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Government loses article 50 court fight

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Original post by Mimir
Jewish, actually


German-Jewish, actually.
Original post by Fullofsurprises
:clap2:

Now we can have a proper process and not the sham capitulation to UKIP that Theresa May's shockingly indifferent government are currently engaged in.

This must mean the end of Brexit as the extremists in the Tory Party envisage it and the beginning of a proper, sensible debate on the subject. It also means we can move from the agenda being controlled by the offshore oligarchs who run the tabloids to it having a chance of being controlled by what is genuinely in the interests of this country and not a few very rich tax dodgers with fanatic political agendas.


Yes grrrr evil fatcat oligarchs grrrrrrrr extremism grrr evil rich.



You say this despite over 50% of the population voting to leave, and I can assure you that 50% of the population are not wealthy.

there were also many poor people voting leave and many rich people voting remain.

You also ask for sensible debate when all labour have done is scream and shout and throw and tantrum about Brexit instead of actually getting on with it and going forward.

And just because a opinion is different to yours does not make it extreme
Original post by AperfectBalance
Yes grrrr evil fatcat oligarchs grrrrrrrr extremism grrr evil rich.



You say this despite over 50% of the population voting to leave, and I can assure you that 50% of the population are not wealthy.

there were also many poor people voting leave and many rich people voting remain.

You also ask for sensible debate when all labour have done is scream and shout and throw and tantrum about Brexit instead of actually getting on with it and going forward.

And just because a opinion is different to yours does not make it extreme

Actually Labour are committed to
Brexit but they want parliamentary scrutiny of the exit terms.
Original post by sr90
I find it hilarious that all the people shouting about 'taking our country back' are now complaining that the same Parliament they want to hand power to gets to have a say on the most important issue for the country in generations.


Well said. :five:

Actually, they don't 'want our country back' - at least in the sense of the national institutions like Parliament - what they actually want is that their own individual demands be met and everything else ignored.

In fact, instead of Rule by Parliament, they want Rule by Farage.
the man in the acrylic cardie will not like this

:eek:
As I posted in the other thread, I'm genuinely curious that, if the shoe had been on the other foot & that the Remain had won the referendum but Parliament voted from Brexit then what the reaction by many on this forum would be?
Reply 26
Original post by AperfectBalance
Yes grrrr evil fatcat oligarchs grrrrrrrr extremism grrr evil rich.



You say this despite over 50% of the population voting to leave, and I can assure you that 50% of the population are not wealthy.

there were also many poor people voting leave and many rich people voting remain.

You also ask for sensible debate when all labour have done is scream and shout and throw and tantrum about Brexit instead of actually getting on with it and going forward.

And just because a opinion is different to yours does not make it extreme


The poor were duped and misinformed into blaming immigrants for government created problems. Their cry of desperation will go deliberately misunderstood by this conservative government as they attempt to make brexit about immigration to the public but actually change policy to aid companies' profits such as Nissan etc. But to be honest the majority of parliament consists of a majority of neoliberals so not much benefit to most people will come out of brexit comparing it to a conservative led brexit.
MP's should get a vote on this, even if it means May has to expose her negotiation plans (which I would guess involve trying to keep the financial district safe no matter what the consequences). That being said, anything other than voting to support activating article 50 would be political suicide for any Labour or Con MP, especially those in pro-brexit seats.
Original post by leinad2012
MP's should get a vote on this, even if it means May has to expose her negotiation plans (which I would guess involve trying to keep the financial district safe no matter what the consequences). That being said, anything other than voting to support activating article 50 would be political suicide for any Labour or Con MP, especially those in pro-brexit seats.


There's a huge amount of hot air in the idea that voters are so obsessed with the EU that they will topple MPs who vote for Remain, or to stay in the Single Market. When voters were offered a direct opportunity to vote on it, by a small margin against a background of towering quantities of public lies, they voted for it. The rest of the time, they place it well down the issues list. Hence why UKIP have never done well at getting parliamentary seats - if the voters really cared that much, there would be 50 or 60 kippers at least in the Commons - as it is, there's one and he's really still a Tory.
Reply 29


Unbelievable. I thought there had been a referendum. The High Court and MPs have no business in this affair.
Reply 30
Original post by Fullofsurprises
There's a huge amount of hot air in the idea that voters are so obsessed with the EU that they will topple MPs who vote for Remain, or to stay in the Single Market. When voters were offered a direct opportunity to vote on it, by a small margin against a background of towering quantities of public lies, they voted for it. The rest of the time, they place it well down the issues list. Hence why UKIP have never done well at getting parliamentary seats - if the voters really cared that much, there would be 50 or 60 kippers at least in the Commons - as it is, there's one and he's really still a Tory.


Except for the fact that UKIP's vote share was 3rd and over 1 in 8 voters voted for them, what you are saying isn't true and instead shows the problems with the current voting system.

