This discussion is now closed.
Check out other Related discussions
- TSR I-SOC (Islamic Society) Mk. XVII
- Is it Haram to do this?
- I am a shia muslim . AMA
- Radiant Islamic reminders 💚
- Timid Young People
- fisher v bell
- My boyfriend left me because he said my breasts and butt were too small
- Why does every guy choose my friend over me?
- What do guys think of good girls but are naughty (kinky) in the bedroom?
- Do the most attractive girls feel overwhelmed?
- Opportunity
- Looks are subjective?
- International Women's Day 2024 - Tell us about someone who inspires you
- are girls only interested in popular guys
- Separate room for exams
- who would you be in a zombie apocalypse?
- English Literature AQA COMEDY
- do girls really not like nice guys?
- Would you date a girl who wears trainers without socks?
- Is student loan haram?
Who are the Salafis?
According to the "Salafi" ideology, a "Salafi" is someone who has special knowledge or ability to follow the beliefs of the Salaf above the mass Majority of common Muslims, they also include certain hand-picked scholars of later times.
Of course, this illusory definition is questioned by Sunni Muslims. Even the name of "Salafi" as understood by the "Salafi" movement, is rejected on the grounds that is is an innovated appellation which Ahl al-Sunnah have not used and which has appeared only a few decades ago
Where Ahl al-Sunnah further differ with "Salafis" is in the promotion of a handful of controversial scholars as supposedly representing all of Islamic scholarship after the time of the true Salaf. They praise and advertise these controversial scholars over and over the established, non-controversial Ahl al-Sunnah scholars of the intervening centuries.
These few scholars are:
- Ibn Taymiyya al-Harrani & his student Ibn al-Qayyim
- Ibn 'Abd al-Wahhab & his Najdi epigones
- Bin Baz, Uthaymin, Albani & their propagandists
The Sunnis disagree with the above because neither do these belong to the time of the Salaf, nor are they considered representatives of the beliefs and practices of the Salaf, nor are they considered foremost authorities by Ahl al-Sunnah. In fact the condemnation of the first three by many scholars is well-known, as are the innovations and blunders of the latter.
The most diminutive proof that "Salafis" are the most distant of people from the Pious Salaf lies in the following fiver fundamental aspects of the Salafi ideology:
- Anthropomorphism of God's attributes: affirming a place, direction and corporeal limbs to God who is far exalted above all those;
- Disrespect of the Prophet Muhammad;
- An amateurish, egalitarian approach to the Quran & Hadith (no need for scholars or mastery of Arabic or Ijaza - traditional accreditation, or the Islamic sciences);
- Hatred for the Four Sunni Schools of Law (The 4 Madhabs), the two schools of doctrine (Asharis and Maturidis), and all the schools of self-purification (Tasawwuf - Sufism);
- The practice of Takfir: Declaring other Muslims unbelievers
Of course, this illusory definition is questioned by Sunni Muslims. Even the name of "Salafi" as understood by the "Salafi" movement, is rejected on the grounds that is is an innovated appellation which Ahl al-Sunnah have not used and which has appeared only a few decades ago
Where Ahl al-Sunnah further differ with "Salafis" is in the promotion of a handful of controversial scholars as supposedly representing all of Islamic scholarship after the time of the true Salaf. They praise and advertise these controversial scholars over and over the established, non-controversial Ahl al-Sunnah scholars of the intervening centuries.
These few scholars are:
- Ibn Taymiyya al-Harrani & his student Ibn al-Qayyim
- Ibn 'Abd al-Wahhab & his Najdi epigones
- Bin Baz, Uthaymin, Albani & their propagandists
The Sunnis disagree with the above because neither do these belong to the time of the Salaf, nor are they considered representatives of the beliefs and practices of the Salaf, nor are they considered foremost authorities by Ahl al-Sunnah. In fact the condemnation of the first three by many scholars is well-known, as are the innovations and blunders of the latter.
