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Pakistan vs India

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Pakistan zindabad!
It's fun seeing people talk about stuff they dont even know about. All the stuff on media is biased when it comes to india v pakistan. Simple truth is, these countries will never stop fighting as long as there are people preaching hate to young ones on both sides, which i doubt will stop anytime soon, with media constantly manipulating people, and stories popping up which are one sided always.
Original post by Zamestaneh
Pork is Haram for Muslims to eat not because it is sacred, but because pigs are unclean and Allah has commanded us not to eat it, so it should have no bearing on what Hindus eat or don't eat (so that is a misunderstanding on their part, and therefore it is not comparable to beef) because eating pork doesn't offend us. Also, there is nothing in Sikhi (as far as I am aware) which teaches that cows are sacred. Rather it was only said to refrain from consuming them during Ranjit Singh's rule as to not offend the Hindus.


Yes genius i know pork is haram in islam and cow is sacred to Hindus, sects of Sikhism, I'm not dumb. Yes Islam is the best religion and what not now shut up please idc . Refraining from eating beef is better than living under inhumane sharia law for indian muslims anyways ,If refraining from beef eating is the cost of democracy then so be it, better than living under isis or in iran or saudi .Please stop your sermons, yes it is sacred to sikh who are ravidassia and Kabir panthi sikh, dera saccha sauda followers and members of Radha swami satsangh Vyas( many sikh are members) satsangh and Nirankaris, people who followed sant nirankari baba and various other sects etc
Also all amritdhari sikh are totally vegetarians
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by Idunno99
Yes genius i know pork is haram in islam and cow is sacred to Hindus, sects of Sikhism, I'm not dumb. Yes Islam is the best religion and what not now shut up please idc . Refraining from eating beef is better than living under inhumane sharia law for indian muslims anyways ,If refraining from beef eating is the cost of democracy then so be it, better than living under isis or in iran or saudi .Please stop your sermons, yes it is sacred to sikh who are ravidassia and Kabir panthi sikh, dera saccha sauda followers and members of Radha swami satsangh Vyas( many sikh are members) satsangh and Nirankaris, people who followed sant nirankari baba and various other sects etc
Also all amritdhari sikh are totally vegetarians


You haven't even addressed my point - my point was avoiding pork out of respect for Muslim beliefs if is a load of rubbish since consuming it doesn't offend us.

You have not shown why cows are religiously sacred to Sikhs from a textual point of view (i.e. referenced this view). Radha Swamis don't consider cows sacred from a teaching point of view, nor do Amritdharis (being vegetarian doesnt make cows sacred); idk about the rest as I am not familiar with them.
Original post by AlvlVictim
The speech — “You are free, you are free to go to your temples, you are free to go to your mosques or any other place of worship in this State of Pakistan. You may belong to any religion or cast or creed — that has nothing to do with the business of the State ... Now I think we should keep that in front of us as our ideal and you will find that in course of time Hindus would cease to be Hindus and Muslims would cease to be Muslims, not in the religious sense, because that is the personal faith of each individual, but in the political sense as citizens of the State” — in which the Quaid explicitly spoke of giving equal rights and freedom

anyone can make a nice speech - it is irrelevant, all you have to look is at both countries, india ( by no means perfect lets remember ) became a secular democracy where a sikh a muslim hindu buddhist etc could become president.

pakistan became an islamist state, an enclave for extremeists and a hive for fundamentalist dictats from the middle east , and the islamic worlds terrorist factory. and in the same time pakistan went from pre partition area of economic strneght and education, to the current failed experiment

there is a reason why india is home to 6 of the worlds major religions unlike pakistan
Original post by 123chem
It's fun seeing people talk about stuff they dont even know about. All the stuff on media is biased when it comes to india v pakistan. Simple truth is, these countries will never stop fighting as long as there are people preaching hate to young ones on both sides, which i doubt will stop anytime soon, with media constantly manipulating people, and stories popping up which are one sided always.


