims who drink are still considered muslims. And muslims have attempted to Isolate themselves from the extremists. Whilst you are informed, many of the anti islam bigotry is through the fallacious correlation=causation fallacy and liberal islam still exists.

I think we should focus our criticism on the conservative Islam and work to find a solution. After all, Islam is growing.

Reply 47

QE2

Original post by Ua3142

New York Police say a Muslim woman whose traditional clothing was set alight in a suspected hate crime was a Scottish tourist visiting Manhattan.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/new-york-police-scottish-muslim-woman-fire-dress-attack-a7254891.html

Deranged people do exist, regardless of religion.

What's "deranged" about a Scottish person visiting Manhattan, Muslim or not?

Reply 48

QE2

Original post by Ua3142

I get you, but it's simply not as easy as pointing a finger at a religion and saying 'ISLAM IS A RELIGION OF WAR!!'

But it is as simple as saying that Islam is a religion of peace and violence, of tolerance and intolerance, of equality and discrimination.

Different people then simply cherry-pick scripture to suit their agenda and they level of modernisation and revisionism that they are prepared to accept.

Reply 49

QE2

Original post by ChuckNorriss

all the sources used in that vid dont apply to me (different school of thought) + author of source (ibn kathir) used was mainly influenced by wahabi/salafi ideology (basically isis) by the likes of ibn taymiyyah and ibn qayyim + no source for historical context.

https://youtu.be/9PPthd_RfwM
37:35-39:55
explains 9:5 if you're interested.

Posted from TSR Mobile

So, you are saying that his argument is technically valid, but just not for the particular madhab you follow.

BTW, Ibn Kathir cannot have been influenced by wahabi/salafi ideology because he predates them. His tafsir is possibly the most widely used in the world, so his work clearly influences many millions of Muslims.

just make sure you are looking for the truth and not for reasons why islam is a religion of violence. It is not difficult to identify the violent passages of the Quran and sunnah. And the question must be again asked (as I have never received an answer) - if the Quran is the perfect and final guide for all humanity, why did Allah put in so much stuff that only relates to events in 7th century Arabia unless they were meant to be used as some kind of example or guide?
Thanks

Reply 50

QE2

Original post by ImNotReallyMe

At the time before Islam, people of the different tribes were living quite recklessly
So Islam came along, being a better way of living than the people before, it was therefore seen as more peaceful in comparison, hence 'religion of peace'

Now humans have developed even more, with better systems, and so now Islam seems barbaric to us

It was the religion of peace at its time, but not anymore

Haha! Rubbish!
Islam was never referred to as "the Religion of Peace" in the 7th century. The term originated with a book of the same name from 1930 and revived bost 9/11 by politicians like Bush, Obama and Cameron - I know, suprised, huh?
Is seems to have stemmed from the mistranslation of "Islam" as "peace", whereas it actually means "submission".

Before Islam, Mecca was a haven of multi-faith, multiculturalism and the region was free from major conflict (the Persian/Byzantine epic war usually taking place further north).
The idea that the inhabitants of the vast regions in Asia and North Africa conquered by invading Muslim armies, saw Islam as bringing "peace" is laughable. Certainly there was peace after the local armies had been defeated and the land occupied, but that doesn't really count, does it?

Reply 51

QE2

Original post by 1010marina

If you don't beat your wife or kill all the infidels then are you 'relevant' to Islam?

Saying "not a real Muslim" is a ridiculous argument...

Not wanting to seem pedantic, but the passage allowing Muslims to beat their wives is not a command but merely a permission, under certain conditions - so never beating your wife is not "unislamic" - but claiming that wife beating is forbidden would be.

Again, killing infidels would depend on certain conditions - essentially the refusal to submit to Islam, but some also believe that it requires the instruction from an authorised leader of an Islamic State or that it only applies in "Muslim lands". Although there are others who regard Allah and Muhammad as the ultimate Islamic leaders, and the entire world as "Muslim lands", in the same way as Islam claims that everyone os born Muslim and merely stray temporarily. So again, never killing an infidel is not unislamic, but condemning those who do (under the appropriate conditions) is.

On the other hand, the prohibition against alcohol is absolute, and is therefore different from simply being allowed to beat your wife, or encouraged to kill infidels (all under certain conditions, of course!)

Reply 52

QE2

Original post by Applepiex3

They might as well call it "THE MUSLIM ROOM (TMR)".

#iaintnomuslimbruv

Reply 53

QE2

Original post by Saba XD

This is what the OP said in a post. Isn't it the exact opposite of what you said? Or is there a difference which I am not able to tell?

You can't just pick and choose what applies to you and what doesn't. If Muhammed is truly a prophet then you should believe every thing he says, you can't call yourself a muslim if you doubt or disbelieve in him.

The only sin that Allah does not forgive is shirk.

So, drinking, fornicating, not praying, etc, do not make you a Not True Muslim. Only the rejection of Allah or Muhammad as his prophet would do that.

Reply 54

QE2

Original post by 11salmaa

You need to stop labelling all Muslims as bad people.

But nobody really does that.

If someone kill someone else there probably crazy or violent. However, if a 'Muslim' kills someone its automatically a terrorism attack.

But the attacker in this incident hasn't been labelled a terrorist.

Reply 55

Ua3142

Original post by QE2

...exactly, read the full post lol

Reply 56

QE2

Original post by Ua3142

...exactly, read the full post lol

I did. It was your use of the usual apologetics like putting Muslim and Islamic in inverted commas, saying "dodgy imams" and employing non sequiturs like "If Islam was to blame then why arent all muslims blowing themselves everyday?" that gave the impression that you were attempting to claim that Islamist extremism was somehow not predominantly motivated and justified Islam - when all the evidence shows that it clearly is. Especially when people interpret it in a literal way and reject modernisation and revisionism.

In short, absolutist, literalist, retentionist Islam = Islamist extremism.