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Maths C3 - Differentiation... Help??

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Original post by Philip-flop
Oh right I see. So that gives me...
dydx=vduv2dxudvv2dx \frac{dy}{dx} = \frac{v du}{v^2 dx} - \frac{u dv}{v^2 dx}

But then how do I go from this to?...
dydx=vdudxudvdxv2 \frac{dy}{dx} = \frac{v \frac{du}{dx} - u \frac{dv}{dx}}{v^2}


Marks may well be deducted if you treat dudx\frac{du}{dx} as fractions like that.

dydx=vv2dudxuv2dvdx \frac{dy}{dx} = \frac{v}{v^2}\frac{du}{dx} - \frac{u}{v^2}\frac{dv}{dx}

They are Leibniz notation not fractions.
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by X_IDE_sidf
Marks may well be deducted if you treat dudx\frac{du}{dx} as fractions like that.

dydx=vv2dudxuv2dvdx \frac{dy}{dx} = \frac{v}{v^2}\frac{du}{dx} - \frac{u}{v^2}\frac{dv}{dx}


What? How else are you meant to prove it? :frown:
Original post by Philip-flop
What? How else are you meant to prove it? :frown:


I'm probably being a tad pedantic but you shouldn't treat dydx\frac{dy}{dx} as a fraction and combine it like normal fractions, this is because it isn't a fraction.

Just keep the multiplication obviously separate.
So I'm a little confused with how to these...

C3 EXE 8E Q1.png

I would know how to do these, if for example I take part (a), I would let y=ln(x+1) y = ln(x+1) and then work from there. But how do I do this when I have to let f(x)=ln(x+1) f(x) = ln(x+1) ??
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by Philip-flop
So I'm a little confused with how to these...

C3 EXE 8E Q1.png

I would know how to do these, if for example I take part (a), I would let y=ln(x+1) y = ln(x+1) and then work from there. But how do I do this when I have to let f(x)=ln(x+1) f(x) = ln(x+1) ??


y=ln(x+1)y=\ln(x+1) is introducing a variable yy which is dependent on xx. When you have f(x)=ln(x+1)f(x)=\ln(x+1) there is absolutely no difference except from the fact that you do not have a y-variable anymore, you simply have a function through which you plug in a number, x, and get a number out.

If it makes it easier for you, you may change f(x) to y and work from there, you will get the same results.
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by Philip-flop
So I'm a little confused with how to these...

C3 EXE 8E Q1.png

I would know how to do these, if for example I take part (a), I would let y=ln(x+1) y = ln(x+1) and then work from there. But how do I do this when I have to let f(x)=ln(x+1) f(x) = ln(x+1) ??


yeah. y=f(x) y= f(x) .
If y=ln(x+1),letu=x+1,hencey=ln(u), y= ln(x+1), let u = x+1, hence y= ln(u), now work out du/dx then dy/du. ln(x)=1/x,soln(u)=1/u. ln(x) = 1/x, so ln(u)= 1/u. Then multiply and work out dy/dx :smile:
Also, imo c3 ch.8 is a nice way to end the book! Compared to the complexity of parts in ch.7, lol.
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by RDKGames
y=ln(x+1)y=\ln(x+1) is introducing a variable yy which is dependent on xx. When you have f(x)=ln(x+1)f(x)=\ln(x+1) there is absolutely no difference except from the fact that you do not have a y-variable anymore, you simply have a function through which you plug in a number, x, and get a number out.

If it makes it easier for you, you may change f(x) to y and work from there, you will get the same results.


Oh yeah!! Panic over :colondollar: Thanks @RDKGames !!

