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What is your view on assisted suicide (euthanasia) for mental illness?

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What makes her PTSD incurable?

Just because we can't imagine living through the horrors that humans inflict on each other doesn't mean we should sanction killing of the victims.

I wouldn't say that my life is comparatively fortunate either. I experienced severe childhood abuse. I've actually only been abuse free for about 5 years. I have PTSD. I may always have it but I believe in recovery and healing. Not always. Some days the depression overwhelms and I feel of less worth than a grain of sand and that really no one would notice my disappearance anyway. The days when being better actually hurt more than the suicidal days...which is a horrible cruel irony. The days when I want to throw myself back into that world of abuse simply because not being hurt in some way is too strange and I feel a sick sort of homesickness for the abuse.

I survived someone trying to kill me. Ironically because I wanted to die. I spent a long time believing that I shouldn't have survived and I tried to rectify that. I'm glad there was no assistance available. Yes there are *****y times and my mental health can't seem to stay stable for long but by surviving I found hope. I found love. I found out what it was like to live a life without abuse. I discovered a career I flipping love the bones off. Does that help me sleep through the nightmares and flashbacks? Nope. Does that help me feel safer? Not really no. But I experience positives as well as the fear

That was incredibly touching.

I'm no expert on PTSD. Euthanasia for mental illness will always be complicated. Assessing a person's state of mind would be difficult and I certainly do not agree with throwing lives away lightly.

Perhaps you are stronger than you realise. Many would have ended it if they were in your position.

If a person is struggling every single day of their lives with misery. They have tried everything. It may not be quite the same as being paralysed from the neck down but it still an existence rather than a life. Is it worth sticking around to merely exist?

Ultimately if a person has had enough they will most likely end it. Not hard to overdose on medicine, poison yourself etc. Even travel to Dignitas if that is what they want.

Perhaps euthanasia is an unnecessary legitimised process that will not really benefit anybody. Less stigma surrounding mental illness and suicide itself would benefit society much more.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/sex-abuse-victim-in-her-20s-allowed-by-dutch-doctors-to-undergo-euthanasia-due-to-severe-ptsd-a7023666.html

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 61

~Tara~

I guess from my POV, I've been in that place of barely existing. I got to the point of not feeling any emotions, lost all my empathy. I tried to commit suicide 10s of times. I lost count..either I'm lame or it's actually not that easy to commit suicide. I had real tunnel vision and it's by real luck really that I found what ultimately turned my life around.

I say "luck" I mean it was case of right place right time because my tunnel vision expanded enough to allow me to try the last chance saloon. We have to be open to receiving help as much as it needs to be there ready for us.

Reply 62

waitingtoexhale

This is a BIG topic of interest around the world, and very debatable, however I'll add my two cents.

I have bipolar, and have seen first hand how distressing and consuming depression is. I have had many overdoses in my 22 years, and the last saw me have 2 cardiac arrests. I wanted to die, some days I still do. And if asked this question at that time I would of burned my fictitious bra! But now months on, and on better medication, I don't feel as down. In-fact, I feel flat. Numb. Disassociated. So asking that very same question to me today, I would still say yes. The pain you endure before attempting suicide is enough for one person in one lifetime, but depression is a reoccurring illness that sucks you in and throws you out like the tide. I feel that assisted suicide should have its own set of professionals, to diagnose underlying illness, and really talk things through, then after say, 3 years of the person being continually depressed, and no medication or therapeutic services working, only then shall they be considered for euthanasia!

That is a logical way of thinking, but then again I'm in personal conflict as I wouldn't want to wait 3 years to die, I wouldn't even want to wait another 3 minutes.

I hope this has helped more understand the struggle! And what a thought provoking question! :biggrin:

Reply 63

Sabertooth

Original post by doodle_333

Yes but I believe that opening the door to mentally ill people euthanizing themselves would mean that every depressed person (and anyone else) who was overwhelmed by their difficulties would have the option of a guaranteed successful suicide - you can say safeguards will be put in place as to how long a person has to want euthanasia and proof that their condition is treatment resistant and destroying their quality of life to X level but how long before someone just under those criteria says it's not fair? and the bar gradually lowers

You could use that exact same argument for physical illnesses. Some individuals will always be on the cusp saying it's not fair. I don't think that's a legitimate argument against.