The most diminutive proof that "Salafis" are the most distant of people from the Pious Salaf lies in the following fiver fundamental aspects of the Salafi ideology:
- Anthropomorphism of God's attributes: affirming a place, direction and corporeal limbs to God who is far exalted above all those;
- Disrespect of the Prophet Muhammad;
- An amateurish, egalitarian approach to the Quran & Hadith (no need for scholars or mastery of Arabic or Ijaza - traditional accreditation, or the Islamic sciences);
- Hatred for the Four Sunni Schools of Law (The 4 Madhabs), the two schools of doctrine (Asharis and Maturidis), and all the schools of self-purification (Tasawwuf - Sufism);
- The practice of Takfir: Declaring other Muslims unbelievers
(edited 7 years ago)
Scroll to see replies
Yasir Qadhi, ahlus-sunnah sheikh, who used to , by his own admission, be quite radical and extreme and part of the salafi- movement, on why he left the salafi-sect/movement [this is on the 'Hanafi fiqh' channel]
[video="youtube;hZv5eKzoA8Y"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZv5eKzoA8Y[/video]
Since leaving the salafi-sect, to join the greater body of the ahlus-sunnah wal jamaah group, he has received a lot of hatred, 'refutations', and attacks. Usually,these are carried out by people notorious for their intolerance.
Such as Dawah Man:
Refuting Yasir Qadhi 'five reasons why he is wrong': [Dawah Man]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rTQln0GWQ0
[video="youtube;hZv5eKzoA8Y"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZv5eKzoA8Y[/video]
Since leaving the salafi-sect, to join the greater body of the ahlus-sunnah wal jamaah group, he has received a lot of hatred, 'refutations', and attacks. Usually,these are carried out by people notorious for their intolerance.
Such as Dawah Man:
Refuting Yasir Qadhi 'five reasons why he is wrong': [Dawah Man]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rTQln0GWQ0
Original post by Tawheed
Yasir
Such as Dawah Man:
Refuting Yasir Qadhi 'five reasons why he is wrong': [Dawah Man]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rTQln0GWQ0
Such as Dawah Man:
Refuting Yasir Qadhi 'five reasons why he is wrong': [Dawah Man]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rTQln0GWQ0
Imran Ibn Mansur (Dawah Man) is an ignoramus, he seems to think he can speak about Scholars and the Islamic sciences when he is in no position to do so
It's saddening to see that young people follow this fool, YouTube celebrities and self proclaimed scholars instead of following Traditional Scholars
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by MuhammadDarcy
Imran Ibn Mansur (Dawah Man) is an ignoramus, he seems to think he can speak about Scholars and the Islamic sciences when he is in no position to do so
It's saddening to see that young people follow this fool instead of following Traditional Scholars
It's saddening to see that young people follow this fool instead of following Traditional Scholars
Agreed.
Just to warn you, there are a number of users very sympathetic to the salafi movement on here, and you might get some fierce criticism.
Original post by Tawheed
Sheikh Hamzah Yusuf on 'Wahhabism':
[video="youtube;sMVHq9lgSmQ"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMVHq9lgSmQ[/video]
[video="youtube;sMVHq9lgSmQ"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMVHq9lgSmQ[/video]
I met Shaykh Hamza Yusuf a few years ago in Madinah
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by MuhammadDarcy
According to the "Salafi" ideology, a "Salafi" is someone who has special knowledge or ability to follow the beliefs of the Salaf above the mass Majority of common Muslims, they also include certain hand-picked scholars of later times.
Of course, this illusory definition is questioned by Sunni Muslims. Even the name of "Salafi" as understood by the "Salafi" movement, is rejected on the grounds that is is an innovated appellation which Ahl al-Sunnah have not used and which has appeared only a few decades ago
Where Ahl al-Sunnah further differ with "Salafis" is in the promotion of a handful of controversial scholars as supposedly representing all of Islamic scholarship after the time of the true Salaf. They praise and advertise these controversial scholars over and over the established, non-controversial Ahl al-Sunnah scholars of the intervening centuries.
