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Original post by Mekkiii
Yes, if you buy into the left wing dogma if you dont agree with their pet groups belief or opinions , then you're islamophobic.
No, if you are a normal human being capable of rational thinking.
No, if you are a normal human being capable of rational thinking.
But non-Halal slaughter ain't much better. So how can one be against one but not the other?
It is obviously islamphobic.
Original post by Reality Check
Your post deeply disgusts me, troll-esque as it is.
Halal slaughter fits well with the barbaric, mediæval dogma which is the cult of Islam. Your silly quasi-religion isn't worth killing a fly for, never mind a beast for meat.
Halal slaughter fits well with the barbaric, mediæval dogma which is the cult of Islam. Your silly quasi-religion isn't worth killing a fly for, never mind a beast for meat.
But you are for non-Halal slaughter. So why does one form of slaughter insult you but you happy with another form of slaughter? Is it because you're islamphobic?
Original post by tgrue
But non-Halal slaughter ain't much better. So how can one be against one but not the other?
It is obviously islamphobic.
It is obviously islamphobic.
You have a phobia of western civilisation if you dont eat non-halal meat, halal isnt much better so how can you eat one but not the other?
Original post by Reality Check
I don't understand why you're calling me a troll, I am asking you a fair question.
Why are you against halal slaughter but you're not against other forms of slaughter?
Can you at least just answer that?
Original post by tgrue
But non-Halal slaughter ain't much better. So how can one be against one but not the other?
It is obviously islamphobic.
It is obviously islamphobic.
Just because you criticise it , doesnt make you an islamophobe.
You are not shaking or trembling at the sight or thought of halal slaughter are you?
Also you obviously care about the suffering of animals, why is this an irrational belief?
Lol, I am a muslim and that stance ain't islamophobic. You are islamophobic if you hate islam for no reason or are just scared of muslims and islam in general, again for no reason. (Anyone who is scared of islam is basically islamophobic) I can understand the point of view of the people who are against halal- and kosher slaughter.
Vegetarian here and completely against halal and kosher slaughter. I laugh when people say the animal can't feel anything during halal slaughter because it can to an extent. Imo if you want to kill an animal just behead it or something.
Most are against it as a lot of studies time and time again have said that it's generally a lot worse for the animal than the usual slaughter in the UK which involves pre-stunning the animal. I believe @QE2 knows a lot about it. Why we can't just behead and get things done without much bs is beyond me.
I wouldn't call somebody Islamophobic unless they had irrational criticisms, saying blatant untruths like "all muslims are terrorist *****" etc. As such, being against halal slaughter for rational reasons largely relating to animal welfare doesn't really qualify.
I wouldn't call somebody Islamophobic unless they had irrational criticisms, saying blatant untruths like "all muslims are terrorist *****" etc. As such, being against halal slaughter for rational reasons largely relating to animal welfare doesn't really qualify.
I wouldn't necessarily say they're Islamophobic. But of course there is a chance they could be, and only really opposing Halal slaughter because of its association with Islam.
There are many examples of ways in which we make animals suffer far more than farm animals being slaughtered for food. For example when we catch fish, they're suffocated to death or subjected to repeated blunt forces to stop them from moving around too much while fully conscious. They're often brought up from deep within the ocean that the quick pressure changes result in their eyes or guts popping out from their bodies. When they're inside huge wire nets they often struggle for air or due to stress, and end up cutting themselves on the netting and bleeding to death extremely slowly. This is far more inhumane than a swift sharp cut to the neck of a farm animal which would immediately starve its brain of its oxygen and render it senseless.
But people are far more quick to condemn Halal slaughter than the standard, widespread methods of fishing, which would lead me to believe that the reason behind it is not purely one of animal welfare concern.
I also note that whenever this subject is discussed it's always "Halal" slaughter that's being mentioned. However, Halal slaughter does not actually prohibit the pre-stunning of the animal. In fact, the vast majority of Halal meat in the UK is pre-stunned, and from a non-religious point of view, is exactly the same as any other meat, just with a few prayers uttered over it. It is actually Kosher meat which must never be stunned from beforehand, and yet it's always the concept of Halal meat which is attacked first.
There are many examples of ways in which we make animals suffer far more than farm animals being slaughtered for food. For example when we catch fish, they're suffocated to death or subjected to repeated blunt forces to stop them from moving around too much while fully conscious. They're often brought up from deep within the ocean that the quick pressure changes result in their eyes or guts popping out from their bodies. When they're inside huge wire nets they often struggle for air or due to stress, and end up cutting themselves on the netting and bleeding to death extremely slowly. This is far more inhumane than a swift sharp cut to the neck of a farm animal which would immediately starve its brain of its oxygen and render it senseless.
But people are far more quick to condemn Halal slaughter than the standard, widespread methods of fishing, which would lead me to believe that the reason behind it is not purely one of animal welfare concern.
