The underrepresentation of white working class boys in higher education
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Well people are largely shaped by culture/upbringing. I come from a very working class family, but grew up in a fairly idyllic area, so I do not believe I have had the typical experience of a white working class male. But I mean from what my parents say there was, at least when they were young, very much an attitude of heavily curbed ambitions; essentially all that was expected of you was that you get a steady job and a place to live. Didn't have to be something you enjoyed or something well-paying, just make sure you're, well, working, with a roof over your head to come back to, and you've done enough. In addition, to want more than this was almost seen as a negative by some, as if it was reaching beyond some prescribed destiny. These are just anecdotal experiences and I am sure it is relatively better today but it would seem to explain some things.
And certainly in my own experience there is an almost competitive drive amongst males, not necessarily working class but I suppose in particular, to not be seen as, well, a swot; the more you appear to not give a f**k about it all, the more respected you are. And as I said, my area was pretty idyllic, and I am quite sure there are far worse schools than the one I went to.
I really would not call it laziness in general though. Many people who do poorly at school and don't go on to uni will end up working hard. It isn't lazy to not have ambition. It is lazy to claim benefits when you don't need them and not work or study, for instance, but barely anyone does this. If you work long hours most days in a taxing job, I don't give a damn how hard the job was to get or what the general public perception of that job is, you aren't lazy. This notion that we all must strive to "succeed" and "compete", to climb some imaginary ladder, is rather perverse to me. Call it "maximising your potential", call it "ambition". Sure, in cases where someone can go into something that helps humanity or whatever, great. But a lot of graduates have been led by intelligence and ambition to just working for faceless corporations, not doing a damn thing to really contribute to the world. How valuable is this? Well, for the sustainment and betterment of all our modern luxuries, pretty valuable. But I'm not sure our priorities are in order.
And certainly in my own experience there is an almost competitive drive amongst males, not necessarily working class but I suppose in particular, to not be seen as, well, a swot; the more you appear to not give a f**k about it all, the more respected you are. And as I said, my area was pretty idyllic, and I am quite sure there are far worse schools than the one I went to.
I really would not call it laziness in general though. Many people who do poorly at school and don't go on to uni will end up working hard. It isn't lazy to not have ambition. It is lazy to claim benefits when you don't need them and not work or study, for instance, but barely anyone does this. If you work long hours most days in a taxing job, I don't give a damn how hard the job was to get or what the general public perception of that job is, you aren't lazy. This notion that we all must strive to "succeed" and "compete", to climb some imaginary ladder, is rather perverse to me. Call it "maximising your potential", call it "ambition". Sure, in cases where someone can go into something that helps humanity or whatever, great. But a lot of graduates have been led by intelligence and ambition to just working for faceless corporations, not doing a damn thing to really contribute to the world. How valuable is this? Well, for the sustainment and betterment of all our modern luxuries, pretty valuable. But I'm not sure our priorities are in order.
Original post by 1 8 13 20 42
But a lot of graduates have been led by intelligence and ambition to just working for faceless corporations, not doing a damn thing to really contribute to the world. How valuable is this? Well, for the sustainment and betterment of all our modern luxuries, pretty valuable. But I'm not sure our priorities are in order.
There are quite a lot of faceless corporations which do quite important and/or worthwhile things... Just saying.*
Original post by TurboCretin
There are quite a lot of faceless corporations which do quite important and/or worthwhile things... Just saying.*
Yeah fair point. I typed that up after waking up in the middle of the night/early morning so it's probably a bit suspicious in the logic department lol.
Original post by #ChaosKass
White boys get neglected at school as the left-wing teachers focus on the "minorities", leaving them to fall behind.
That's a load of crap, it's because white boy's are put on their bikes all night pissing people off age 9-12 and from 13-18 they are still out with the same people just high as well. They are lazy and have no interest in working hard, where as all the black and Asians get a beating (their words not mine) when they don't do their homework, revision, extra set work, sports and piano. Also I feel like as a white person my parents didn't push me and start working on my CV age 5- I don't have grade 8 *insert instrument* and I didn't get brought up bilingual
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Original post by 0to100
Anyway if you look at the chart Asian females do the best, socioeconomically whilst doing their gcse's and going to Uni. That's what the bars represent.
And white Brits all around do worst. According to the chart.
Maybe if people learn the history on the United Kingdom they'd know why there is significant generational poverty and classism within the white British nationality
So where's my white privilege because I'm underprivileged as ****. Stop thinking life is automatically easier because of white skin.