If not for the tories offering a referendum on the issue the vote share would have been higher.
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by Tower899
Unbelievable. I thought there had been a referendum. The High Court and MPs have no business in this affair.


The government of this country consists of Parliament, the Courts, the Monarchy, the civil service, ministers and other institutions like local authorities and the armed and police forces. However, the greatest of all of these has always been Parliament since about 1649 when they decapitated the king to make it so.

We don't and never have had a system where everything is decided with referendums. David Cameron opted for it this time because he was too weak and timid to face down a bunch of sad idiots planted in his backbenches by an offshore tycoon with a dodgy past and links to organised crime.

The referendum itself was not legally binding and Parliament remains sovereign.

If you don't think it is, please find a country more to your liking, perhaps Putin's Russia or China under the unelected one party rule of the Communist Party?
Original post by Foo.mp3
So the city think they can delay the inevitable, and somehow use Democratically elected representatives to block a direct Democratic mandate from the people? Mr. and Ms. hedge fund (Gina Miller and her hubbie) can stick it

Ivory tower douchebags will not block Brexit, and MPs will know, without any doubt in their minds, that should they attempt to then they they will be committing treason (betraying the people/nation, surrendering sovereignty) in the eyes of millions

In the above context, and given that so many prominant MPs have said 'we must respect the wishes of the people', anyone taking the opportunity to obstruct withdrawal may expect to be held fully accountable for such folly, in the fullness of time :yy:


Sounds to me like you would prefer a dictatorship.
Original post by CherishFreedom
One could also say conversely that it's funny the people who wants to reduce the power and influence of our parliament is seeking for our parliament to have the power to approve or disapprove Article 50.


The majority of people who voted to remain in the EU did not vote on the basis that they wanted to "reduce the power and influence of our parliament". I don't know anybody who voted on that basis. However, many Brexiters voted on the basis that they specifically wanted to return power to our Parliament.
Original post by Fullofsurprises
There's a huge amount of hot air in the idea that voters are so obsessed with the EU that they will topple MPs who vote for Remain, or to stay in the Single Market. When voters were offered a direct opportunity to vote on it, by a small margin against a background of towering quantities of public lies, they voted for it. The rest of the time, they place it well down the issues list. Hence why UKIP have never done well at getting parliamentary seats - if the voters really cared that much, there would be 50 or 60 kippers at least in the Commons - as it is, there's one and he's really still a Tory.


I'm sorry but we both know that that is absolutely false. I normally find your posts particularly well informed, but that one is absolutely dreadful and completely factually incorrect (and I think you know it is too which is pretty disappointing). I am no supporter of UKIP and never ever will be (In fact, I'm thrilled that our political system means that they only have 1 seat) but we both know that if our system was based on proportional representation and not FPTP they would have at least 30 seats. They won over 20% of the vote in the GE, and if those in parliament keep pretending they aren't a threat to political stability at least at the next GE then they are unfortunately deluding themselves.

I'll be frank, it's people like you on the pro remain side which were the problem with the campaign; you bury your head in the sand rather than accepting the fact that over half of the country isn't happy with how the EU is right now. If you genuinely think that a Labour MP in a northern seat who voted over 60% to leave is going to risk losing their seat to UKIP (which is VERY likely to happen) by voting against activating article 50, having already lost a significant proportion of their winning margin at the last GE, then you are deluding yourself. The EU and immigration is the biggest political issue for a large proportion of the country, it's why Dave put a referendum on his promise list and why the people responding by voting in a Tory government last year.
Reply 35
Original post by 999tigger
You are waiting to see what happens on appeal to the Supreme court. They will fast track it.
You are wiating to see the government response on whether they will view a motion as sufficient or whether it will take legislation.
Wait and see. Too many unknowns at the moment.
It is a delay at worst, but an incovenient one that could be months or a few years .
We might not be out by 2020 at this rate.


The referendum is just getting the public's opinion on it. It doesn't guarantee anything. MPs will probably get lobbied by companies to vote against leaving.
(edited 7 years ago)
People need to to calm down. This isn't about blocking Brexit - there is no realistic prospect of Parliament voting to do that as they are still accountable to the voters come the next election. It's about ensuring that MPs are able to fully and ultimately decide whether or not to follow the Government's plans on what happens next, what sort of deal we want to aim for and whether we accept what's eventually put on the table. The referendum was a simple in or out question - but there are many, many different roads we can follow whilst leavint the EU, none of which have any more or less of a democratic mandate than the others. It is only right that Parliament is able to choose between them.
Breaking News: UK Government told it has to follow the law! Brexiters upset.
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by AperfectBalance
If it does not happen there will be riots


Cos the over 50's are known for rioting..
Parliament voted 544 to 53 to hold the referendum in the first place.

I don't have a problem with Parliament voting on invoking article 50 but if they ignore the will of the British people then there will probably be violence.
(edited 7 years ago)

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