Conflicts that transcend generations are perpetuated because of ideological reasons such as religion or nationalism. Children are not born wanting to hate, kill, steal, etc. The adults are to blame for this.

I like it when people agree with me...
Original post by Zamestaneh
You haven't even addressed my point - my point was avoiding pork out of respect for Muslim beliefs if is a load of rubbish since consuming it doesn't offend us.

You have not shown why cows are religiously sacred to Sikhs from a textual point of view (i.e. referenced this view). Radha Swamis don't consider cows sacred from a teaching point of view, nor do Amritdharis (being vegetarian doesnt make cows sacred); idk about the rest as I am not familiar with them.


In that case idk what the reason is then but i have been all over India , lived in India since i was born and have never seen beef and pork on restaurant menus, being served/sacrificed in mosques like Jama masjid or Haji ali dargah even on occasions like bakr- eid but seen them sacrifice thousands of goat and sheep, people of any religion cooking or eating pork or beef
No cows are not "religiously" sacred to the sikh and sikhism does promote vegetarianism
Maybe this is way of showing respect to the fellow hindu countrymen who are 80% of India then taking their religious sentiments into consideration maybe also to respect the decision of muslims , who are 14% of India
So both quite large religious groups and both of them want to be accepting, tolerant and want to be on friendly terms and be united with each other, prevent religious violence. Other Indian religions(like sikhism 1.7%) , Baha i, parsis, Christians are 6%.
Maybe the factor that 60-70% of Indias pop is vegetarian so maybe that is a factor idk
I have seen the sermons of Radha swamis (notice that the name of their organization has Radha in it ,who is featured along with Krishna in Vedic mythology)
and they consider both the granth sahib and the gita, vedas etc sacred and often quote stuff from the bhagwat gita alongside the granth sahib, sooo
Considering the gita sacred= considering cows sacred
Considering cows sacred= Abstaining from consumption of beef and not letting cow slaughter happen
So i guess you get the idea

Yes amritdharis consumption of all meat is banned
Maybe traditions and beliefs followed by ancestors for 3000-4000+ years are kinda hard to totally change.
There are many sikh sects that ban beef consumption, many of them are somewhat something consisting of both sikh and hindu beliefs ( account for 20-30% of Sikh in Indian Punjab like kabirpanthi, Raviddassia and many others that try to connect both beliefs with using shlokas and sculptures in the vedas, puranas, epics gita that identify god as formless and say that idol worship exists not to defy a formless god but to connect closer to him just like "Akal Murta" or "IK Onkar" and stuff and lots of other stuff aswell and what not) so maybe to keep them in confidence and associated with Sikhism sikh organisations like shiromani akali gurudwara prabandhak committee decided to preach against beef eating also political parties like shiromani akali dal
If this may be of any relevance then i might aswell add that the followers of these sects like ravidassia and kabir panthi predominantly consist of people from the so called "Lower castes" and Cast based discrimination, honor killings and violence is not uncommon in Punjab and even among the sikh here even when it has nothing to do with our religion. For eg recently i saw news of a Jatt sikh womans family, who had fallen in love with a "lower caste" man refusing to get them married and killing them when they ran away from home and messed up stuff like this, so i guess the so called "lower castes" did not feel like they belonged and kinda drifted away i guess maybe that could be a possibility but idk
This problem exist among Muslims aswell, muslims of arabic origin discriminating against muslims of indian origin, uppar caste muslims (eg Rajput )discriminating against lower caste, muslims beating up muslims who try to leave islam
Im a Jatt Sikh myself and have seen dalts being illogically discriminated by members of my own community but now everything is changing fast and India is progressing rapidly economically as well as socially with the highest growth rate among major world economies like 7.6% in financial year 2015-16
So maybe all this is related but **** is complicated
Just trying to be unbiased on this one
(edited 7 years ago)
So Muslims would rather not eat beef because it might offend some Hindus but defy their own religion in which sacrifice of cow is a popular act BTW your constitution doesn't stand for **** when u can't apply it practically so stop calling us a failed state u are in no way better it would be fair to say we are doing better these days thanks to CPEC
Original post by AlvlVictim
So Muslims would rather not eat beef because it might offend some Hindus but defy their own religion in which sacrifice of cow is a popular act BTW your constitution doesn't stand for **** when u can't apply it practically so stop calling us a failed state u are in no way better it would be fair to say we are doing better these days thanks to CPEC


