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TSR Med Students' Society Part VI

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Original post by That Bearded Man
Schools can be created, hospitals?

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But can they by 2018? Sure, a gradual rise over the next few years, or an increase by 2020, but there isn't that much time to be creating new medical schools. Or drastically increasing the size of current ones.

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Original post by That Bearded Man
Schools can be created, hospitals?

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Thats what I mean, the issue of a school being created (other than financially of course) isn't to big, its having the access to a decent sized hospital and surrounding clinics which have adequate facilities to take on a large number of medical students and sufficiently train them. Most medical schools run linked to large teaching hospitals (or in many cases a few teaching hospitals), which have facilities for these students... I am just confused how hunt is going to pull 1500 med school places out of thin air really.
Original post by ForestCat
But can they by 2018? Sure, a gradual rise over the next few years, or an increase by 2020, but there isn't that much time to be creating new medical schools. Or drastically increasing the size of current ones.

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By 2018? Probably not, but I could picture a proposal to create a small scale medical school, they'd be familiar with the syllabus, need only buy equipment and hey presto, you could start taking students in 2019. Heck, they could go digital or PBL. Minimal contact time.

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Original post by Natalierm2707
Thats what I mean, the issue of a school being created (other than financially of course) isn't to big, its having the access to a decent sized hospital and surrounding clinics which have adequate facilities to take on a large number of medical students and sufficiently train them. Most medical schools run linked to large teaching hospitals (or in many cases a few teaching hospitals), which have facilities for these students... I am just confused how hunt is going to pull 1500 med school places out of thin air really.


Is it that simple though? What curriculum would these schools use? Create their own (which isn't quick) and then have to get it past the GMC, or buy one from an existing med school?

Who is going to deliver this teaching? Medical schools aren't small departments. Are you going to staff it with all academic staff, or clinicians too. Are you going to be pulling clinicians away from the front line nhs service and thus compounding staff shortages?

Who is going to teach clinical skills? If your local hospital doesn't have an appropriate and large enough centre, you're going to have to do it in house. That means an expensive out lay for a suitable building and equipment, plus staff.

Hunt has gone for the big headline again but doesn't have half a ****s idea about how to implement it.

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Original post by Natalierm2707
Thats what I mean, the issue of a school being created (other than financially of course) isn't to big, its having the access to a decent sized hospital and surrounding clinics which have adequate facilities to take on a large number of medical students and sufficiently train them. Most medical schools run linked to large teaching hospitals (or in many cases a few teaching hospitals), which have facilities for these students... I am just confused how hunt is going to pull 1500 med school places out of thin air really.


The simple answer is that everyone else just squishes over, new hospitals won't be built to accommodate so actual clinic time will fall. Placements will have less teaching and more free roaming.

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Original post by Natalierm2707
I am just confused how hunt is going to pull 1500 med school places out of thin air really.


I don't think its his style to think that far ahead.
Original post by ForestCat
Is it that simple though? What curriculum would these schools use? Create their own (which isn't quick) and then have to get it past the GMC, or buy one from an existing med school?

Who is going to deliver this teaching? Medical schools aren't small departments. Are you going to staff it with all academic staff, or clinicians too. Are you going to be pulling clinicians away from the front line nhs service and thus compounding staff shortages?

Who is going to teach clinical skills? If your local hospital doesn't have an appropriate and large enough centre, you're going to have to do it in house. That means an expensive out lay for a suitable building and equipment, plus staff.

Hunt has gone for the big headline again but doesn't have half a ****s idea about how to implement it.

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I foresee private firms offering to "teach" medical students at university, so the uni outsources to a firm who hires medical students or other healthcare professionals to run it, rather than clinical staff.

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Original post by ForestCat
Is it that simple though? What curriculum would these schools use? Create their own (which isn't quick) and then have to get it past the GMC, or buy one from an existing med school?

Who is going to deliver this teaching? Medical schools aren't small departments. Are you going to staff it with all academic staff, or clinicians too. Are you going to be pulling clinicians away from the front line nhs service and thus compounding staff shortages?

Who is going to teach clinical skills? If your local hospital doesn't have an appropriate and large enough centre, you're going to have to do it in house. That means an expensive out lay for a suitable building and equipment, plus staff.

Hunt has gone for the big headline again but doesn't have half a ****s idea about how to implement it.

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No you are so right, it is nowhere near that simple.