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Reply 64

Fenice

I don't think euthanasia should ever be legal because in Europe and certain states in the US the safeguards that proponents usually claim will guard against overuse and even abuse have consistently let slip. There have been stories in the US of people suffering from non-terminal forms of cancer being offered funding for euthanasia but not for treatment. My view is that the medical profession has a duty to do all it can to keep someone alive and to offer palliative care when needed but assisted dying should never be part of its mission.

I think we have struck a healthy balance in the UK by setting the precedent of setting lenient / suspended sentences for people who effectively euthanise their suffering family members.

Reply 65

Rakas21

This thread disgusts me on a level that few things can. To suggest not only that the state endorse the death of its citizens is one thing but to then suggest that they lower the bar to include people who are clearly not in a fit mental state to make that decision is nothing short of morally decrepit.

:mad:

Reply 66

username861942

Original post by Rakas21

People with mental health needs can have capacity - and wanting to die doesn't mean that someone doesn't have capacity. The Court of Protection have had cases where a person has been allowed to die as they have capacity to make that decision and that any treatment is not in their best interests.

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Reply 67

Anonymous #4

Original post by slot_

So God technically should control your life that you deserve to have a free-will over? You have the free will to go and kill yourself but if you go and appreciate your free will God will not like you? What a nice person God is.

Well he did give people free will and then commit litteral genocide cos he didn't like what people were doing with it (the flood). "All loving" ... just not the gays :P

I don't hate christianity or religion and in some cases I actually think it's really amazing, but I do think sometimes it can be taken too seriously or used in a way it shouldn't be.

As far as it's relation to assisted suicide goes, I do not agree with suicide in most circumstances (though I can understand how people could turn to it as a desperate act or last resort), but don't think that religion should be used as an excuse to make something illegal when not everybody believes in it. Of course it is fine for an individual to hold that belief, act according to it themeslves and voice it respectfully, but I do not think it should be forced upon others.

Reply 68

Rakas21

Original post by bullettheory

I have close relatives with mental health issues. To suggest that they should not only be permitted to commit suicide but that the state will aid them is something that i would consider unforgivable. Euthanasia is wrong!

Reply 69

Anonymous #4

Original post by Fenice

THIS! This is exactly my concern. In an ideal world there would be rigerous measures to ensure that people are in a fit state to be making such a decision, that nothing else would be more appropriate and that people are not pushed in any way towards making the decision. After all of those ensurances people who truly had nowhere else to turn could be allowed assisted euthenasia. But we do not live in an ideal world.
Two years ago I was in such a desperate place that I don't think I would have been far off making that sort of decision if it had been suggested to me or implied as an option. I am now (thanks to treatment) in a stable position and I cannot immagine making such a desperate decision.
I am terrified that if assisted euthenasia were allowed for people with mh problems it would be used as an easy option by some medical professionals as I believe ADs already are. Since Antidepressants are available to stabalise people they are often prescribed but without any form of therapy. I believe that ADs can be an important part of recovery and treatment (I myself took them), but therapy is necessary to facilitate long term recovery and without it people will likely slip back into depression if they stop taking ADs. This is already used as an easy way out and AS could be used in te exact same way. People with mh are desperate and vulnerable and it could be easy to abuse a duty of care to them even more so than it is clearly already being abused by some people.

With that said, I still don't know how I feel about legalisation. I think it's a matter of the lesser of two evils and I just can't decide which is worse- people suffering, or peopledying when there is an alternative. It is a very difficult topic.