Has Pakistan ever had a Hindu/Sikh/ Biddhist/Ahmadiyya President?
Lmao Fact- Our 20 largest companies have (individually) annual revenues double the total cost of your CPEC project( 46 billion $ according to dawn)
Our largest seven companies that are members of Fortune 500 have , if combined
Have massively larger Net worths than the whole economy of Pakistan combined and doubled
While Pakistan has only one company that is even in the fortune 2000 Forbes list while India has a massive number on there

Pakistans total nominal GDP =285 Billion US$ (2016)
Net worths of 4 largest private sector Indian corporates-
Reliance Industries= 90 billion US $(2016)
Tata group = 117 billion US$ (2016)
Aditya Birla Group= 41 Billion US$ ( 2014)
Arcelor Mittal= 76.84 billion US$US$ (2014)
So the total comes down to 324.84 billion US$
324billion US$ is greater than 285 billion US$
Indian companies ( as per nationality) are third largest foreign investors in the UK( eg Jaguar land rover is owned by Tata group)
Our automotive sector is second only to Japan in Asia
Our IT/Software sector one of the largest in the world
While our Pharmaceutical sector (eg Sun Pharmaceuticals, kudos to Dilip sanghvi) is one of the most efficient and cost effective in the world. While being cheaper(1/3rd in terms of cost) than its American and european counterparts it is able to maintain the same high quality and is exported through out the world

Our companies are everywhere!
In every sector and in every major economy

We dont have to beg foreign countries for aid
Bruh

Pakistani economy is non existent as compaired to India. Even Israel has a bigger one, you cant even compete with our zionist allies, shame on you lol

Yes Pakistani economy is better than the Indian economy, and is developing faster lol you are misinformed lmao



Also remember that India is one of the largest economies in Asia while pakistan is one of the weakest. India is the fastest growing economy in the world right now growing at 7.6% in FY 2015-16 while Pak economy grew at 4.5%. India is ahead of China in terms of growth rate as Chinese economy is slowing down
It is India's time to shine now
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by Lord Samosa
Read through this thread and you'll understand why I gave up on hoping for peace between Indians and Pakistanis, when you still have *******s in this world.

I do feel bad for Indian Muslims though, who have to listen to constant anti-Muslim rhetoric by certain Indians. Otherwise they could've been the ones we can look at to say Muslims and other Indian religions can live in harmony.


If only India would treat religious minorities as well as Pakistan does eh. Oh wait....
Original post by AlvlVictim
So Muslims would rather not eat beef because it might offend some Hindus but defy their own religion in which sacrifice of cow is a popular act BTW your constitution doesn't stand for **** when u can't apply it practically so stop calling us a failed state u are in no way better it would be fair to say we are doing better these days thanks to CPEC


At least we treat our minorities waaayyyyy ( at least a million times),better than you do
(edited 7 years ago)
When was the last time someone got killed/raped in Pakistan on false accusations of eating beef? I will wait
Original post by AlvlVictim
When was the last time someone got killed/raped in Pakistan on false accusations of eating beef? I will wait

You cant even give the right to practise any religion to your minorities other than Islam.
Original post by AlvlVictim
When was the last time someone got killed/raped in Pakistan on false accusations of eating beef? I will wait

You cant even give the right to practise any religion to your minorities other than Islam.
And you treat the ahmadiyyah, Baluchi, hazara, shia, Hindu, sikh and every non sunni muslim like crap
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by KimKallstrom
If only India would treat religious minorities as well as Pakistan does eh. Oh wait....


