Mourinho is a fraud. Discuss.
His FC Porto team won the CL as they had a God easy run in a very weak year for the big clubs. Fluke.
He inherited a Chelsea that was nearly there with Ranieri anyway. Except, he was then financially doped in a league which was far less competitive than it is now. He acquired perfect conditions for a title challenge. Arsenal at the time of his ascendency were near bankruptcy (Ian Wright's new autobiography and his exchanges with Gazidis), we couldn't sell the Highbury flats and the property market went against our favour big time. United were in transition.
He inherited a very strong Inter team that were continuous winners in Serie A, champions 3 years running. That didn't stop him from spunking 46 million Euros though on signings who all failed apart from Muntari. Income? 0. Granted his matches against Barca in the CL are due some credit, however lets not overblow what he achieved.
He has had unlimited bankroll at Real Madrid... failure.
His second run at Chelsea. Won a title, huge bankroll. Sold their next generation of top top class players because of his fragile ego and favouritism. Now Chelsea have to spend a few seasons rebuilding because of this. The man who thought Oscar was better than KDB... right.
To talk about him as if he is some genius is just taking in the media/PR **** fest over him which used to exist. Has he built an Empire? Has he done the unthinkable with a lower tier team and proven it was not a fluke?
In summary Mourinho is this: a manager that can succeed tactically with the perfect conditions within a club. He is not a good coach/developer of players like a Pep, or a club builder like Wenger and Ferguson.
The man is just a tactician and PR man for a generation of fans that are obsessed with instantaneous gratification and crude media sound bites.
He inherited a Chelsea that was nearly there with Ranieri anyway. Except, he was then financially doped in a league which was far less competitive than it is now. He acquired perfect conditions for a title challenge. Arsenal at the time of his ascendency were near bankruptcy (Ian Wright's new autobiography and his exchanges with Gazidis), we couldn't sell the Highbury flats and the property market went against our favour big time. United were in transition.
He inherited a very strong Inter team that were continuous winners in Serie A, champions 3 years running. That didn't stop him from spunking 46 million Euros though on signings who all failed apart from Muntari. Income? 0. Granted his matches against Barca in the CL are due some credit, however lets not overblow what he achieved.
He has had unlimited bankroll at Real Madrid... failure.
His second run at Chelsea. Won a title, huge bankroll. Sold their next generation of top top class players because of his fragile ego and favouritism. Now Chelsea have to spend a few seasons rebuilding because of this. The man who thought Oscar was better than KDB... right.
To talk about him as if he is some genius is just taking in the media/PR **** fest over him which used to exist. Has he built an Empire? Has he done the unthinkable with a lower tier team and proven it was not a fluke?
In summary Mourinho is this: a manager that can succeed tactically with the perfect conditions within a club. He is not a good coach/developer of players like a Pep, or a club builder like Wenger and Ferguson.
The man is just a tactician and PR man for a generation of fans that are obsessed with instantaneous gratification and crude media sound bites.
(edited 7 years ago)
I think people make him out to be better than he really is, but you've got to admit he's a class act. Look at his record, he has achieved success at every club he's been at (bar Madrid, but no one's good enough for them apparently). His downfall is his attitude, he's arrogant and never admits to be at fault, you only have to look at last season to see that. I hate the guy, his attitude stinks, but to call him a fraud is a bit much IMO
He beat what was in front of him for the CL at Porto (including the reigning PL champions). You can't argue with a Champions League. He also won the Europa League too.
Regarding Chelsea they finished with 16 and 11 points more than in 03/04, including breaking the points record and Jose getting over 100 PL points in 2005. Arsenal still had ALL the players who won the league with 90 points the previous season unbeaten (unless you want to count Ray Parlour). In his second run Jose only spent £54m to turn Chelsea into a team that easily won the League as opposed to one that was out of the race in January that season.
Jose spending £40m at Inter isn't that much, it's probably a point in favour of him there. I wouldn't call Milito, Lucio, Eto'o and Sneijder failures either.
The criticism for 12/13 and 15/16 is fair, but other than that he has been completely successful.
I found it a little ironic that at the end you said he needs to the unthinkable with a small team, yet in the first point mention Porto.
