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why do third wave feminists look down on women who aren't

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Original post by upperechelon
like ok, I don't feel the need to be unnecessarily angry about imaginary prejudices, it doesn't mean you can be so condescending and aggressive towards me. i am constantly harassed about this apparent 'wage gap' and 'rape culture' that plagues me. I know for a fact that the wage gap is due to many reasons aside from 'sexism', and I for one believe, at least in the West, that 'rape culture', which would insinuate rape is celebrated, does not exist to the point where it could be deemed a culture


Edit- literally all feminists who are 'arguing' with me are being ad hominem and proving my point

if the rape culture does exist then it only exists in the minds of those that wish its very existence and nothing more
Feminism is just plain wrong, its unnaturally going against the laws of nature, ask yourself this, would you educate a girl to be a sexual predator like you would educate a girl to be a feminist, no of course you wouldn't (I know might be fun though :wink:). Point being that most women are not supposed to be sexual predators by nature, the man is (not talking rape/extremes here though). So why don't women push out on this side as well? you'll hardly ever see a women pursue a man for a relationship, initiating contact, etc. Even many feminists that are open to relationships with men probably hypocritically expect the man to do all the initiating & chasing but will become an aggressive feminist if a man mistakenly initiates/pursues her who she is not interested in.

Feminism I believe has led to the half of women that are fat and the quarter of women that are classed as having mental health issues. Plus of course the rising number of single people in society at just over 50 percent of the population now. Why? - well I believe the male female relationship is not just an intimate one but a reciprocal one, it is a relationship of inter-dependence. Otherwise like some creatures in the wild once mating has been done the mating pair would split up, but we don't unless the interdependence breaks down. Like some other creatures in the wild being interdependent also. The fact that through school and probably also parenting, career is pushed and pregnancy looked down upon this interdependency is broken. Most women though are not naturally programmed to be Independent of men, without that support they develop mental health issues and obesity as they don't know how to cope. They have been psychologically blocked from being dependant on a man and now see the man as competition in the career sense - they are now an opponent to contend with, not a source of support - they have nowhere to get the necessary emotional support from so develop issues.

Feminism is all about aggressiveness - it can't thrive otherwise - forcing their view on others and trying to intimidate any opposition so they get and maintain dominance. Naturally its the man that is supposed to be dominant, not by choice or in an overbearing way, but most women are programmed for the bloke to lead the way. Now men are being told they shouldn't, women should be able to do their role, etc -then what is the role the man is left to fulfil, often there isn't one, he is redundant and hence why women com[p-lain they can't find a good man because they have taken over many men's roles thereby denying themselves a 'good man'. Feminists mistakenly believe going out to work is a joy - it rarely is, its why many men used to solely or mainly fulfil this function as it was an unappealing position to be in - working for the rest of your life relentlessly until you die or if lucky retire. Breaking away from the mode that existed for hundreds probably thousands of years is a disaster for society, its existed the way it had for a reason, suddenly deciding that in the space of a few decades society can be run differently is just plain stupidity.
Original post by Deerly
I would say that many feminists would be shocked at the fact that other women wouldn't advocate equal rights amongst genders, seeing as women face more prejudices/discrimination in comparison to men in general.


Ok, go on then, list the prejudices/discrimination women experience in the UK/US.
Original post by Dheorl
Ok, go on then, list the prejudices/discrimination women experience in the UK/US.


There are still inequalities in the further education. For example,a study observing the differences in letters of recommendation between the genders showed a distinct difference between the language describing the subject. Women were more often described as 'more communal and less agentic' than their male counterparts and these 'lead to a negative relationship with hiring decisions in academia'. source source source

In medicine, we also often don't properly educate people on the differences between male and female symptoms. Heart attacks and strokes present themselves differently in women but we hear more often about the symptoms men face because most of our research comes from studying men. Women don't have the classic numb right hand for example. source

Women are also not prescribed medicine as well as men are and their pain isn't taken as seriously as it is if a man is showing the same symptoms. source. Furthermore, there is a much lower diagnosal rate in women for things such as autism, Aspergers, adhd and other disorders.

Some other sources if you want to have a look at broader gender differences; gender in education, gender in employment, gender in parenting and gender in interaction.

That's just a brief overview of some of the issues that are prevalent. However these are often overshadowed with angrier things such as 'free the nipple' etc.

In my personal experience I have also often noticed that when I was with my ex I tended to be addressed far less. Like when we were at a restaurant the server would present the cheque to my boyfriend even though we always split the bill. People coming up to try and sell us stuff like mobile packages would almost always only look at him with an occasional glance to me. And this wasn't me just being dramatic because he often mentioned it as well.