Reply 70

Anonymous #5

No I do not agree with euthanasia for mentally ill people, people with such conditions can be helped with therapy and/or medications and they can then live a normal life, so why cut that off? You can't assume that the rest of your life will be miserable just because today was, you just don't know what tomorrow will bring. On the other hand, if someone was dying of terminal cancer, they were rapidly deteriorating, then yeah I say it should be legalised. You should not have to suffer in pain and misery and after all it is your life so if you want to end pain and suffering, why shouldn't you?

Reply 71

Anonymous #4

Original post by ~Tara~

I just wanted to thank you for sharing that. It was really enlightenig and touching.
I wish you all the best in your recovery. :smile:

Reply 72

Martian872

Spock's socks nailed as someone who has Seasonal affective disorder I know that at certain times of year I will want to die rather than live. But it's transient like all depression is, few people suffer from depression all their lives and few people are always depressed. Euthenasia should remain in the sphere of those who have no chance of getting any better, such as those who are in constant pain from cancer, or x.

Reply 73

Alexion

really depends on the case

stories about people who are paralysed, have trouble breathing and have to be fed through a tube but could live for months or years more are really sad... just because we have the technology to keep people clinging onto life it doesn't mean it's always a good thing...

the difference when it comes to mental disorders is that many of those that make you feel suicidal are curable

if there's still a chance of being rehabilitated and living a normal life again, then it should be taken

euthanasia should be allowed but only as a last resort.

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 74

john2054

Original post by Sabertooth

I support this.

Mental illness can be just as awful to suffer from as physical illnesses. I don't think anyone on TSR has the experience of the very worse of mental illnesses - I'm talking in and out of psych hospitals for decades, ECT, super high doses of antipsychotics, severe self-harm, tardive dyskinesia - it's not a way for anyone to live. In a way I think how dare people try to force a person in that position to keep going with promises of "future cures/light at the end of the tunnel". We haven't seen much progress in treating severe mental illness in decades since the advent of typical antipsychotics. Yes there was atypical antipsychotics but they don't "cure" people and have horrible side effects, particularly at high doses not to mention tardive dyskinesia, brain shrinkage, and diabetes.

I've had all of these things actually.

Reply 75

~Tara~

Original post by Anonymous

I just wanted to thank you for sharing that. It was really enlightenig and touching.
I wish you all the best in your recovery. :smile:

Thank you

Reply 76

username861942

Original post by Rakas21

I think our view will always differ as I believe Euthanasia is morally right in the correct circumstances. However, I do believe that those with mental health difficulties can make a capacious decision to end their lives. There is case law where people with long term mental health difficulties refusing life saving treatment have been allowed to die.

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(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 77

GrahamCH

As defined by “MedicineNet.com” physician assisted suicide is, “The voluntary termination of one's own life by administration of a lethal substance with the direct or indirect assistance of a physician. [It] is the practice of providing a competent patient with a prescription for medication for the patient to use with the primary intention of ending his or her own life”. With respect to autonomy; I wholeheartedly agree with giving someone who is suffering the choice to legally end their own life. There must be strict regulations on which circumstances should permit the action of assisted suicide, though. In the case of the girl in the video, Emily, I don’t necessarily agree with granting her the option of euthanasia. She is physically healthy and while mental diseases should be taken seriously, there are plenty of alternate routes she can take to alleviate or manage her depression. Ultimately the decision was hers and her doctors and they granted her request. Watching the end of the video you see that she actually backed out of the euthanasia last minute. This is why I don’t think I support granting physician assisted suicide to those who are mentally ill. When mentally ill, a person cannot be sure they are in their right mind. In Emily’s case, even though she had been avid about ending her own life, she didn’t want to die when it came time for the lethal injection. Numerous survivors of attempted suicide have admitted to regretting their decision and being thankful that they survived. A quote from “empowher.com” says,“To the outside world, a suicidal person's problems may not seem that bad, but this viewpoint doesn't factor in depression. The depressed mind does not think clearly. It makes the depressed person feel overly pessimistic and guilt-ridden, not to mention tired and joyless. In this depressed state, a person has trouble imagining that anything can ever get better. Suicide starts to seem like the only option.” Coming face to face with one’s mortality, like Emily did, gives suicide attempters a new lease on life. I understand that she still has a lot of inner demons to battle, but she said it herself, that the past couple weeks before her lethal injection she didn’t feel as bad as before. I’m all for giving someone an out when their way of life has no possible way of getting better. Why prolong the inevitable and cause economic and emotional hardship on the person and their family? If someone is willing to accept their fate and is living in unimaginable amounts of pain, they should be allowed to live their last moments as they please. In a situation where your own life is out of your control, having the opportunity to decide when to die can be a great reprieve. I just think it should be a last resort, though, especially when one cannot be sure if a person is competent enough to make such a serious decision. I believe people have a right to their own death, as long as there isn’t any other possible way to go about making their way of life better.

