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Original post by pikachu2dd
I was at spitalfields market at an alcoholic drinks event inside the market. Bouncers were stopping people leaving the event with drinks at the exits. I took my drink out and didnt listen to what they said and kept walking past them. Then one bouncer ran over and grabbed me - told me I couldnt leave with my drink.
I think I've cracked this case...
if you're not abiding by what the bouncers are telling you to do, it's likely that you're breaking the contractual terms of admission, and hence, they have a right to remove you if you won't remove yourself
whether or not they used too much force is kind of neither here nor there, seeing as you kind of incured their wrath by, like you said, ignoring them...
but I know how you feel - I've been kicked out of various clubs and venues before.
(edited 7 years ago)
OP is an immature child who does not realise that any and all venue staff have the right to use reasonable force to remove someone from the premises ... Most venues tend to restrict hands on action to SIA badged staff and Managers because of governance reasons, but given the number of 'glass collectors' in some venues who are people disqualified from holding an SIA badge but who have extendsive history of door work ...
it may also have been a licensing condition with regard to drinks outside stuff .
I also suspect that the OP 's attempt at erudite and witty courtroom advocacy is infact the ranting and *******speak of someone who is drunk and /or disorderly meaning the power of ejection is S143 licensing act 2003
Section 3 criminal law act 1967 may also be relevant as the defence thatthe force was used unlawfully is thatthe force was used to prevent further criminality ...
it may also have been a licensing condition with regard to drinks outside stuff .
I also suspect that the OP 's attempt at erudite and witty courtroom advocacy is infact the ranting and *******speak of someone who is drunk and /or disorderly meaning the power of ejection is S143 licensing act 2003
Section 3 criminal law act 1967 may also be relevant as the defence thatthe force was used unlawfully is thatthe force was used to prevent further criminality ...
Original post by sleepysnooze
if you're not abiding by what the bouncers are telling you to do, it's likely that you're breaking the contractual terms of admission, and hence, they have a right to remove you if you won't remove yourself
if you're not abiding by what the bouncers are telling you to do, it's likely that you're breaking the contractual terms of admission, and hence, they have a right to remove you if you won't remove yourself
Original post by zippyRN
OP is an immature child who does not realise that any and all venue staff have the right to use reasonable force to remove someone from the premises
He was removing himself from the premises - the bouncers were attempting to prevent him doing so. s 143 Licensing Act 2003 has no application where a person is attempting to leave licensed premises.
s 3 Criminal Law Act 1967 doesn't allow anyone to use reasonable force in 'preventing criminality', it allows anyone to use reasonable force in making an arrest. The bouncer wasn't purporting to arrest him.
I would be pretty surprised if the bouncer was acting lawfully here.
Original post by Forum User
He was removing himself from the premises - the bouncers were attempting to prevent him doing so. s 143 Licensing Act 2003 has no application where a person is attempting to leave licensed premises.
s 3 Criminal Law Act 1967 doesn't allow anyone to use reasonable force in 'preventing criminality', it allows anyone to use reasonable force in making an arrest. The bouncer wasn't purporting to arrest him.
I would be pretty surprised if the bouncer was acting lawfully here.
s 3 Criminal Law Act 1967 doesn't allow anyone to use reasonable force in 'preventing criminality', it allows anyone to use reasonable force in making an arrest. The bouncer wasn't purporting to arrest him.
I would be pretty surprised if the bouncer was acting lawfully here.
S3 Criminal Law act
"(1)A person may use such force as is reasonable in the circumstances in the prevention of crime, or in effecting or assisting in the lawful arrest of offenders or suspected offenders or of persons unlawfully at large.
(2)Subsection (1) above shall replace the rules of the common law on the question when force used for a purpose mentioned in the subsection is justified by that purpose."
my emboldening
The bouncer almost certainly was acting lawfully especially once the OP began to behave in a disorderly manner, then of course there is the usual way in such immature cockwombles and spunktrumpets manage to complete one or more of s 4 , s4a or S5 public order to compound being drunk and disorderly or S143 related offences
exactly how much operational experience o nthe frontline do you have in the night time environment ?
Original post by zippyRN
S3 Criminal Law act
"(1)A person may use such force as is reasonable in the circumstances in the prevention of crime, or in effecting or assisting in the lawful arrest of offenders or suspected offenders or of persons unlawfully at large.