Regarding Chelsea they finished with 16 and 11 points more than in 03/04, including breaking the points record and Jose getting over 100 PL points in 2005. Arsenal still had ALL the players who won the league with 90 points the previous season unbeaten (unless you want to count Ray Parlour). In his second run Jose only spent £54m to turn Chelsea into a team that easily won the League as opposed to one that was out of the race in January that season.
Jose spending £40m at Inter isn't that much, it's probably a point in favour of him there. I wouldn't call Milito, Lucio, Eto'o and Sneijder failures either.
The criticism for 12/13 and 15/16 is fair, but other than that he has been completely successful.
I found it a little ironic that at the end you said he needs to the unthinkable with a small team, yet in the first point mention Porto.
Original post by Diego Costa
He beat what was in front of him for the CL at Porto (including the reigning PL champions). You can't argue with a Champions League. He also won the Europa League too.
Regarding Chelsea they finished with 16 and 11 points more than in 03/04, including breaking the points record and Jose getting over 100 PL points in 2005. Arsenal still had ALL the players who won the league with 90 points the previous season unbeaten (unless you want to count Ray Parlour). In his second run Jose only spent £54m to turn Chelsea into a team that easily won the League as opposed to one that was out of the race in January that season.
Jose spending £40m at Inter isn't that much, it's probably a point in favour of him there. I wouldn't call Milito, Lucio, Eto'o and Sneijder failures either.
The criticism for 12/13 and 15/16 is fair, but other than that he has been completely successful.
I found it a little ironic that at the end you said he needs to the unthinkable with a small team, yet in the first point mention Porto.
Regarding Chelsea they finished with 16 and 11 points more than in 03/04, including breaking the points record and Jose getting over 100 PL points in 2005. Arsenal still had ALL the players who won the league with 90 points the previous season unbeaten (unless you want to count Ray Parlour). In his second run Jose only spent £54m to turn Chelsea into a team that easily won the League as opposed to one that was out of the race in January that season.
Jose spending £40m at Inter isn't that much, it's probably a point in favour of him there. I wouldn't call Milito, Lucio, Eto'o and Sneijder failures either.
The criticism for 12/13 and 15/16 is fair, but other than that he has been completely successful.
I found it a little ironic that at the end you said he needs to the unthinkable with a small team, yet in the first point mention Porto.
It was UEFA Cup standard that year.
Original post by James.Carnell
It was UEFA Cup standard that year.
I'd argue that is still impressive anyway. He faced third in La Liga and first in the Prem, so his run-up was harder than Madrid's this year for instance. In any circumstance, every "hard" team was knocked out by either Porto or a team that Porto knocked out etc.
The simple fact is that he won the CL with the weakest squad of the last 25 years which is credit worthy. He had luck, but every team needs luck to win the CL, it's that simple.
Original post by James.Carnell
His FC Porto team won the CL as they had a God easy run in a very weak year for the big clubs. Fluke.
He inherited a Chelsea that was nearly there with Ranieri anyway. Except, he was then financially doped in a league which was far less competitive than it is now. He acquired perfect conditions for a title challenge. Arsenal at the time of his ascendency were near bankruptcy (Ian Wright's new autobiography and his exchanges with Gazidis), we couldn't sell the Highbury flats and the property market went against our favour big time. United were in transition.
He inherited a Chelsea that was nearly there with Ranieri anyway. Except, he was then financially doped in a league which was far less competitive than it is now. He acquired perfect conditions for a title challenge. Arsenal at the time of his ascendency were near bankruptcy (Ian Wright's new autobiography and his exchanges with Gazidis), we couldn't sell the Highbury flats and the property market went against our favour big time. United were in transition.
In Mourinho's first season at Chelsea, Arsenal were still on their 49 match winning run and had only lost Parlour, Wiltord and Keown from the invincibles team.
In his second season, Arsenal had lost Vieira but they got to the Champions League final. This was also the time when Fabregas and Van Persie were emerging.