Reply 78

Einstein is cool

Suicide For Mental Illness
The argument for assisted suicide is as broad as the general subject. Many people are lucky and are able to live their entire lives without even the slightest impact of mental illness in their lives. They never meet anyone suffering from this disorder, which leads to a gap of understanding unto the lack of physical control that people suffering from this disorder have. There are many disorders that may cause a lack of desire to live among many people. For some people, they grew up with this mental disorder, their parents, unable to comprehend the significance of mental illness, send their child to doctors, schools, etc, in an attempt to get their child to act ‘normal’. Many of these children end up growing up and begin to unleash their lifelong frustrations onto the world.
When I was in middle school, I knew this one kid that everyone dismissed as a complete idiot and therefor, made fun of her, doing little if anything to try and become her friend. One day, my friends and I were sitting on a bench outside during recess, when we saw another student run past us and into the school. I looked down and saw a trail of blood trailing behind this person. It was only later that we discovered that the girl with mental illness had finally had enough, she apparently sucker punch the person who was bullying her. I guess that she had finally had enough and since most of the kids did not come to help, she decided to take matters into her own hands, literally. The principal of the school ended up giving the girl a weeks detention for injuring another student. To the surprise of the principal, the girl claimed that she did not mean to hurt the other student, however, for a brief second she had temporally lost control. Many people suffering mental illness have practically no control over their actions and often, despite their own wishes, in stressful situations they can unwillingly snap and cause damage to other around them. Though this incident is an example of people who were born with mental illness, other people might acquire some type of mental illness later in their life. In an article titled “ My right to die”, Kevin Drum states “Now he was. Finally, on the evening of January 29, he stumbled and fell during the night, and decided his time had come: He was afraid if he delayed any longer he'd become physically unable to remain in control of his own destiny.”(Drum). In this case, the patient suffering from this disease felt that they would be unable to be in control of their life should they have to live with this disease any longer, which, as a response, the patient asked if the doctors could end his life. At the end of the day, the old sang ‘the punishment fits the crime’ is the best way to judge whether a person should die because of a crime that they commit or a crime that they might commit. If someone goes out and kills a person out of their own free will and not under any mental illness, than that person should be put to death. However, if a person commits that same crime and has a mental disorder, than that person might have been mentally in control when the incident happened. As a result, the person with a mental illness should be placed into a mental hospital for life. Though I feel that every person has the right to live or to die, others, such as Ryan T. Anderson argue “ Physicians are always to care, never to kill” (Anderson). By this, anderson implies that though a person does have the right to determine whether they live or die, physicians do not have the right to put their patients to death. Despite the opinion of Anderson, according to Andrew Bair of ‘Life News’, “The D.C. Council has voted to advance legislation to legalize doctor-prescribed suicide in the nation’s capital.”(Bair). Despite many peoples opinion, I feel that this is a positive step toward giving people the right to control their lives. As long as the person is of sound mind, that person has the right to determine whether they wish to take their life. What do you all think?

