Physician Associate

Original post by jackroster

Yeah! mine is on Monday! I wonder what they'll be testing us for 4 hours!!

So is mine! I'm nervous not going to lie. I'm wondering whether the 'written exercise' is academic based as I definitely need a refresher course haha.

Reply 65

ZKay

Hey does anyone else have an offer from Queen Mary Jan entry??

Reply 66

Perhaps everything was the wrong term and I didn't say one would be a doctor. But you do take histories, do physical examinations and diagnostic tests of varying complexity depending on your experience. You also order diagnostic tests and bloods basically everything to form a differential diagnosis, which you also do yourself (if its within the conditions that you cover, otherwise you refer to doctor). If you disagree with any of this please tell the faculty as that's where I got this info from.

Original post by Reality Check

This keeps coming up over and over again. You are not doing 'everything that a doctor normally does'. You are not a doctor. You are a doctor's assistant.

@nexttime
@Democracy

Reply 67

Original post by Reality Check

This keeps coming up over and over again. You are not doing 'everything that a doctor normally does'. You are not a doctor. You are a doctor's assistant.

@nexttime
@Democracy

Also I don't think it's a good idea to use the term assistant to describe them as it is very inaccurate and there is a reason why we use the term associate, because in day to day practice they have a fair amount of autonomy. Obviously when forming the management plan they consult with their supervising doctor, but a doctor's 'assistant' wouldn't independently interpret an ECG and order a Trop for a suspected NSTEMI/STEMI. An experienced doctor's 'assistant' wouldn't fit a chest drain or do lumbar punctures as some Physician Associates are doing at the moment.

Reply 68

Reality Check

22

Original post by Ilir1989

Also I don't think it's a good idea to use the term assistant to describe them as it is very inaccurate and there is a reason why we use the term associate, because in day to day practice they have a fair amount of autonomy. Obviously when forming the management plan they consult with their supervising doctor, but a doctor's 'assistant' wouldn't independently interpret an ECG and order a Trop for a suspected NSTEMI/STEMI. An experienced doctor's 'assistant' wouldn't fit a chest drain or do lumbar punctures as some Physician Associates are doing at the moment.

For someone who hasn't even started the course, you're coming across as very opinionated. I think it's this attitude which can antagonise some people.

Reply 69

Original post by Reality Check

For someone who hasn't even started the course, you're coming across as incredibly bumptious. I think it's this attitude which antagonises people.

My information comes from research consisting of faculty information, census stats and in depth conversations with both PA students and practising PAs. Just as you did with me, if I see someone spreading what I feel is the wrong message I'll say so. If you are uncomfortable with me being assertive and confident in my expression then I'm sorry, but that isn't really my responsibility is it. Also if you disagree with me then please try and come back with something structured instead of flinging out names, no matter how clever the word 'bumptious' sounds.

Reply 70

Reality Check

22

Original post by Ilir1989

My information comes from research consisting of faculty information, census stats and in depth conversations with both PA students and practising PAs. Just as you did with me, if I see someone spreading what I feel is the wrong message I'll say so. If you are uncomfortable with me being assertive and confident in my expression then I'm sorry, but that isn't really my responsibility is it. Also if you disagree with me then please try and come back with something structured instead of flinging out names, no matter how clever the word 'bumptious' sounds.

A little humility may suit you better. You will be doing routine work more akin to a nurse practitioner than a GP for most of the time, and this overconfident attitude may sit badly with doctors. Trust me. However, I do understand the motivation behind why you want to give the impression that you will be GP in all but name.

I think we'll leave it there. I have no further comments to add to this thread. Good luck with your studies

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 71

Original post by Reality Check

A little humility may suit you better. You will be doing very routine work more akin to a nurse practitioner than a GP for most of the time, and this overconfident attitude will sit badly with doctors. Trust me. However, I do understand the motivation behind why you want to give the impression that you are a doctor in all but name.

I think we'll leave it there. I have no further comments to add to this thread. Good luck with your studies as a Physician's Assistant.

That isn't the impression that I wanted to give, but if that's what you think then that's a shame. I will value your advice about the overconfidence bit. My opinions and conversations about Physician Associates have sat well with the junior doctors and consultants I speak with and work along side on a daily basis, but I will trust you because you clearly must have all of the experience that warrants me trusting you. It's also a shame that you aren't commenting anymore! I was genuinely interested to know what you meant specifically by the nurse practitioner duties bit. Oh and you got it wrong again sorry, it's Physician Associate :-) xxxx

Reply 72

Original post by Ilir1989

Also I don't think it's a good idea to use the term assistant to describe them as it is very inaccurate and there is a reason why we use the term associate, because in day to day practice they have a fair amount of autonomy.

To be fair you *were* called Physician Assistants though weren't you? I can call myself the High Inquisitor if I fancy it, but it doesn't make me Dolores Umbridge.

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Reply 73

Original post by fleur_de_haine

To be fair you *were* called Physician Assistants though weren't you? I can call myself the High Inquisitor if I fancy it, but it doesn't make me Dolores Umbridge.

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I believe it was considered in the beginning yes. But there were other professions that had the name Physician Assistant such as people who were directly performing tasks like ECG and phleb, as well as Anaethetist Assistants. But these professions work under the direct orders of their supervisors hence the term assistant. Physician Associates have more autonomy than that, seeing their own patients as they come in and then consulting with their supervising doctor when necessary. That's why the Royal College of Physicians is trying to get them regulated.

Reply 74

Original post by Ilir1989

I believe it was considered in the beginning yes. But there were other professions that had the name Physician Assistant such as people who were directly performing tasks like ECG and phleb, as well as Anaethetist Assistants. But these professions work under the direct orders of their supervisors hence the term assistant. Physician Associates have more autonomy than that, seeing their own patients as they come in and then consulting with their supervising doctor when necessary. That's why the Royal College of Physicians is trying to get them regulated.

As far as I remember it wasn't 'considered' it was actually used. I imagine this refrain is why people get so tied up in knots about PAs; it seems as though every and any interaction one has with a PA the answer is 'we're autonomous, we're just like doctors' even if the question is 'what time is it?'

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Reply 75

Original post by fleur_de_haine

As far as I remember it wasn't 'considered' it was actually used. I imagine this refrain is why people get so tied up in knots about PAs; it seems as though every and any interaction one has with a PA the answer is 'we're autonomous, we're just like doctors' even if the question is 'what time is it?'

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I don't know what PAs you have spoken to but any PA who says they are like a doctor should not be a PA as they clewrly dont understand the limits of their job. I became a PA specifically because I like medicine but I don't want to become a doctor. I prefer to answer to someone in my job and I don't like the way the job has evolved; seeing patients for 5 minutes and being a glorified clerk. Also I never said we like to say we're autonomous. There's a difference between saying you have more autonomy than an assistant and being autonomous.

Reply 76

YorkshireSoapCo

10

Original post by fleur_de_haine

To be fair you *were* called Physician Assistants though weren't you? I can call myself the High Inquisitor if I fancy it, but it doesn't make me Dolores Umbridge.

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Physician assistant is a completely different role to physician associate in the UK.

Physician assistant is similar to an ODP

Reply 77

Original post by jones10

Physician assistant is a completely different role to physician associate in the UK.

Physician assistant is similar to an ODP

As recently as 2012 the Physician Associates were referred to as Physician Assistants. This is probably best exemplified by the document still shared by the Faculty of Physician Associates outlining the competence and curriculum framework for the profession - http://www.fparcp.co.uk/

You will note that my post simply highlighted the fact that the role *was* termed Physician Assistant, but please feel free to continue to miss the point spectacularly.

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Reply 78