And white Brits all around do worst. According to the chart.
Maybe if people learn the history on the United Kingdom they'd know why there is significant generational poverty and classism within the white British nationality
So where's my white privilege because I'm underprivileged as ****. Stop thinking life is automatically easier because of white skin.
No one's disagreeing with discrimination based on wealth. Discrimination is intersectional and white privilege intertwines with it.
Original post by #ChaosKass
White boys get neglected at school as the left-wing teachers focus on the "minorities", leaving them to fall behind.
If that was the case, there'd be some evidence of teachers focussing more on the minorities, such as selecting them to speak more in class, going out of their way to help them with homework or even awarding them higher marks for their work than they tend to get in anonymously assessed coursework or exams. As far as I know, there's absolutely no evidence to support such a claim.
Original post by 0to100
What? I'm saying what it says mate.
What it says is that white, working class males are less likely to go to university. It doesn't say that being from such a background necessarily puts you at a disadvantage: it could instead be that such pupils on average spend less time on schoolwork and are less likely to apply even if they do have the necessary grades, in which case having black skin wouldn't help you in the slightest unless you also worker harder and were more inclined to apply.
Original post by fksociety
No one's disagreeing with discrimination based on wealth. Discrimination is intersectional and white privilege intertwines with it.
What am I supposed to do with this rubbish?
Neither of your sentences make clear sense.
Original post by Saoirse:3
What it says is that white, working class males are less likely to go to university. It doesn't say that being from such a background necessarily puts you at a disadvantage: it could instead be that such pupils on average spend less time on schoolwork and are less likely to apply even if they do have the necessary grades, in which case having black skin wouldn't help you in the slightest unless you also worker harder and were more inclined to apply.
What it says is that white, working class males are less likely to go to university. It doesn't say that being from such a background necessarily puts you at a disadvantage: it could instead be that such pupils on average spend less time on schoolwork and are less likely to apply even if they do have the necessary grades, in which case having black skin wouldn't help you in the slightest unless you also worker harder and were more inclined to apply.
Ok and that's what I said to 999tigger.
As far as your 2nd sentence, I literally never said that.
As for as what is underlined, erm no. The graph doesn't say anything about schoolwork and the likelihood of applying, don't ascribe your personal interpretations and biases to what the information clearly and exclusively states. It's a chart, statistics. If it wanted to state "do white kids spend time on schoolwork and apply to Uni" it would say that and show the following statistics... And yes biases, because there are a multitude of potential and actual reasons why people don't finish school or attend uni other than "they didn't spend time on schoolwork." To say something like that is completely negligent of reality.
Original post by 0to100
Ok and that's what I said to 999tigger.
As far as your 2nd sentence, I literally never said that.
As for as what is underlined, erm no. The graph doesn't say anything about schoolwork and the likelihood of applying, don't ascribe your personal interpretations and biases to what the information clearly and exclusively states. It's a chart, statistics. If it wanted to state "do white kids spend time on schoolwork and apply to Uni" it would say that and show the following statistics... And yes biases, because there are a multitude of potential and actual reasons why people don't finish school or attend uni other than "they didn't spend time on schoolwork." To say something like that is completely negligent of reality.
As far as your 2nd sentence, I literally never said that.
As for as what is underlined, erm no. The graph doesn't say anything about schoolwork and the likelihood of applying, don't ascribe your personal interpretations and biases to what the information clearly and exclusively states. It's a chart, statistics. If it wanted to state "do white kids spend time on schoolwork and apply to Uni" it would say that and show the following statistics... And yes biases, because there are a multitude of potential and actual reasons why people don't finish school or attend uni other than "they didn't spend time on schoolwork." To say something like that is completely negligent of reality.
It could instead be. A hypothesis, not a claim this particular graph shows that.
Original post by 0to100
What am I supposed to do with this rubbish?
Neither of your sentences make clear sense.
Neither of your sentences make clear sense.
Perhaps you should have used your free education more wisely.