These few scholars are:
- Ibn Taymiyya al-Harrani & his student Ibn al-Qayyim
- Ibn 'Abd al-Wahhab & his Najdi epigones
- Bin Baz, Uthaymin, Albani & their propagandists
The Sunnis disagree with the above because neither do these belong to the time of the Salaf, nor are they considered representatives of the beliefs and practices of the Salaf, nor are they considered foremost authorities by Ahl al-Sunnah. In fact the condemnation of the first three by many scholars is well-known, as are the innovations and blunders of the latter.
The most diminutive proof that "Salafis" are the most distant of people from the Pious Salaf lies in the following fiver fundamental aspects of the Salafi ideology:
- Anthropomorphism of God's attributes: affirming a place, direction and corporeal limbs to God who is far exalted above all those;
- Disrespect of the Prophet Muhammad;
- An amateurish, egalitarian approach to the Quran & Hadith (no need for scholars or mastery of Arabic or Ijaza - traditional accreditation, or the Islamic sciences);
- Hatred for the Four Sunni Schools of Law (The 4 Madhabs), the two schools of doctrine (Asharis and Maturidis), and all the schools of self-purification (Tasawwuf - Sufism);
- The practice of Takfir: Declaring other Muslims unbelievers
Posted from TSR Mobile
Of course, this illusory definition is questioned by Sunni Muslims. Even the name of "Salafi" as understood by the "Salafi" movement, is rejected on the grounds that is is an innovated appellation which Ahl al-Sunnah have not used and which has appeared only a few decades ago
Where Ahl al-Sunnah further differ with "Salafis" is in the promotion of a handful of controversial scholars as supposedly representing all of Islamic scholarship after the time of the true Salaf. They praise and advertise these controversial scholars over and over the established, non-controversial Ahl al-Sunnah scholars of the intervening centuries.
These few scholars are:
- Ibn Taymiyya al-Harrani & his student Ibn al-Qayyim
- Ibn 'Abd al-Wahhab & his Najdi epigones
- Bin Baz, Uthaymin, Albani & their propagandists
The Sunnis disagree with the above because neither do these belong to the time of the Salaf, nor are they considered representatives of the beliefs and practices of the Salaf, nor are they considered foremost authorities by Ahl al-Sunnah. In fact the condemnation of the first three by many scholars is well-known, as are the innovations and blunders of the latter.
The most diminutive proof that "Salafis" are the most distant of people from the Pious Salaf lies in the following fiver fundamental aspects of the Salafi ideology:
- Anthropomorphism of God's attributes: affirming a place, direction and corporeal limbs to God who is far exalted above all those;
- Disrespect of the Prophet Muhammad;
- An amateurish, egalitarian approach to the Quran & Hadith (no need for scholars or mastery of Arabic or Ijaza - traditional accreditation, or the Islamic sciences);
- Hatred for the Four Sunni Schools of Law (The 4 Madhabs), the two schools of doctrine (Asharis and Maturidis), and all the schools of self-purification (Tasawwuf - Sufism);
- The practice of Takfir: Declaring other Muslims unbelievers
Posted from TSR Mobile
Although the term 'Salafi' is modern, the methodology of following the Salaf is one which has been around since the first centuries of Islam. Your analysis is incorrect - the aim of Salafism is to understand Islam as it's first proponents and followers understood it (who collectively make the Salaf). This should be an aim we all have; this differs from some other Sunnis (e g. Sufis) in that their Aqeedah and practices are wrought with innovation, or they are underpinned by weak hadith, thus they fail to understand Islam as the Prophet (SAW) believed.
A further issue with your understanding is a common propaganda line used by Sufis that 'Salafis are not Ahlus Sunnah'; Sunnis are those who follow the Sunnah of the Prophet, as understood by the Sahabah, therefore by definition, Salafis are Sunni. Instead a common intellectually disingenuous trick Sufis try to do is claim 'we are Ahlus Sunnah Wa Jammah' - under what basis? The reality is that from Morocco to Iraq, the Sunnis do not understand Sunnism in the same way as these Sufis who claim to be majority, and instead their brand of Islam is mainly followed in Pakistan and India, and by the Desi diaspora around the world.