I also note that whenever this subject is discussed it's always "Halal" slaughter that's being mentioned. However, Halal slaughter does not actually prohibit the pre-stunning of the animal. In fact, the vast majority of Halal meat in the UK is pre-stunned, and from a non-religious point of view, is exactly the same as any other meat, just with a few prayers uttered over it. It is actually Kosher meat which must never be stunned from beforehand, and yet it's always the concept of Halal meat which is attacked first.
Original post by tazarooni89
I wouldn't necessarily say they're Islamophobic. But of course there is a chance they could be, and only really opposing Halal slaughter because of its association with Islam.
There are many examples of ways in which we make animals suffer far more than farm animals being slaughtered for food. For example when we catch fish, they're suffocated to death or subjected to repeated blunt forces to stop them from moving around too much while fully conscious. They're often brought up from deep within the ocean that the quick pressure changes result in their eyes or guts popping out from their bodies. When they're inside huge wire nets they often struggle for air or due to stress, and end up cutting themselves on the netting and bleeding to death extremely slowly. This is far more inhumane than a swift sharp cut to the neck of a farm animal which would immediately starve its brain of its oxygen and render it senseless.
But people are far more quick to condemn Halal slaughter than the standard, widespread methods of fishing, which would lead me to believe that the reason behind it is not purely one of animal welfare concern.
I also note that whenever this subject is discussed it's always "Halal" slaughter that's being mentioned. However, Halal slaughter does not actually prohibit the pre-stunning of the animal. In fact, the vast majority of Halal meat in the UK is pre-stunned, and from a non-religious point of view, is exactly the same as any other meat, just with a few prayers uttered over it. It is actually Kosher meat which must never be stunned from beforehand, and yet it's always the concept of Halal meat which is attacked first.
There are many examples of ways in which we make animals suffer far more than farm animals being slaughtered for food. For example when we catch fish, they're suffocated to death or subjected to repeated blunt forces to stop them from moving around too much while fully conscious. They're often brought up from deep within the ocean that the quick pressure changes result in their eyes or guts popping out from their bodies. When they're inside huge wire nets they often struggle for air or due to stress, and end up cutting themselves on the netting and bleeding to death extremely slowly. This is far more inhumane than a swift sharp cut to the neck of a farm animal which would immediately starve its brain of its oxygen and render it senseless.
But people are far more quick to condemn Halal slaughter than the standard, widespread methods of fishing, which would lead me to believe that the reason behind it is not purely one of animal welfare concern.
I also note that whenever this subject is discussed it's always "Halal" slaughter that's being mentioned. However, Halal slaughter does not actually prohibit the pre-stunning of the animal. In fact, the vast majority of Halal meat in the UK is pre-stunned, and from a non-religious point of view, is exactly the same as any other meat, just with a few prayers uttered over it. It is actually Kosher meat which must never be stunned from beforehand, and yet it's always the concept of Halal meat which is attacked first.
But fish have a lot less conciousness than farm animals.You can't really compare the two.Just like killing a mouse is not as bad as killing a dog.So your example doesn't hold up.I don't see why religous people get to have an exception.We have a set standard for animal welfare.You cannot normally kill a farm animal without stunning in this country.But as soon as a religous person comes along and says I have this special belief.Then the authorities bend over backwards for them.Religous belief is just a set of beliefs like any other.There is nothing special about them except the passage of long periods of time.As such they should not be more priveleged than any other set of beliefs and certainly shouldn't trump an animals freedom to die in no more pain than necessary.
Original post by MrsSheldonCooper
Vegetarian here and completely against halal and kosher slaughter. I laugh when people say the animal can't feel anything during halal slaughter because it can to an extent. Imo if you want to kill an animal just behead it or something.
Yes, it can feel pain but the objective of any religious slaughter, at least with regards to Abrahamic religions, is to cause the least amount of pain to the animal. For Islam they have Halal, and for Judaism they have Kosher. Both are similar. Islam is also a semi-vegetarian religion, Muslims are discouraged from eating meat often.
The conditions of Halal:
•
The animal to be slaughtered must be from the categories that are permitted for Muslims to eat.
•
The animal must be alive at the time of slaughter.
•
No electric shock, bullet or any other means should be used before slaughtering. Using any such method may lead to the death of the animal before it is cut. Islam prohibits Muslims from eating any meat coming from an animal that is dead before slaughter. Muslims are also advised to avoid eating anything doubtful.
•
The animal must be slaughtered by the use of a sharp knife. The knife must not kill due to its weight. If it kills due to the impact the meat may not be permissible.
•
The windpipe (throat), food-tract (oesophagus) and the two jugular veins must be cut.
•
The slaughtering must be done in one stroke without lifting the knife. The knife should not be placed and lifted when slaughtering the animal.
•
Slaughtering must be done by a sane adult Muslim. Animals slaughtered by a Non Muslim will not be Halal.
•
The name of Allah must be invoked (mentioned) at the time of slaughtering by saying:
Bismillah Allahu Akbar. (In the Name of Allah; Allah is the Greatest.)