We are working class. When my son was born I was living on the Langworthy Estate in Salford if any of you know it. Awful area with lots of crime, extreme poverty and crap schools. I made the decision after my mother died when my son was two years old to move back to Northern Ireland ,where I had briefly lived with my son's father. God knows how he might have turned out if we had stayed in Salford. After his father died my son was given a once in a lifetime opportunity, and I never took it. One of his aunts and uncles ,when he was 12, offered to pay for him to go to a boarding school in Dublin, called The King's Hospital. They were going to pay all the fees in full. [Secondary school in the Republic of Ireland starts at age 12 not 11]. I looked at the school's website, then thought about the good Catholic High School he was at. There is nothing wrong with the High School. Schools generally over here in Northern Ireland tend to be of a higher standard than the ones in England, which was one of the reasons I decided to move back here. Anyway my son absolutely, utterly refused to even contemplate the idea of boarding school. He said it would ruin his life. I knew what an opportunity he was turning down, even if he didn't, so I kindly but sadly rejected his late father's sister's offer. Had to almost literally drag him out of bed and in to school . Did the minimum he could get away with. Still to this day, and he is 20 in February, he has virtually no ambition at all. All his friends went to the same High School. My son is the only one out of the six or seven of them who has continued in any sort of education beyond GCSE's. One was doing a course at college but dropped out after a few months and has been signing on the dole ever since. Another was doing a catering course at the same college but again, dropped out. He then got a job in a cafe but was sacked after a few weeks for some reason. They all smoke the waccy backy , and pile into this crappy car and drive around town with the windows wound down and music blaring out. God. I really hope he chooses to apply to uni for next year, when he can enter the second year with his HND and make some decent friends. They're not bad lads. They don't mug old ladies or anything. But I just feel if my son was with people who had ambition and a bit of drive, some of it might rub off on to him. But still to this day I think about that boarding school and the people he would have met there. He might be a very different person today.
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by sazriah
I don't see how the system discourages them from high education. Must be a mindset thing. 
I dont even see how op's graph relates to his title.
Original post by Saoirse:3
It could instead be. A hypothesis, not a claim this particular graph shows that.
A "hypothesis?" Lol no it was your biased interpretation on why the chart hows the information it does, don't play that game with me
Anyway, nothing more to say to you, and it's weird someone with an Irish name is clearly dismissing the reality of forms of discrimination toward white british and Irish people and how it affects our education but ok. Night night.
Original post by fksociety
Perhaps you should have used your free education more wisely.
Original post by fksociety
No one's disagreeing with discrimination based on wealth. Discrimination is intersectional and white privilege intertwines with it.
What the **** does this even mean? According to the English language it means nothing. It's an incomplete, vapid thought my friend!
And oo look out guys he used "intersectional" and "intertwine," he's a clever one!
jog on
What people often forget is just how important upbringing is in all this. If you're a working class boy there's a decent chance your parents have separated for whatever reason, and when that happens the father usually disappears never to be heard of again. Male teachers are non existent in primary schools so a lot of these kids don't have any male role models at all until they get to secondary school, by which time the damage has already been done.
When I was a kid I had a bedtime story every night and my parents study was full of literature. I always watched "intellectual" shows like the Weakest Link, A Question of Sport, Who Wants to be a Millionaire etc with my Dad, and my weekends often consisted of trips to museums, art galleries, the library etc. My parents/wider family were all highly intellectual people in well paid jobs with that background I was always going to learn that education was important. Most working class people don't have that upbringing, so obviously won't feel that education is important.
Plus if they attend a bog standard comprehensive with low quality teaching and where they're bullied for being smart, with no support at home, it's not rocket science to see why these kids aren't thinking of doing PPE at Oxford.
To be fair I was offered the chance to board on a couple of occasions when I was around that age and I flat out refused. I couldn't think of anything worse.
When I was a kid I had a bedtime story every night and my parents study was full of literature. I always watched "intellectual" shows like the Weakest Link, A Question of Sport, Who Wants to be a Millionaire etc with my Dad, and my weekends often consisted of trips to museums, art galleries, the library etc. My parents/wider family were all highly intellectual people in well paid jobs with that background I was always going to learn that education was important. Most working class people don't have that upbringing, so obviously won't feel that education is important.
Plus if they attend a bog standard comprehensive with low quality teaching and where they're bullied for being smart, with no support at home, it's not rocket science to see why these kids aren't thinking of doing PPE at Oxford.
Original post by markova21
x
To be fair I was offered the chance to board on a couple of occasions when I was around that age and I flat out refused. I couldn't think of anything worse.
Oh boy, just look at that white privilege!
Original post by 0to100
What the **** does this even mean? According to the English language it means nothing. It's an incomplete, vapid thought my friend!
And oo look out guys he used "intersectional" and "intertwine," he's a clever one!
jog on
And oo look out guys he used "intersectional" and "intertwine," he's a clever one!
jog on
It makes perfect sense you pleb.
This is why no one on this site likes you.
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