(2)Subsection (1) above shall replace the rules of the common law on the question when force used for a purpose mentioned in the subsection is justified by that purpose."
my emboldening
The bouncer almost certainly was acting lawfully especially once the OP began to behave in a disorderly manner, then of course there is the usual way in such immature cockwombles and spunktrumpets manage to complete one or more of s 4 , s4a or S5 public order to compound being drunk and disorderly or S143 related offences
exactly how much operational experience o nthe frontline do you have in the night time environment ?
"(1)A person may use such force as is reasonable in the circumstances in the prevention of crime, or in effecting or assisting in the lawful arrest of offenders or suspected offenders or of persons unlawfully at large.
(2)Subsection (1) above shall replace the rules of the common law on the question when force used for a purpose mentioned in the subsection is justified by that purpose."
my emboldening
The bouncer almost certainly was acting lawfully especially once the OP began to behave in a disorderly manner, then of course there is the usual way in such immature cockwombles and spunktrumpets manage to complete one or more of s 4 , s4a or S5 public order to compound being drunk and disorderly or S143 related offences
exactly how much operational experience o nthe frontline do you have in the night time environment ?
You've made many incorrect assumptions here - first off I did not behave in any disorderly manner, I was speaking to the bouncer 1 on 1 for several minutes, where he actually admitted that he had unlawfully grabbed me and had no right to do so. Albeit that didn't stop him doing it again several minutes later.
Second I had not drunk anything, was 100% sober (the drink was my friends).
If you think fighting for your freedom and your rights as an individual in a democracy against people who abuse their positions and try to take power over you is immature, then I fear you are the only immature spunktrumpet.
I voluntarily said I was going to leave, and peacefully - he did not know what I was going to do with the drink - therefore cannot presume I am committing an unlawful act (whatever that may be).
Do not make so many presumptions - this man clearly had control issues and took an aggressive stance when I called him out on his non existent power.
The use of force was in no way justified whatsoever - I had committed no crime, nor showed an intention too.
Also this event occured in the daytime....
You should be ashamed of yourself answering in a such childish manner - standing up for the freedom and non oppression of people is divine. People like you who defend sick abusive power hungry individuals are just as bad as them.
Not sure about legally because not sure about legality of taking a drink outside i.e I believe you can't drink on the streets and a bar can get in trouble for letting customers take drinks away.
However I am thinking that doesn't mean the law says they can use force against you, I would say its a bouncer thinking they are the authority on everything I remember in my drinking days either being outright sober or having one or two shots and bouncers doing things like grab drinks out of my hand or demand I leave "or else" at closing time (despite drinking up time being allowed in law) and speaking down to me and others as if we were children.
I also know it was illegal when a security guard blocked an exit when my dad had a dwp appointment a few years ago and the cheek being when my dad gave him many opportunities to move he knocked past him the security guard was screaming how he would call the police on my dad for assault.
However I am thinking that doesn't mean the law says they can use force against you, I would say its a bouncer thinking they are the authority on everything I remember in my drinking days either being outright sober or having one or two shots and bouncers doing things like grab drinks out of my hand or demand I leave "or else" at closing time (despite drinking up time being allowed in law) and speaking down to me and others as if we were children.
I also know it was illegal when a security guard blocked an exit when my dad had a dwp appointment a few years ago and the cheek being when my dad gave him many opportunities to move he knocked past him the security guard was screaming how he would call the police on my dad for assault.
Original post by pikachu2dd
You've made many incorrect assumptions here - first off I did not behave in any disorderly manner, I was speaking to the bouncer 1 on 1 for several minutes, where he actually admitted that he had unlawfully grabbed me and had no right to do so. Albeit that didn't stop him doing it again several minutes later.
Second I had not drunk anything, was 100% sober (the drink was my friends).
If you think fighting for your freedom and your rights as an individual in a democracy against people who abuse their positions and try to take power over you is immature, then I fear you are the only immature spunktrumpet.
I voluntarily said I was going to leave, and peacefully - he did not know what I was going to do with the drink - therefore cannot presume I am committing an unlawful act (whatever that may be).
Do not make so many presumptions - this man clearly had control issues and took an aggressive stance when I called him out on his non existent power.
The use of force was in no way justified whatsoever - I had committed no crime, nor showed an intention too.