Drum, Kevin. “My Right to Die” Mother Jones, http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/01/assisted-suicide-legalization-california-kevin-drum

Anderson, Ryan. “ DC City Council Votes to Allow Physician-Assisted Suicide. That’ll Change Us All, for the Worse” The Daily Signal, http://dailysignal.com/2016/11/01/dc-city-council-votes-to-allow-physician-assisted-suicide-thatll-change-us-all-for-the-worse/

Bair, Andrew. “ Washington DC Passes Dangerous Bill to Legalize Assisted Suicide” Life News, http://www.lifenews.com/2016/11/01/washington-dc-passes-dangerous-bill-to-legalize-assisted-suicide/

Reply 79

Einstein is cool

The argument for assisted suicide is as broad as the general subject. Many people are lucky and are able to live their entire lives without even the slightest impact of mental illness in their lives. They never meet anyone suffering from this disorder, which leads to a gap of understanding unto the lack of physical control that people suffering from this disorder have. There are many disorders that may cause a lack of desire to live among many people. For some people, they grew up with this mental disorder, their parents, unable to comprehend the significance of mental illness, send their child to doctors, schools, etc, in an attempt to get their child to act ‘normal’. Many of these children end up growing up and begin to unleash their lifelong frustrations onto the world. When I was in middle school, I knew this one kid that everyone dismissed as a complete idiot and therefor, made fun of her, doing little if anything to try and become her friend. One day, my friends and I were sitting on a bench outside during recess, when we saw another student run past us and into the school. I looked down and saw a trail of blood trailing behind this person. It was only later that we discovered that the girl with mental illness had finally had enough, she apparently sucker punch the person who was bullying her. I guess that she had finally had enough and since most of the kids did not come to help, she decided to take matters into her own hands, literally. The principal of the school ended up giving the girl a weeks detention for injuring another student. To the surprise of the principal, the girl claimed that she did not mean to hurt the other student, however, for a brief second she had temporally lost control. Many people suffering mental illness have practically no control over their actions and often, despite their own wishes, in stressful situations they can unwillingly snap and cause damage to other around them. Though this incident is an example of people who were born with mental illness, other people might acquire some type of mental illness later in their life. In an article titled “My right to die”, Kevin Drum states “Now he was. Finally, on the evening of January 29, he stumbled and fell during the night, and decided his time had come: He was afraid if he delayed any longer he'd become physically unable to remain in control of his own destiny.”(Drum). In this case, the patient suffering from this disease felt that they would be unable to be in control of their life should they have to live with this disease any longer, which, as a response, the patient asked if the doctors could end his life. At the end of the day, the old sang ‘the punishment fits the crime’ is the best way to judge whether a person should die because of a crime that they commit or a crime that they might commit. If someone goes out and kills a person out of their own free will and not under any mental illness, than that person should be put to death. However, if a person commits that same crime and has a mental disorder, than that person might have been mentally in control when the incident happened. As a result, the person with a mental illness should be placed into a mental hospital for life. Though I feel that every person has the right to live or to die, others, such as Ryan T. Anderson argue “ Physicians are always to care, never to kill” (Anderson). By this, anderson implies that though a person does have the right to determine whether they live or die, physicians do not have the right to put their patients to death. Despite the opinion of Anderson, according to Andrew Bair of ‘Life News’, “The D.C. Council has voted to advance legislation to legalize doctor-prescribed suicide in the nation’s capital.”(Bair). Despite many peoples opinion, I feel that this is a positive step toward giving people the right to control their lives. As long as the person is of sound mind, that person has the right to determine whether they wish to take their life. What do you all think?

Drum, Kevin. “My Right to Die” Mother Jones, http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/01/assisted-suicide-legalization-california-kevin-drum

Anderson, Kevin. “ DC City Council Votes to Allow Physician-Assisted Suicide. That’ll Change Us All, for the Worse” The Daily Signal, http://dailysignal.com/2016/11/01/dc-city-council-votes-to-allow-physician-assisted-suicide-thatll-change-us-all-for-the-worse/ Bair,

Andrew. “ Washington DC Passes Dangerous Bill to Legalize Assisted Suicide” Life News, http://www.lifenews.com/2016/11/01/washington-dc-passes-dangerous-bill-to-legalize-assisted-suicide/