If I was Indian or not Pakistani you wouldn't be saying this. I even said I'd like to see better relations to prove different religions can live peacefully.

I don't know why I try though, talk to any Pakistani or Indian about their country and it's like talking to a brick wall, both think they're the best most amazing god damn country in the world with nothing wrong with them :lol: Patriotism is a cancer
Original post by Lord Samosa
I guess the main point I wanna say is we need to learn to distinguish between the culprit and the group they belong to, there would've been Muslims who had no issues with Sikhs in those days with the Guru's. If the Guru's were accepting of Muslims (those who did no wrong) and people of all religions, then so should we. (Or to aspire to be like that)

It's down to us to explain our history or religion's history to our future generations, but to do so clearly and ensure it isn't taken the wrong way that promotes some hatred to entire groups (which is against the core principle of nearly every religion anyway)

Spoiler



Well the fact is that for most crucial decisions in history it was only one person who made that decision, but you cant just blame that one person, you have to blame the group as it is the group who gave that person the power to make the decision.
Original post by Idunno99
You cant even give the right to practise any religion to your minorities other than Islam.
And you treat the ahmadiyyah, Baluchi, hazara, shia, Hindu, sikh and every non sunni muslim like crap


******** we are spending an incredible amount of money to protect shias and hazaran community this muharram which we have been doing since RAW backed agencies started carrying out terrorism acts on then.We welcome thousands of sikh pilgrims every year.Speaking if Hindus I think u didn't see the article I shared in one of my previous replies I understand u have a very short attention span and are unable to absorb things that are contradicting your state propaganda but pls try
Original post by samendrag
Well the fact is that for most crucial decisions in history it was only one person who made that decision, but you cant just blame that one person, you have to blame the group as it is the group who gave that person the power to make the decision.


Which group is to blame though? Muslims were still a minority in the Mughal Empire, if anything Hindus being the majority are to blame to allow that to happen going by your logic. The Mughals weren't democratically elected.

Or are you saying the Mughals and those in position of power are to blame? In which case I don't disagree with you.
Original post by Lord Samosa
Which group is to blame though? Muslims were still a minority in the Mughal Empire, if anything Hindus being the majority are to blame to allow that to happen going by your logic. The Mughals weren't democratically elected.

Or are you saying the Mughals and those in position of power are to blame? In which case I don't disagree with you.


True that mughals werent elected so in that case, I agree that the Mughals are to blame but when people in power are elected the people should also be to blame. You can work out the implications for yourself, though sometimes I do agree that governments do things which the public do not approve of but I guess that is out of our control. But people do tend to generalise and the fact is that you cannot go against everyone as that will just create more hatred and will just emphasise your differences.
Original post by samendrag
True that mughals werent elected so in that case, I agree that the Mughals are to blame but when people in power are elected the people should also be to blame. You can work out the implications for yourself, though sometimes I do agree that governments do things which the public do not approve of but I guess that is out of our control. But people do tend to generalise and the fact is that you cannot go against everyone as that will just create more hatred and will just emphasise your differences.


But sometimes the government can misinform their population or divert attention elsewhere.

For example: a terrorist attack happens in Pakistan, a few news outlets will definitely claim it was orchestrated by India. A terrorist attack happens in India, a few news outlets will definitely claim it was orchestrated by Pakistan.

Now both countries can easily blame the other country to avoid blame on themselves and even show themselves being tough with strong statements to maintain support for themselves. (If you admit to simply not controlling terrorists in your own country, you look weak as a leader, blaming it on someone else and you can point fingers and rally your people behind you).

When you have patriotic people, it's easy to get them emotional and manipulate them. Avoiding any attention on your shortcomings or incompetence in your leadership, and diverting attention away from other internal issues.

Both India and Pakistan have plenty of internal issues to address, but when the focus turns on each other at times like this, everybody forgets about it.
(edited 7 years ago)

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