Also this event occured in the daytime....
You should be ashamed of yourself answering in a such childish manner - standing up for the freedom and non oppression of people is divine. People like you who defend sick abusive power hungry individuals are just as bad as them.
Second I had not drunk anything, was 100% sober (the drink was my friends).
If you think fighting for your freedom and your rights as an individual in a democracy against people who abuse their positions and try to take power over you is immature, then I fear you are the only immature spunktrumpet.
I voluntarily said I was going to leave, and peacefully - he did not know what I was going to do with the drink - therefore cannot presume I am committing an unlawful act (whatever that may be).
Do not make so many presumptions - this man clearly had control issues and took an aggressive stance when I called him out on his non existent power.
The use of force was in no way justified whatsoever - I had committed no crime, nor showed an intention too.
Also this event occured in the daytime....
You should be ashamed of yourself answering in a such childish manner - standing up for the freedom and non oppression of people is divine. People like you who defend sick abusive power hungry individuals are just as bad as them.
what a surprise - behave like an idiot get removed for being an idiot.
licenced premises staff can use reasonable force to remove idiots as being an idiot isn;t a protected characteristic and if i had a penny for every idiot who claimed they 'were just leaving' anyway i'd have a several very nice holidays a year from now until eternity and that;s just from a coupel of years of NTE work in a none badged Professional role.
So you were trying to be a petulant smart arse with bouncers and they kicked you out. No surprise. I've seen it so many times in venues I've worked.
As for going to the police, they've got better things to do.
As for going to the police, they've got better things to do.
Original post by zippyRN
what a surprise - behave like an idiot get removed for being an idiot.
licenced premises staff can use reasonable force to remove idiots as being an idiot isn;t a protected characteristic and if i had a penny for every idiot who claimed they 'were just leaving' anyway i'd have a several very nice holidays a year from now until eternity and that;s just from a coupel of years of NTE work in a none badged Professional role.
licenced premises staff can use reasonable force to remove idiots as being an idiot isn;t a protected characteristic and if i had a penny for every idiot who claimed they 'were just leaving' anyway i'd have a several very nice holidays a year from now until eternity and that;s just from a coupel of years of NTE work in a none badged Professional role.
And reasonable force is what can be changed to personal opinion and we cant tell as we haven't been told too much about what happened.
I dislike bouncers personally as had so many bad experiences and some thinking they were tough guys when in real life scenarios with sober people they are cowards or wimps (as knew a few off duty from family and friends) And so often the assumption that as you are a in a pub you must be drunk.
Had one last year physically push me as I was walking in telling me in a almost shouting voice "you cant come in" and when I enquired why to be told "I don't have to to tell you" so I went to get my phone as this was in public on a street and he tried steaing my phone from me saying its illegal to film him.
Original post by zippyRN
what a surprise - behave like an idiot get removed for being an idiot.
licenced premises staff can use reasonable force to remove idiots as being an idiot isn;t a protected characteristic and if i had a penny for every idiot who claimed they 'were just leaving' anyway i'd have a several very nice holidays a year from now until eternity and that;s just from a coupel of years of NTE work in a none badged Professional role.
licenced premises staff can use reasonable force to remove idiots as being an idiot isn;t a protected characteristic and if i had a penny for every idiot who claimed they 'were just leaving' anyway i'd have a several very nice holidays a year from now until eternity and that;s just from a coupel of years of NTE work in a none badged Professional role.
What a surprise.....
You are clearly only standing up for them because you are one of them and because I question there non existent power - I also question yours.... (not to say they all bad I have encountered many friendly bouncers)
You are clearly not one of them, and see it as means to use power over other people. Nor are you very clever sir, which is way you have evaded every single one of my points and answered in such self stupifying manner..
I am under no obligation to listen to you if I have done nothing wrong, and you are in no way entitled to use any force if I voluntarily and peacefully offer to leave. That is assault - something that you seem to think is ok to inflict on other people.
I would be truly ashamed of myself if I were you sir - next time you go out, imagine having a non lawful body attempting to take away your freedom and imagine how you'd feel. Freedom is the most sought after commodity in this world, and we are priviliged enough to have a lot of it.
People like you who want to take that away are a mockery and shame to everyone who died fighting for freedom, and everyone who is unlucky enough to still be oppressed.
