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Help! Did something stupid on medical placement

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Not sure if serious?

I think perhaps Zippy's version of "Ward 13" is actually the pub rather than the mess/library/other wards, which I think is what the rest of you were treating it as. Pretty sure nobody here would think it's ok to be in the pub when you're meant to be at work!

Reply 81

twmffat_twp

Original post by nexttime

Not sure if serious?

Possibly a misinterpretation of "ward 13 in the 1970s", as back in the dark ages when junior doctors worked a thousand hours a week and bars serving alcohol at discounted rates were commonplace in doctors messes it was not unheard of for a junior doctor or two to slink off for a swift half while technically on duty. However, utterly hysterical in this modern day context as I have never, ever heard of any actual working doctor going off to the pub whilst on duty these days. Costa, in the hospital foyer, perhaps but certainly not the pub (and all the places I've worked there haven't been a Doctors mess, let alone one that serves alcohol....).

Of course you have to, and absolutely should, leave the ward (with your bleep) to do other educational stuff when the opportunity arises, as pretty much everybody except zippyRN has pointed out. Sometimes all the jobs for your team are geniunely done by the early afternoon, especially if its a quiet week when you're not on call and all your patients are stable- its a rare and beautiful moment when it happens, but it does happen occassionally and thats your only opportunity as a houseplant to crack out a few audits, go to theatre, study for your exam etc. Jeez, on days like that I've been actively encouraged to go home early by the nursing staff, fellow FYs and registrars because if there's nothing to do, there's nothing to do, and they've all seen me there running about three hours after I was meant to finish when its busy and there's important stuff to sort out. I think that the golden rule in medicine (undergrad and postqualification) is thou shalt not take the piss. If people know they can depend on you to do your job, they don't feel the need to scrutinise your every move.

I agree that the OP has been treated rather harshly. It was foolish of him (or her?) to lie, however I don't think it was any worse than that, and all the posturing about fitness to practice sounds a bit grandiose. I think that medical students are adults with a primary duty to educate themselves (not to deliver clinical care) and should therefore be free to structure their time as they see fit rather than be obliged to hang around a ward when their time would be better spent elsewhere. However, universities these days have an obligation to keep detailed attendance records for all students for visa and anti-terror stuff, and risk losing their right to sponsor international students for visas etc if their systems are found to be lacking. There was a mini-furore when I was a medical student as they ramped up the attendance monitoring for this very reason and we had to sign in at the undergrad office in the morning and as we left in the afternoon, so when we were on surgery for example we had to sign in by 8am and were not allowed to sign out before 4 regardless of what we were meant to be doing that day (eg we had to be in for 8 even if we were down to go for an endoscopy list that wouldnt get started til 9 30, and the hosptial was so rammed with students you couldn't just go on the ward round beforehand or something because another pair would be allocated to that). It was chaos, and the tiny hospital library was always full to the brim, however we were told that it was non-negotiable and people who did not comply were flagged up and disciplined. It had nothing to do with fitness to practice or medical education, and all to do with meeting the required regulations to be allowed to have international students. I wonder if the OP's severe punishment is due to similar considerations.

Reply 82

MonteCristo

Original post by zippyRN

it is very easy for some medical students and to sone extent junior Doctors to slack off especially if they are not managed with a degree of pro-active oversight...

It is easy for medical students to slope off but they are students and I, personally, have no problem if they want do some sports, sit out in the sun, or even leave early on a Friday to sit in a beer garden. They are the ones that pay the price if they get the balance wrong and fail exams.

I have met many junior doctors but really don't recognise this idea that they might "slack of". I do think that some nurses (sadly) believe juniors are slacking when they are actually attending to duties elsewhere. In my current job, the patients are predominantly on two wards but 2/3 are outliers spread over six additional wards. I am also required to be in A&E, clinic, the plaster room, radiology, day surgery, main theatres, M&M/MDT meetings, the secretaries' offices, and stalking the many corridors that link those destinations. I am well aware that the person bleeping repeatedly about an out-of-date cannula (while I'm trying to manage a patient in resus) will often assume I'm sat somewhere having a coffee instead.

Reply 83

*pitseleh*

This thread has descended into the weird.

Med students - you really don't have to hang around on the wards if it's not educational/if you have something more pressing to do/if there's an opportunity to see or do something exciting somewhere else in the hospital etc. Just be honest about it.*

Reply 84

Mimir

Anyone know the fate of the OP yet? This is quite an old thread...

Reply 85

moonkatt

Original post by Mimir

Anyone know the fate of the OP yet? This is quite an old thread...

http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showpost.php?p=67630560&postcount=49

Reply 86

Mimir

Original post by moonkatt

http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showpost.php?p=67630560&postcount=49

Crikey. Ah yes, we had "The Progress Committee" in Manchester. The last thing you ever wanted to see in an email.

A pretty inventive sanction, but still, ouch.

Reply 87

Etomidate

Original post by zippyRN

And other Health Professionals don't ? Generally when you have dug a hole it's wise to stop digging , least the sides cave in on you.

so you advocate the consumption of intoxicants when on-duty / on-call ?

show me a clinical area where 'all jobs are done' ... or perhaps the hours Nursing and AHP staff spend chasing junior medical staff to complete things which they (junior medical staff) are supposed to complete ...

never mind the level of hand-holding of Junior Doctors that has become the norm ... and of course the fact that Nursing staff are disciplined on a regular basis for not ensuring that Junior Doctors do their jobs ...

You're off your nut, mate. Perhaps time to shuffle out of the current medics subforum.

Reply 88

karter

Original post by Mimir

Crikey. Ah yes, we had "The Progress Committee" in Manchester. The last thing you ever wanted to see in an email.

A pretty inventive sanction, but still, ouch.

What did you get a progress committee email for?