Arsenal's decline came after that and allowed Ferguson's United to reassert themselves. Jose still had to win his first two Chelsea titles against this Arsenal team:
Lehmann
Lauren
Campbell
K Toure
Cole
Ljungberg
Vieira (for the first year, then Flamini)
Fabregas
Pires
Henry
Van Persie
Bergkamp was still around, and Reyes was in the team a lot back then
Original post by James.Carnell
His FC Porto team won the CL as they had a God easy run in a very weak year for the big clubs. Fluke.
He inherited a Chelsea that was nearly there with Ranieri anyway. Except, he was then financially doped in a league which was far less competitive than it is now. He acquired perfect conditions for a title challenge. Arsenal at the time of his ascendency were near bankruptcy (Ian Wright's new autobiography and his exchanges with Gazidis), we couldn't sell the Highbury flats and the property market went against our favour big time. United were in transition.
He inherited a very strong Inter team that were continuous winners in Serie A, champions 3 years running. That didn't stop him from spunking 46 million Euros though on signings who all failed apart from Muntari. Income? 0. Granted his matches against Barca in the CL are due some credit, however lets not overblow what he achieved.
He has had unlimited bankroll at Real Madrid... failure.
His second run at Chelsea. Won a title, huge bankroll. Sold their next generation of top top class players because of his fragile ego and favouritism. Now Chelsea have to spend a few seasons rebuilding because of this. The man who thought Oscar was better than KDB... right.
To talk about him as if he is some genius is just taking in the media/PR **** fest over him which used to exist. Has he built an Empire? Has he done the unthinkable with a lower tier team and proven it was not a fluke?
In summary Mourinho is this: a manager that can succeed tactically with the perfect conditions within a club. He is not a good coach/developer of players like a Pep, or a club builder like Wenger and Ferguson.
The man is just a tactician and PR man for a generation of fans that are obsessed with instantaneous gratification and crude media sound bites.
He inherited a Chelsea that was nearly there with Ranieri anyway. Except, he was then financially doped in a league which was far less competitive than it is now. He acquired perfect conditions for a title challenge. Arsenal at the time of his ascendency were near bankruptcy (Ian Wright's new autobiography and his exchanges with Gazidis), we couldn't sell the Highbury flats and the property market went against our favour big time. United were in transition.
He inherited a very strong Inter team that were continuous winners in Serie A, champions 3 years running. That didn't stop him from spunking 46 million Euros though on signings who all failed apart from Muntari. Income? 0. Granted his matches against Barca in the CL are due some credit, however lets not overblow what he achieved.
He has had unlimited bankroll at Real Madrid... failure.
His second run at Chelsea. Won a title, huge bankroll. Sold their next generation of top top class players because of his fragile ego and favouritism. Now Chelsea have to spend a few seasons rebuilding because of this. The man who thought Oscar was better than KDB... right.
To talk about him as if he is some genius is just taking in the media/PR **** fest over him which used to exist. Has he built an Empire? Has he done the unthinkable with a lower tier team and proven it was not a fluke?
In summary Mourinho is this: a manager that can succeed tactically with the perfect conditions within a club. He is not a good coach/developer of players like a Pep, or a club builder like Wenger and Ferguson.
The man is just a tactician and PR man for a generation of fans that are obsessed with instantaneous gratification and crude media sound bites.
Agree with this tbh.
Mourinho's so shite that Arsenal's greatest ever manager has never beaten him in the league or cup.
Original post by Zerforax
He's a great manager but he's also been fortunate with some luck/circumstances.
I don't think he's up their with the best managers of all time considering most of his clubs he's either fallen out with the owner/been sacked or his teams have imploded upon him leaving.
I don't think he's up their with the best managers of all time considering most of his clubs he's either fallen out with the owner/been sacked or his teams have imploded upon him leaving.
I don't think failing to get along with Abramovich or Perez should be used against a manager's legacy.
There can be no complaints about his career until 2012. Inter falling apart isn't his fault, it's primarily Benitez's. Inter would have won the league the season after he left if Leonardo was in charge for all of it.
It's largely whether 12/13 and 15/16 outweigh the good in his career, but you could also look the fact that he managed to win Madrid's first league title in three years (and only one of the last eight) and Chelsea's first league title for five years. At Chelsea he had to reshuffle a largely aging squad on a low net spend.