Original post by drbluebox
And reasonable force is what can be changed to personal opinion and we cant tell as we haven't been told too much about what happened.
I dislike bouncers personally as had so many bad experiences and some thinking they were tough guys when in real life scenarios with sober people they are cowards or wimps (as knew a few off duty from family and friends) And so often the assumption that as you are a in a pub you must be drunk.
Had one last year physically push me as I was walking in telling me in a almost shouting voice "you cant come in" and when I enquired why to be told "I don't have to to tell you" so I went to get my phone as this was in public on a street and he tried steaing my phone from me saying its illegal to film him.
I dislike bouncers personally as had so many bad experiences and some thinking they were tough guys when in real life scenarios with sober people they are cowards or wimps (as knew a few off duty from family and friends) And so often the assumption that as you are a in a pub you must be drunk.
Had one last year physically push me as I was walking in telling me in a almost shouting voice "you cant come in" and when I enquired why to be told "I don't have to to tell you" so I went to get my phone as this was in public on a street and he tried steaing my phone from me saying its illegal to film him.
right of admission reserved , as long as the reason for refusal is not based solely in protected charateristc it is
1. legitimate
2. you have no right to be told
consequent disorderly conduct so common among the over entitled snow flake generation makes S143 so easy , assuming they don;t complete S4 , 4a or 5 Public order first
Original post by zippyRN
right of admission reserved , as long as the reason for refusal is not based solely in protected charateristc it is
1. legitimate
2. you have no right to be told
consequent disorderly conduct so common among the over entitled snow flake generation makes S143 so easy , assuming they don;t complete S4 , 4a or 5 Public order first
1. legitimate
2. you have no right to be told
consequent disorderly conduct so common among the over entitled snow flake generation makes S143 so easy , assuming they don;t complete S4 , 4a or 5 Public order first
Yes its a private club so they could refuse entry but the treatment I got was disgusting as he was being agressive.
Even more so when there was people drunk to the point of staggering about who were getting in no problem.
All it took would be "sorry I think you had too much" (as I am autistic so may of interpreted that as drunk) or "sorry we are full, only regulars can get in"
Speaking of I remember years ago going with a friend to club around corner from house and the main bouncer just picked on friend, first he couldn't get in as he was wearing casual shoes so went home and put on black shoes, then because he was wearing jeans so he put on trousers, then because he was wearing t shirt so put on a smart shirt, at which point different bouncers were on and let him in and as he went to pay for entry the original bouncer was like "I already told you, you can't get in" and when he asked why he was told "you had too much to drink"
My friend was sober, I should know he was my flatmate and had only got back from work shortly before we went out.
Original post by pikachu2dd
What a surprise.....
You are clearly only standing up for them because you are one of them and because I question there non existent power - I also question yours.... (not to say they all bad I have encountered many friendly bouncers)
You are clearly only standing up for them because you are one of them and because I question there non existent power - I also question yours.... (not to say they all bad I have encountered many friendly bouncers)
when attemptingto be an expert on the 'night time environment' even if the event did happen in the day time it does help if you understand the law as it relates to the admission, removal and refusal of service with regard to a venue , whether licenced or not.
You are clearly not one of them,
clearly not one of what ?
No i don't hold an SIA badge , you don;t need an SIA badge to be management of an event nor to be a provider of professional services outwith remit of SIA regulation .
and see it as means to use power over other people. Nor are you very clever sir, which is way you have evaded every single one of my points and answered in such self stupifying manner..
You have no right of admission to any premises , licenced or not - it is entirely at the discretion of the person in charge of the premises or his/her delegated representative ( i.e. door staff or in more exclusive or specialist settigns the ' door ***** ' ) and any action on the basis of refusal that is not phrased solely in terms of refusal being based in a protected characteristic (per the equality act) is doomed to failure,.
I am under no obligation to listen to you if I have done nothing wrong, and you are in no way entitled to use any force if I voluntarily and peacefully offer to leave. That is assault - something that you seem to think is ok to inflict on other people.
Anyone has at any time the inalienable right to revoke your right of access to private premises they are in control of and to use reasonable force in ejecting you / ensuring you do not attempt to re-enter
until you get this into your self -entitled and over inflated ego containing thick skull you will continue to have problems with venue management and their designated representatives
I would be truly ashamed of myself if I were you sir - next time you go out, imagine having a non lawful body attempting to take away your freedom and imagine how you'd feel. Freedom is the most sought after commodity in this world, and we are priviliged enough to have a lot of it.