I personally do think some medical schools might increase their intake slightly (were talking by like 10-20 students) as this may be possible for some, but for others there is no chance.
like you said it takes years to develop a medical school with a good curriculum, placement accessibility, adequate teaching staff both in academics and clinicians and have good enough equiptment and resources to get students to graduating level. If you look at most medical schools today it has taken years for them to get to where they are now, I dont think hunt really has a clue.
I have a Developmental Paediatric OSCE tomorrow! On the wards as opposed to in a Developmental Clinic due to consultant time-constraints.

I've been told it's mainly history based talking to the parent(s). Asking about the pregnancy of course. Would you really expect mum to know whether previous developmental milestones were on-time. i.e. "What age did they start crawling?". Things like pincer grasp could be hard to get from history.


Rather unsure what to expect :tongue: I know my developmental milestones for the relevant ages (6 months to 4 years). I would have got the child to play with toys in an area of open space but that's unpractical in a bay of six.

Examination wise- Tone, Arm & Leg reflexes. Hypermobile joints?
Then there is: Gross Motor, Fine Motor, Speech/Language/Hearing & Social categories. They'll likely be mainly history based questions due to space constraints/inappropriate setting (And they are unwell children as they are inpatients for other things).
Does this sound reasonable? Only one I have to do in the entirety of medical school and had very little tips on what exactly I should be doing....

I'm overthinking this but it's an important OSCE! To the level of an F1.
(edited 7 years ago)
The referendum vote made me slightly concerned about my future as a future doctor trained in the EU with potentially more obstacles to get back home if I were to want to move back for whatever reason. Now I'm back to being quite content with my path, given the 4 year nonsense! How utterly absurd.
Really disappointed in everything I am reading so far, what a great time to join medical school
If you were looking to scale rapidly, you could probably convert a few 3 year Biomed courses into '3 year preclinical' courses (a la St Andrews) quite easily, and then ship the students to clinical schools wherever there's spare capacity. Couple that with seriously reduced expectations of the quality of clinical teaching, a big boost to the Bucks/UCLan/etc private schools, the establishment of two or three brand new medical schools, and die-back of EU and international students due to increased fees (which would delight the home office and their migration targets, no doubt), and you could just about manage it within 5 years.
Original post by Zain-A
Really disappointed in everything I am reading so far, what a great time to join medical school


Its great to feel that your decision to apply to medical school and join the profession with the most respect and value as an employee when the government sees you as an expensive, arrogant, underworked, selfish waste of oxygen.....and the public starts too as well.

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Reply 713
Avatar for Beska
Beska
21
Is the max you're allowed out of programme after the FP prior to CMT two years? Is that right?
Original post by That Bearded Man
Its great to feel that your decision to apply to medical school and join the profession with the most respect and value as an employee when the government sees you as an expensive, arrogant, underworked, selfish waste of oxygen.....and the public starts too as well.


Excellent summary.

I genuinely think the public still has a good view of doctors. The fact that the government is actively doing everything it can to change that is one of the more depressing points of all.

Original post by Beska
Is the max you're allowed out of programme after the FP prior to CMT two years? Is that right?


Three years according to this
http://www.ct1recruitment.org.uk/recruitment-process/am-i-eligible/foundation-competences
Original post by Beska
Is the max you're allowed out of programme after the FP prior to CMT two years? Is that right?


Whoa. I didn't know there was a limit
Reply 716
Avatar for Beska
Beska
21
Original post by nexttime


Ah great cheers!

Original post by Ghotay
Whoa. I didn't know there was a limit


Yeh I remember it being mentioned at some point so you gotta be careful if your F3 turns into an F4, F5... year.
Original post by Ghotay
Whoa. I didn't know there was a limit


I've heard of people doing longer, but they were quite exceptional e.g. someone who helped run a paediatric hospital in Sudan for 4 years (applying for paeds).

It depends who you ask but a lot of consultants will tell you not to take more than 2 years out as it 'looks bad'.
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by Ghotay
Whoa. I didn't know there was a limit


For CST it's a maximum of 18 months post FY surgical experience. So even FY4 is a stretch as you'd have to go do something non-surgical for a bit.*
Original post by Becca-Sarah
For CST it's a maximum of 18 months post FY surgical experience. So even FY4 is a stretch as you'd have to go do something non-surgical for a bit.*


I always find it weird when people use 'FY3/4' to mean working. At my med school it always referred to taking time away from medicine/going to Australia intending to spend at least half the time travelling.

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