Not another one of these threads. We get it, its fashionable to question everything Mourinho's ever done.
Original post by Diego Costa
I don't think failing to get along with Abramovich or Perez should be used against a manager's legacy.
There can be no complaints about his career until 2012. Inter falling apart isn't his fault, it's primarily Benitez's. Inter would have won the league the season after he left if Leonardo was in charge for all of it.
It's largely whether 12/13 and 15/16 outweigh the good in his career, but you could also look the fact that he managed to win Madrid's first league title in three years (and only one of the last eight) and Chelsea's first league title for five years. At Chelsea he had to reshuffle a largely aging squad on a low net spend.
There can be no complaints about his career until 2012. Inter falling apart isn't his fault, it's primarily Benitez's. Inter would have won the league the season after he left if Leonardo was in charge for all of it.
It's largely whether 12/13 and 15/16 outweigh the good in his career, but you could also look the fact that he managed to win Madrid's first league title in three years (and only one of the last eight) and Chelsea's first league title for five years. At Chelsea he had to reshuffle a largely aging squad on a low net spend.
Woahhh careful you don't want to sound too much like an Arsenal fan.
Anyway, will reply to posts later.
Original post by Diego Costa
I don't think failing to get along with Abramovich or Perez should be used against a manager's legacy.
There can be no complaints about his career until 2012. Inter falling apart isn't his fault, it's primarily Benitez's. Inter would have won the league the season after he left if Leonardo was in charge for all of it.
It's largely whether 12/13 and 15/16 outweigh the good in his career, but you could also look the fact that he managed to win Madrid's first league title in three years (and only one of the last eight) and Chelsea's first league title for five years. At Chelsea he had to reshuffle a largely aging squad on a low net spend.
There can be no complaints about his career until 2012. Inter falling apart isn't his fault, it's primarily Benitez's. Inter would have won the league the season after he left if Leonardo was in charge for all of it.
It's largely whether 12/13 and 15/16 outweigh the good in his career, but you could also look the fact that he managed to win Madrid's first league title in three years (and only one of the last eight) and Chelsea's first league title for five years. At Chelsea he had to reshuffle a largely aging squad on a low net spend.
Of course it can - if your legacy is to pick fights with players, opposition players, other managers, referees, the press, owners and everyone else under the sun then it will define how you are viewed.
SAF had awful owners with the Glazers but was still successful and left on his terms rather than being pushed out.
Inter was partly his fault - every decision was short term during his tenure and he jumped knowing that the team were going to struggle the following season. It's not like the manager after Rafa fixed it all either since they had to go through quite a few to stabilise.
There's a reason why he's never spent more than 3 seasons at any club in one given stint.
Original post by Zerforax
Of course it can - if your legacy is to pick fights with players, opposition players, other managers, referees, the press, owners and everyone else under the sun then it will define how you are viewed.
The only two Mourinho didn't get on with were infamously hard to get on with. The Glazer's let Moyes and van Gaal stay too long if anything, so I'm not sure they were that bad.
SAF had awful owners with the Glazers but was still successful and left on his terms rather than being pushed out.
Ferguson himself fell out with Man Utd's previous owners before they left. Even then Ferguson had been at Man Utd for twenty years before the Glazer's took over so had established himself. In contrast Abramovich and Perez were instilled before Jose, so obviously he had less bargaining power.
Inter was partly his fault - every decision was short term during his tenure and he jumped knowing that the team were going to struggle the following season. It's not like the manager after Rafa fixed it all either since they had to go through quite a few to stabilise.
Inter had an aging squad when he took over. The only old players Mourinho brought in were Lucio (who was £6m and still younger than Cordoba who was already playing there) and Milito who was still playing very well a few years later.
They went from 7th to 2nd after Benitez left just under half way through the season. Leonardo got 53 points from 23 games, which works out at an 87/88 point season, 5+ more than the winners got.
Original post by James.Carnell
Woahhh careful you don't want to sound too much like an Arsenal fan.
Anyway, will reply to posts later.
Anyway, will reply to posts later.
You mentioned that he had a huge bankroll, I was just pointing out otherwise. £54m over two seasons isn't much more than a mid-table side spends.
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