All in all, there are definitely issues but they are not obviously extreme as other countries and more come down to implicit biases rather than explicit ones. :smile:
Original post by unrealistic
There are still inequalities in the further education. For example,a study observing the differences in letters of recommendation between the genders showed a distinct difference between the language describing the subject. Women were more often described as 'more communal and less agentic' than their male counterparts and these 'lead to a negative relationship with hiring decisions in academia'. source source source

In medicine, we also often don't properly educate people on the differences between male and female symptoms. Heart attacks and strokes present themselves differently in women but we hear more often about the symptoms men face because most of our research comes from studying men. Women don't have the classic numb right hand for example. source

Women are also not prescribed medicine as well as men are and their pain isn't taken as seriously as it is if a man is showing the same symptoms. source. Furthermore, there is a much lower diagnosal rate in women for things such as autism, Aspergers, adhd and other disorders.

Some other sources if you want to have a look at broader gender differences; gender in education, gender in employment, gender in parenting and gender in interaction.

That's just a brief overview of some of the issues that are prevalent. However these are often overshadowed with angrier things such as 'free the nipple' etc.

In my personal experience I have also often noticed that when I was with my ex I tended to be addressed far less. Like when we were at a restaurant the server would present the cheque to my boyfriend even though we always split the bill. People coming up to try and sell us stuff like mobile packages would almost always only look at him with an occasional glance to me. And this wasn't me just being dramatic because he often mentioned it as well.

All in all, there are definitely issues but they are not obviously extreme as other countries and more come down to implicit biases rather than explicit ones. :smile:


And now the prejudices/discrimination men experience?
Original post by Dheorl
And now the prejudices/discrimination men experience?


That's the issue. Feminism isn't classically men vs women. It's femininity vs masculinity. Masculinity in men is seen as strong, powerful and ideal. Femininty in men is seen as weak and unideal.

Take for example patenting. A common problem that men face is that they can't get child custody even if the mother is a far inferior parent. The implicit bias in this is that looking after children is a feminine thing so a man cannot embody these traits.

It goes on to affect men negatively. Men can't be raped. Men can't wear women's clothes. Men can't be nurses. Whatever it is a lot of the time it is drawn from an idea of men being feminine as wrong.


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Original post by unrealistic
That's the issue. Feminism isn't classically men vs women. It's femininity vs masculinity. Masculinity in men is seen as strong, powerful and ideal. Femininty in men is seen as weak and unideal.

Take for example patenting. A common problem that men face is that they can't get child custody even if the mother is a far inferior parent. The implicit bias in this is that looking after children is a feminine thing so a man cannot embody these traits.

It goes on to affect men negatively. Men can't be raped. Men can't wear women's clothes. Men can't be nurses. Whatever it is a lot of the time it is drawn from an idea of men being feminine as wrong.



So for women you'll explicitly list out problems with sources, but for men you'll just dismiss them as problems of femininity vs masculinity... interesting.
Original post by Dheorl
So for women you'll explicitly list out problems with sources, but for men you'll just dismiss them as problems of femininity vs masculinity... interesting.


Because I'm on my mobile not on my computer?? If you want I'll list sources and give more detail after class has finished?? :/

Also, I'd appreciate it if you'd not be passive aggressive towards me. If you have an issue with what I've said then please outline your complaint rather than hiding behind attitude and superiority. It's a little immature :smile:


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Original post by unrealistic
Because I'm on my mobile not on my computer?? If you want I'll list sources and give more detail after class has finished?? :/

Also, I'd appreciate it if you'd not be passive aggressive towards me. If you have an issue with what I've said then please outline your complaint rather than hiding behind attitude and superiority. It's a little immature :smile:


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So you complain about a perceived agression, retort with patronization and then call me out on being immature? You really are an interesting one.
Original post by Dheorl
So you complain about a perceived agression, retort with patronization and then call me out on being immature? You really are an interesting one.