Hatred of the 4 Madhabs (or even the first 3) is another lie. Salafi scholars praise the founders of the 4 schools of fiqh and the work they have done for Islam; the scholars tend to be critical of people who blindly follow the madhabs in cases where a stronger opinion exists on a matter, but they continue to refuse on the basis of 'but Abu Hanifa said... but Imam Malik said... but... but...'.
Another thing that these Sufi types fail to understand is that the founders of the 4 madhabs were all Salafi in methodology, and they had similar theological (athaari) beliefs; the only difference between them is that Ahmed Bin Hanbal incorporated theology into his madhab, whereas the other madhabs related to just fiqh. You most likely follow the Hanafi madhab; have you ever read what Abu Hanifa has written? You'd be surprised and probably spontaneously combust out of anger at him being like Salafis
It is worth noting that the likes of the 4 founders of the schools of fiqh came before the likes of Ibn Taymiyyah, so this is further proof that Salafis do not simply pick obscure and controversial figures as our flagship scholars.Your 5 principles are flawed observations:
- Salafis, the Prophet (SAW), the founders of the 4 Madabs, the Sahabah, the Tabi'een, the Tabi-tabi'een, etc only affirm what Allah afirms of Himself in Quran and hadith, and then leave it as that - we do not try to imagine Allah because He is beyond human comprehension, and He is indeed not like his creation. If Allah says He is above the heavens and the earth or has a face, are you going to deny that? Do you have any basis from the Quran or Sunnah or any commentary by the Sahabah to indicate that they understood that metaphorically? If one denies this, then they have committed Kufr by rejecting the word of Allah.
- Can you establish proof that Salafis disrespect Muhammad (SAW)? I have found that those from deviant sects tend to disrespect him the most by attributing fabricated hadith to him or by practicing Islam in a way other than he taught - and indeed Sufis, despite their claim for their love of the Prophet, fall under this category of people.
- What is the basis for your claim that one does not have to have these things to be a scholar according to Salafis?
- Prove that they hate the 4 madhabs. Prove that Sufi schools should be followed and that their methodology is the one taught by the Prophet (SAW), the Sahabah, the Tabi'een and the Tab-tabi'een.
- If one perpetually engages in Kufr or Shirk, then that takes them outside of Islam, so Takfir is necessary in order to either get them to rectify their ways, or to discourage others from following their deviance. Can you establish why this is wrong?
Original post by MuhammadDarcy
Imran Ibn Mansur (Dawah Man) is an ignoramus, he seems to think he can speak about Scholars and the Islamic sciences when he is in no position to do so
It's saddening to see that young people follow this fool, YouTube celebrities and self proclaimed scholars instead of following Traditional Scholars
Posted from TSR Mobile
It's saddening to see that young people follow this fool, YouTube celebrities and self proclaimed scholars instead of following Traditional Scholars
Posted from TSR Mobile
Agreed - not a fan of his, and I often criticise him.
Original post by Tawheed
An example of salafi hidden-anthropomorphism:
"Allah has a finger/ fingers"
[video="youtube;Fr5cZZ-2DAE"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fr5cZZ-2DAE[/video]
"Allah has a finger/ fingers"
[video="youtube;Fr5cZZ-2DAE"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fr5cZZ-2DAE[/video]
What I have said on the matter in the past to you and await a response to:
"If one were to say "Allah is The Merciful - He bestows His mercy", you wouldn't say you are worshipping His mercy, rather you are worshipping The Merciful, and similarly one wouldn't say you are worshipping Allah's hands, rather you are worshipping Allah. Even with your beliefs that Allah's hands or face are metaphorically indicative of attributes, you would still face a parallel situation to us, and I will use an example to explain: Let's take the sentence "Allah created mankind by His hands", and let's assume that means "Allah created mankind using His power". From your perspective, you would be worshipping The Powerful (Allah), not the power by which He created mankind, and it is similar we would be worshipping Allah, not His hands. Allah is The Powerful, and the power is from Allah but the power is not Allah, similarly the hands are from Allah but they are not Allah. It is thus that Allah can have the attributes of hands, foot, face etc in a way that befits His majesty without someone having the ability to say "I am worshipping Allah's hands". Although I can understand where you are coming from about dividing into parts, I would again say that it is comparative to how Allah's knowledge and power and seeing and hearing and mercy are all different things but still are with Allah in His oneness. The issue of divisibility is that one is thinking of Allah in an overly literal physical way like His creation, but the position has always been that Allah is unlike His creation. This is sufficient, I believe.