•
If at the time of slaughtering the name of anyone else other than Allah is invoked (i.e. animal sacrificed for him/her), then the meat becomes Haram “unlawful.”
•
If a Muslim forgets to invoke the name of Allah at the time of slaughtering, the meat will remain Halal. However, if he intentionally does not invoke the name of Allah, the meat becomes Haram.
•
The head of the animal must not be cut off during slaughtering but later after the animal is completely dead, even the knife should not go deep into the spinal cord.
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Skinning or cutting any part of the animal is not allowed before the animal is completely dead.
•
Slaughtering must be made in the neck from the front (chest) to the back.
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The slaughtering must be done manually not by a machine, as one of the conditions is the intention, which is not found in a machine.
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The slaughtering should not be done on a production line where pigs are slaughtered. Any instrument used for slaughtering pigs should not be used in the Halal slaughtering.
•
Water should be offered to the animal before slaughter, and it should not be slaughtered when hungry.
•
The knife should be hidden from the animal, and slaughtering should be done out of sight of other animals waiting to be slaughtered.
•
Animals should be killed in a comfortable way. Unnecessary suffering to them must be avoided.
•
The knife should be re-sharpened before slaughter.
Is it so barbaric?
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by Robby2312
But fish have a lot less conciousness than farm animals. You can't really compare the two.Just like killing a mouse is not as bad as killing a dog. So your example doesn't hold up.
What do you mean by "less consciousness"? How exactly have you measured the "amount" of consciousness a fish has against that of something like a chicken? Do you have any evidence to back this claim up, or are you just guessing based on the size of the animal?
I don't see why religous people get to have an exception.We have a set standard for animal welfare.You cannot normally kill a farm animal without stunning in this country.But as soon as a religous person comes along and says I have this special belief.Then the authorities bend over backwards for them.Religous belief is just a set of beliefs like any other.There is nothing special about them except the passage of long periods of time.As such they should not be more priveleged than any other set of beliefs and certainly shouldn't trump an animals freedom to die in no more pain than necessary.
Well that's the point I'm making. Most people's opposition to religious slaughter is more deeply rooted in an opposition to religion itself, or their feeling that religious people are getting an "exemption", rather than it being to do with the welfare or suffering of the animal. If all non-religious people were slaughtering animals in precisely the same way (as they were, before stunning methods were invented), I suppose you wouldn't have a problem with this type of slaughter?
Original post by tazarooni89
What do you mean by "less consciousness"? How exactly have you measured the "amount" of consciousness a fish has against that of something like a chicken? Do you have any evidence to back this claim up, or are you just guessing based on the size of the animal?
Well that's the point I'm making. Most people's opposition to religious slaughter is more deeply rooted in an opposition to religion itself, or their feeling that religious people are getting an "exemption", rather than it being to do with the welfare or suffering of the animal. If all non-religious people were slaughtering animals in precisely the same way (as they were, before stunning methods were invented), I suppose you wouldn't have a problem with this type of slaughter?
Well that's the point I'm making. Most people's opposition to religious slaughter is more deeply rooted in an opposition to religion itself, or their feeling that religious people are getting an "exemption", rather than it being to do with the welfare or suffering of the animal. If all non-religious people were slaughtering animals in precisely the same way (as they were, before stunning methods were invented), I suppose you wouldn't have a problem with this type of slaughter?
I was actually thinking more like a fish and a cow tbh.Humans are animals and I'd like to think we are more concious of the world and have greater intelligence than a fish.Evidently then not all animals have the same level of conciousness.The point is not all animals are equal.If you are going to make that claim then why stop at fish? Spiders are animals.Is it morally wrong to kill them? So its clearly more acceptable to kill some animals than others.Nobody will care if you kill an ant but if you kill a great ape like a chimp you'll probably get a lot more flak and maybe jailtime.
No it is to do with the welfare of the animal.Religous people are getting an exception where they get to be more cruel to an animal simply because of their beliefs.Its not to do with religous hatred.Its just the recognition that their beliefs are not special and as such they should have to abide by the same animal welfare standards as the rest of us.
I think you should be able to slaughter animals however you want. I agree that there isn't much difference between halal and ordinary methods.
Much of the opposition is because it helps those who maintain the contradictory position of caring about animal welfare and eating meat feel better. I don't think they are being Islamophobic.
I wish more people would be like me and admit that they don't care about animals because if as a society we continue down the path of personifying animals then the only destination is veganism.
Much of the opposition is because it helps those who maintain the contradictory position of caring about animal welfare and eating meat feel better. I don't think they are being Islamophobic.
I wish more people would be like me and admit that they don't care about animals because if as a society we continue down the path of personifying animals then the only destination is veganism.
Only people that have a reasonable argument against Halal slaughtering are those who are vegetarian or vegan otherwise, I shall proceed to send links of non-halal British slaughter houses and boy, is you going to feel sick - this is only if you want me to.
That moment you realise that non-Muslims are capable of evil things too.
-_-
That moment you realise that non-Muslims are capable of evil things too.
-_-
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