Look I really don't want to argue about this. I'm sorry if it came off hypocritical but I just get annoyed when people are passive aggressive. Truce, I'll give a longer response on the men thing later :smile:


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Original post by unrealistic
Look I really don't want to argue about this. I'm sorry if it came off hypocritical but I just get annoyed when people are passive aggressive. Truce, I'll give a longer response on the men thing later :smile:


I didn't intend to come across as aggressive, I was just slightly peeved by the bias. I look forward to your longer response.
Original post by upperechelon
first and second wave feminism were respectable causes that were truly about gender equality.
third wave feminism is a mess.


second wave feminism was not a respectable cause - Greer and other hate speech merchants are 2nd wave feminists - TERF / 'gender critical' feminism is 2nd wave.
Original post by Dheorl
So for women you'll explicitly list out problems with sources, but for men you'll just dismiss them as problems of femininity vs masculinity... interesting.


clutching at straws there bro

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Original post by Gavin2016
Feminism is just plain wrong, its unnaturally going against the laws of nature, ask yourself this, would you educate a girl to be a sexual predator like you would educate a girl to be a feminist, no of course you wouldn't (I know might be fun though :wink:). Point being that most women are not supposed to be sexual predators by nature, the man is (not talking rape/extremes here though). So why don't women push out on this side as well? you'll hardly ever see a women pursue a man for a relationship, initiating contact, etc. Even many feminists that are open to relationships with men probably hypocritically expect the man to do all the initiating & chasing but will become an aggressive feminist if a man mistakenly initiates/pursues her who she is not interested in.

Feminism I believe has led to the half of women that are fat and the quarter of women that are classed as having mental health issues. Plus of course the rising number of single people in society at just over 50 percent of the population now. Why? - well I believe the male female relationship is not just an intimate one but a reciprocal one, it is a relationship of inter-dependence. Otherwise like some creatures in the wild once mating has been done the mating pair would split up, but we don't unless the interdependence breaks down. Like some other creatures in the wild being interdependent also. The fact that through school and probably also parenting, career is pushed and pregnancy looked down upon this interdependency is broken. Most women though are not naturally programmed to be Independent of men, without that support they develop mental health issues and obesity as they don't know how to cope. They have been psychologically blocked from being dependant on a man and now see the man as competition in the career sense - they are now an opponent to contend with, not a source of support - they have nowhere to get the necessary emotional support from so develop issues.

Feminism is all about aggressiveness - it can't thrive otherwise - forcing their view on others and trying to intimidate any opposition so they get and maintain dominance. Naturally its the man that is supposed to be dominant, not by choice or in an overbearing way, but most women are programmed for the bloke to lead the way. Now men are being told they shouldn't, women should be able to do their role, etc -then what is the role the man is left to fulfil, often there isn't one, he is redundant and hence why women com[p-lain they can't find a good man because they have taken over many men's roles thereby denying themselves a 'good man'. Feminists mistakenly believe going out to work is a joy - it rarely is, its why many men used to solely or mainly fulfil this function as it was an unappealing position to be in - working for the rest of your life relentlessly until you die or if lucky retire. Breaking away from the mode that existed for hundreds probably thousands of years is a disaster for society, its existed the way it had for a reason, suddenly deciding that in the space of a few decades society can be run differently is just plain stupidity.

There are plenty of obese men too you know, is that because of feminism too 😂 most feminists I know are thin not fat anyway.
Women are not children you know, we're perfectly capable of working and making decisions without becoming fat or depressed. Think your post has got to be up there with one of the most patronising ones on here.
Reply 134
Original post by Gavin2016
Feminism is just plain wrong, its unnaturally going against the laws of nature, ask yourself this, would you educate a girl to be a sexual predator like you would educate a girl to be a feminist, no of course you wouldn't (I know might be fun though :wink:). Point being that most women are not supposed to be sexual predators by nature, the man is (not talking rape/extremes here though). So why don't women push out on this side as well? you'll hardly ever see a women pursue a man for a relationship, initiating contact, etc. Even many feminists that are open to relationships with men probably hypocritically expect the man to do all the initiating & chasing but will become an aggressive feminist if a man mistakenly initiates/pursues her who she is not interested in.

Feminism I believe has led to the half of women that are fat and the quarter of women that are classed as having mental health issues. Plus of course the rising number of single people in society at just over 50 percent of the population now. Why? - well I believe the male female relationship is not just an intimate one but a reciprocal one, it is a relationship of inter-dependence. Otherwise like some creatures in the wild once mating has been done the mating pair would split up, but we don't unless the interdependence breaks down. Like some other creatures in the wild being interdependent also. The fact that through school and probably also parenting, career is pushed and pregnancy looked down upon this interdependency is broken. Most women though are not naturally programmed to be Independent of men, without that support they develop mental health issues and obesity as they don't know how to cope. They have been psychologically blocked from being dependant on a man and now see the man as competition in the career sense - they are now an opponent to contend with, not a source of support - they have nowhere to get the necessary emotional support from so develop issues.