With this understanding of not being like His creation but still having these attributes, we can then reject any attempt to logically comprehend Allah's feet being physically below the water and above the kursi as this is attempting to comprehend everything in a more physical way than intended perhaps.
The balance between Allah's description being literal and metaphorical is on a knife's edge, but this does not make it incorrect, rather it is a matter left by Allah and His messenger and therefore not meant to be something that we try to understand the finer details of, since it is an obscure matter only known to Him."
Could you also respond to the other point I once made about Allah saying "both My hands" as a plural rather than in singular which would invalidate a completely metaphorical interpretation since Allah would not be using His powers (double the same attribute) to create Adam (AS), rather just his power?"
(edited 7 years ago)
a load of terrorist takfiris.
Original post by Tawheed
Sheikh Hamzah Yusuf on 'Wahhabism':
[video="youtube;sMVHq9lgSmQ"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMVHq9lgSmQ[/video]
[video="youtube;sMVHq9lgSmQ"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMVHq9lgSmQ[/video]
Is it really wise for you to call people "wahaabis" or "najdis" (I've seen you use the latter one in the past)? Especially when they're nearly always used in derogatory ways? You yourself complain when people use terms for shia which you deem to be derogatory so surely this is hypocrisy.
This seems to be the very sectarianism you complain about unfortunately.
Btw I'm not complaining about actual name usage, that doesn't bother me one bit. Merely pointing out the hypocrisy.
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by Zamestaneh
If one perpetually engages in Kufr or Shirk, then that takes them outside of Islam, so Takfir is necessary in order to either get them to rectify their ways, or to discourage others from following their deviance. Can you establish why this is wrong?
If one perpetually engages in Kufr or Shirk, then that takes them outside of Islam, so Takfir is necessary in order to either get them to rectify their ways, or to discourage others from following their deviance. Can you establish why this is wrong?
Salafis Calling Muslims "Pagans"
It is not permitted to charge Muslims - believers in monotheism who pray with you, fast, pay Zakat, and perform pilgrimage shouting over and over, "Ever at your call, O Allah! ever at your call, there is no partner with you, ever at your call! Truly all glory and praise, all Favour and grace belongs to you, and all sovereignty and dominion! No-one can be a partner to you!" - it is not permitted by the Law, to charge them with idolatry (al-Shirk) the way Salafi Books and Publications are filled with such charges
Salafis Calling Muslims "Apostates"
The Salafis have declared the Sufis disbelievers then the Asharis. They have denied and denounced imitation of and adhering to the Four Imams, Abu Hanifa, Malik, al-Shafi’ and Ahmad Ibn Hanbal. Whereas their imitators formed and continue to form the vastest mass (al-Sawad al-A’zam) of the Muslims.
Salafis calling Muslims "Deviants"
After Salafis finished doing the above they let loose certain hirelings that they had nurtured, so that they began to throw accusations of misguidance and deviance at the Islamic Groups and organisations that work in the field of calling to Islam (Dawa) and are actively raising up the word of Allah and commanding the good and forbidding the evil. I mean the Jamat al-Tabligh, the Deobandi group that represents some of the brightest scholars of India, Pakistan & Bangladesh; and the Baraylawi group that represents the vastest mass of the common Muslims in those countries. The Salafis also published a book that contains the declaration that the people of Abu Dhabi and Dubai are unbelievers together with the Ibadis
Salafis calling Muslims "Innovators"
Salafis keep repeating the phrase of the Noble Hadith, "Every innovation is Misguidance" without discernment, only to criticise and condemn others, yet approving certain actions that contradict the Prophetic Sunnah without condemning them nor counting them as innovations.