People like you who want to take that away are a mockery and shame to everyone who died fighting for freedom, and everyone who is unlucky enough to still be oppressed.
now we are into freewibble
you do not have the right of access to private premises and where access is offered it can be revoked without notice and reasonable force used to remove you ... in terms of licenced Premises S143 licencing act 2003 does not require drunkeness merely disorderly behaviour for the offence to be complete and consequently reasonable force be used in line with S3 criminal law act 1967
Original post by drbluebox
Yes its a private club so they could refuse entry but the treatment I got was disgusting as he was being agressive.
Even more so when there was people drunk to the point of staggering about who were getting in no problem.
All it took would be "sorry I think you had too much" (as I am autistic so may of interpreted that as drunk) or "sorry we are full, only regulars can get in"
Speaking of I remember years ago going with a friend to club around corner from house and the main bouncer just picked on friend, first he couldn't get in as he was wearing casual shoes so went home and put on black shoes, then because he was wearing jeans so he put on trousers, then because he was wearing t shirt so put on a smart shirt, at which point different bouncers were on and let him in and as he went to pay for entry the original bouncer was like "I already told you, you can't get in" and when he asked why he was told "you had too much to drink"
My friend was sober, I should know he was my flatmate and had only got back from work shortly before we went out.
Even more so when there was people drunk to the point of staggering about who were getting in no problem.
All it took would be "sorry I think you had too much" (as I am autistic so may of interpreted that as drunk) or "sorry we are full, only regulars can get in"
Speaking of I remember years ago going with a friend to club around corner from house and the main bouncer just picked on friend, first he couldn't get in as he was wearing casual shoes so went home and put on black shoes, then because he was wearing jeans so he put on trousers, then because he was wearing t shirt so put on a smart shirt, at which point different bouncers were on and let him in and as he went to pay for entry the original bouncer was like "I already told you, you can't get in" and when he asked why he was told "you had too much to drink"
My friend was sober, I should know he was my flatmate and had only got back from work shortly before we went out.
what a surprise person with ASD fails to appreciate their antagnostic behaviour is a reason for refusal and focuses on a semantic -pragmatic issue in an attempt to 'win' an unwinnable battle instrwad of respecting the fact that admission is not a right
Oh grow up. You weren't hurt and sound like you're trying to be smarter than you actually are.
Don't be selfish. Do you not realise how much strain our public services are under? Not that you could press charges against this man anyway, you'd just be wasting police time.
Get over it, stop being butt hurt and move on.
Don't be selfish. Do you not realise how much strain our public services are under? Not that you could press charges against this man anyway, you'd just be wasting police time.
Get over it, stop being butt hurt and move on.
Original post by 999tigger
This will be great if you intsruct a lawyer over this, please keep us updated.
despite the 'cab rank rule' lawyers are not aobliged to take cases with no merit or where the person who wants to make the complaint is talking from an orifice other than their mouth ...
Original post by zippyRN
despite the 'cab rank rule' lawyers are not aobliged to take cases with no merit or where the person who wants to make the complaint is talking from an orifice other than their mouth ...
Did I say they were?
Original post by zippyRN
what a surprise person with ASD fails to appreciate their antagnostic behaviour is a reason for refusal and focuses on a semantic -pragmatic issue in an attempt to 'win' an unwinnable battle instrwad of respecting the fact that admission is not a right
What a surprise, arrogant person being arrogant.
What was antagonistic that I did? I walked up to door and was shouted at straightaway to which I politely asked why and was screamed at "I don't have to tell you why"
I was sober, smiling and friendly to that point and used to bullies so I thought I would get phone out so I would have proof of who this person was for him to try and grab me and get the phone out of my hand.
How was I there being antagonistic?
I was also turned away for another club around corner which I was annoyed at but when I asked why I was told a local gig was cancelled and so they only let in regulars, so at least they told me (though was angry they waited till I was front of queue where I was for over 20 minutes before telling me and staff were walking around handing out flyers)
Antagonistic would of been screaming and shouting in their face and them talking it, as it stands this bouncer (at the first place) was agressive at me and screaming in my face and tried grabbing me.
So in other words you have made a prejudice comment (thus have prejudice) against ASD people
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