Feminism is all about aggressiveness - it can't thrive otherwise - forcing their view on others and trying to intimidate any opposition so they get and maintain dominance. Naturally its the man that is supposed to be dominant, not by choice or in an overbearing way, but most women are programmed for the bloke to lead the way. Now men are being told they shouldn't, women should be able to do their role, etc -then what is the role the man is left to fulfil, often there isn't one, he is redundant and hence why women com[p-lain they can't find a good man because they have taken over many men's roles thereby denying themselves a 'good man'. Feminists mistakenly believe going out to work is a joy - it rarely is, its why many men used to solely or mainly fulfil this function as it was an unappealing position to be in - working for the rest of your life relentlessly until you die or if lucky retire. Breaking away from the mode that existed for hundreds probably thousands of years is a disaster for society, its existed the way it had for a reason, suddenly deciding that in the space of a few decades society can be run differently is just plain stupidity.


You forget that feminism is about choice, not forcing women into one role or a other. Also, naturalistic fallacy abound

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Original post by RobML
You forget that feminism is about choice, not forcing women into one role or a other. Also, naturalistic fallacy abound

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That is the problem, the natural choice for most women is pregnancy, family, etc not career. For sure some women are not cut out for that they want to be real geeky scientists or whatever, the family scene is not for them, but they are a small section of the female society that are genetically inclined to that, perhaps somewhere in the direction of 10 percent, if that. We have been brought up to all believe the wide notion of choice is good, but it can be bad in saying to women you 'have' to have choice, what you want to do, i.e career choice. Rather than saying actually you don't have to have choice you can just follow the natural path of pregnancy, family, etc post 16, 18. The emphasis on careers for females in schools takes away a woman's natural choice of wanting a child post 16, 18 - it makes them feel wrong for wanting a child from the get go. It puts up an invisible barrier for the women that want children straight after school who don't want or aren't or would otherwise not be interested in university.
Original post by Ella-keturah
There are plenty of obese men too you know, is that because of feminism too 😂 most feminists I know are thin not fat anyway.
Women are not children you know, we're perfectly capable of working and making decisions without becoming fat or depressed. Think your post has got to be up there with one of the most patronising ones on here.


There are some fat men, but there are far, far more fat females, I see them around everyday now in surprising numbers, its truly a shocking sight, it never used to be this way. I don't think its a case of feminists being thin, many tend to be but they are content with being divorced from the traditional gender roles - they want careers so they are happy with who they are and are probably very stable psychologically. I am saying it is the women that aren't genetically abled like they are to go into competition against men and live a career lifestyle that are the ones being affected by feminists dominant ideology in todays society. We are basically following along the mode of the society in the US just a step behind and there is little happiness to be had there either, just increasing dissatisfaction and societal break down. I just think its time to turn away from this disastrous policy its evident its producing little happiness in society for quite some time now and society has been going from bad to worse, not better.
Original post by Gavin2016
There are some fat men, but there are far, far more fat females, I see them around everyday now in surprising numbers, its truly a shocking sight, it never used to be this way. I don't think its a case of feminists being thin, many tend to be but they are content with being divorced from the traditional gender roles - they want careers so they are happy with who they are and are probably very stable psychologically. I am saying it is the women that aren't genetically abled like they are to go into competition against men and live a career lifestyle that are the ones being affected by feminists dominant ideology in todays society. We are basically following along the mode of the society in the US just a step behind and there is little happiness to be had there either, just increasing dissatisfaction and societal break down. I just think its time to turn away from this disastrous policy its evident its producing little happiness in society for quite some time now and society has been going from bad to worse, not better.


Nope, I've looked online and studies from 2014 and 2015 showed more men are overweight in Britain than women. Just Google it.
Original post by Ella-keturah
Nope, I've looked online and studies from 2014 and 2015 showed more men are overweight in Britain than women. Just Google it.


No point talking statistics, people just choose the statistics that back up their points and ignore the others. How overweight for example, we can choose specific categories of overweight to suit ourselves. Outside of certain years?, etc. The pure truth is when you go out and about day to day they are way more 'shockingly' obese women then men. Obesity that makes you stop & stare in shock horror in disbelief that such a body shape is even possible yet alone be like that a significant time, which for many it is.
Original post by Gavin2016
No point talking statistics, people just choose the statistics that back up their points and ignore the others. How overweight for example, we can choose specific categories of overweight to suit ourselves. Outside of certain years?, etc. The pure truth is when you go out and about day to day they are way more 'shockingly' obese women then men. Obesity that makes you stop & stare in shock horror in disbelief that such a body shape is even possible yet alone be like that a significant time, which for many it is.


the whole point of statistics is to get rid of stupid biases, exactly like those you're basing virtually everything you say on

a healthy respect for cherry picking is one thing, but afaik this isnt really one of those situations where every other study is drawing a different conclusion. the numbers are what they are!

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