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by Zamestaneh
Can you establish proof that Salafis disrespect Muhammad
Can you establish proof that Salafis disrespect Muhammad
It is stated in the books of the Shafi’ Mufti of Makkah Sayyid Shaykh Ahmad Zayni Dahlan that Muhammad Ibn Abd al-Wahhab insulted the Prophet on many occasions, on one occasion he referred to the Prophet as a lowly messenger boy and on another occasion one of his followers remarked in his presence that his walking stick is better than the Prophet because his stick can be used to kill snakes while Muhammad is no longer beneficial, he was merely a messenger boy who is no more, he was also noted to have said that the recitation of Salawat on the Prophet from the Minarets of Mosques is a greater sin than a prostitute playing musical instruments in her brothel
Salafis allowed a man by the name of Muqbil Ibn Hadi al-Wadi'i - known through his books & tapes for his propensity to insult & disparage those of the Scholars who disagree with him, those who call unto Allah, and the pious of this community of Islam - to produce some research at the end of his studies at the University of Madinah titled "about the Dome built over the grave of the messenger" sponsored by al-Ansari. in this paper he demands openly and without shame that the Noble Grave be brought out of the Mosque, deems the presence of the Grave and and Noble Dome there a Major innovation, and that they be destroyed! On top of that he was granted high marks and a passing grade!
Do Salafis honour those who challenge the messenger of Islam, the beloved of Allah, the mercy to the universe and his intimate friend?
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by Zamestaneh
- If one perpetually engages in Kufr or Shirk, then that takes them outside of Islam, so Takfir is necessary in order to either get them to rectify their ways, or to discourage others from following their deviance. Can you establish why this is wrong?
- If one perpetually engages in Kufr or Shirk, then that takes them outside of Islam, so Takfir is necessary in order to either get them to rectify their ways, or to discourage others from following their deviance. Can you establish why this is wrong?
But only scholars can perform takfir and only after exhausting all other avenues and possibilities.
Laymen cannot do takfir or tafsiiq, but it is rife these days.
Original post by Al-farhan
But only scholars can perform takfir and only after exhausting all other avenues and possibilities.
Laymen cannot do takfir or tafsiiq, but it is rife these days.
Laymen cannot do takfir or tafsiiq, but it is rife these days.
I agree, but it just appeared that the brother was rejecting all Takfir (which includes by scholars), which is what I was objecting to
Original post by the bear
what is the point of Salafism... all the adherents just do nasty things ?
Regardless of the modern stigma attached to the word and it being hijacked by some zealous but ill informed youth all muslims are supposed to follow the salaf and try to emulate the salaf.
We as muslims should follow the quran and sunnah according to the understanding of the salaf.
Related discussions
- TSR I-SOC (Islamic Society) Mk. XVII
- Is it Haram to do this?
- I am a shia muslim . AMA
- Radiant Islamic reminders 💚
- Timid Young People
- fisher v bell
- My boyfriend left me because he said my breasts and butt were too small
- Why does every guy choose my friend over me?
- What do guys think of good girls but are naughty (kinky) in the bedroom?
- Do the most attractive girls feel overwhelmed?
- Opportunity
- Looks are subjective?
- International Women's Day 2024 - Tell us about someone who inspires you
- are girls only interested in popular guys
- Separate room for exams
- who would you be in a zombie apocalypse?
- English Literature AQA COMEDY
- do girls really not like nice guys?
- Would you date a girl who wears trainers without socks?
- Is student loan haram?
Latest
Trending
Last reply 4 days ago
My friend might be getting extra time and i hate it.Last reply 4 days ago
Just found out about UCL stat test but can't afford to sit itLast reply 2 weeks ago
Dad keeps criticising my university degree choiceLast reply 2 weeks ago
Is this pathetic or genuinely something to be upset aboutTrending
Last reply 4 days ago
My friend might be getting extra time and i hate it.Last reply 4 days ago
Just found out about UCL stat test but can't afford to sit itLast reply 2 weeks ago
Dad keeps criticising my university degree choiceLast reply 2 weeks ago
Is this pathetic or genuinely something to be upset about