So for part (a) I would do exactly what I've been doing...

f(x)=ln(x+1) f(x) = ln(x+1)

let... t=x+1 t=x+1

This implies that... dtdx=1 \frac{dt}{dx} = 1 and that... d[f(x)]dt=1t \frac{d[f(x)]}{dt} = \frac{1}{t}

Using the chain rule...
f(x)=d[f(x)]dt×dtdxf'(x) = \frac{d[f(x)]}{dt} \times \frac{dt}{dx}

f(x)=1t×1 f'(x) = \frac{1}{t} \times 1

f(x)=1t f'(x) = \frac{1}{t}

f(x)=1x+1 f'(x) = \frac{1}{x+1}

Original post by pereira325
yeah. y=f(x) y= f(x) .
If y=ln(x+1),letu=x+1,hencey=ln(u), y= ln(x+1), let u = x+1, hence y= ln(u), now work out du/dx then dy/du. ln(x)=1/x,soln(u)=1/u. ln(x) = 1/x, so ln(u)= 1/u. Then multiply and work out dy/dx :smile:
Also, imo c3 ch.8 is a nice way to end the book! Compared to the complexity of parts in ch.7, lol.

Thank you!!

Yeah Chapter 7 was very difficult for me :frown:
(edited 7 years ago)
Hi everyone, you'll be pleased to know that I've finally got to the end of the Edexcel C3 Modular Maths Textbook!! :smile:

The bad news is... I'll be starting C4 sometime next week :colondollar:

Thanks to everyone who has helped me, I seriously appreciate it!!
Reply 48
Original post by Philip-flop
Hi everyone, you'll be pleased to know that I've finally got to the end of the Edexcel C3 Modular Maths Textbook!! :smile:

The bad news is... I'll be starting C4 sometime next week :colondollar:

Thanks to everyone who has helped me, I seriously appreciate it!!


Congrats!

Make sure you do some past papers or you'll get rusty!
Original post by Philip-flop
Hi everyone, you'll be pleased to know that I've finally got to the end of the Edexcel C3 Modular Maths Textbook!! :smile:

The bad news is... I'll be starting C4 sometime next week :colondollar:

Thanks to everyone who has helped me, I seriously appreciate it!!


Well done.

I expect a "Maths C4 - Partial Fractions... Help??" thread soon.
Original post by Naruke
Congrats!

Make sure you do some past papers or you'll get rusty!


Yeah Im going to try and do at least one past paper every two weeks, and go over some questions from the modular maths textbooks too :smile:
Original post by RDKGames
Well done.

I expect a "Maths C4 - Partial Fractions... Help??" thread soon.

Hahaha!! This made me chuckle! Am I that predictable? :tongue: :colondollar:

Thanks for always helping me out though man! I would still be stuck on half the C3 content if it wasn't for you!!
So I've just looked over all my notes made from C3... Can anyone tell me what the following forms are, and when they might be needed/applied? I remember @Zacken mentioning these to me and I found them being very useful. But I can't remember for what topic/s.

(a+b)2=a2+2ab+b2 (a+b)^2 = a^2 + 2ab + b^2

(ab)2=a22ab+b2 (a-b)^2 = a^2 - 2ab + b^2
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by Philip-flop
So I've just looked over all my notes made from C3... Can anyone tell me what the following forms are, and when they might be needed/applied? I remember @Zacken mentioning these to me and I found them being very useful. But I can't remember for what topic/s.

(a+b)2=a2+2ab+b2 (a+b)^2 = a^2 + 2ab + b^2

(ab)2=a22ab+b2 (a-b)^2 = a^2 - 2ab + b^2


Those don't link to any specific topics - they're just basic, general expansions.

(x+y)(xy)=x2y2(x+y)(x-y)=x^2-y^2 can be a more useful technique to use at times, but again, it doesn't tie into any particular topic - it's just general subject knowledge. You can use this when you see a difference of two squares.
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by RDKGames
Those don't link to any specific topics - they're just basic, general expansions.

(x+y)(xy)=x2y2(x+y)(x-y)=x^2-y^2 can be a more useful technique to use at times, but again, it doesn't tie into any particular topic - it's just general subject knowledge. You can use this when you see a difference of two squares.


Yeah I also made note of the difference of two squares too as it is used quite frequently throughout C3 :smile:
I just thought... (a+b)2=a2+2ab+b2 (a+b)^2 = a^2 + 2ab + b^2 and (ab)2=a22ab+b2 (a-b)^2 = a^2 - 2ab + b^2 might have had a name to it. One way I remember it is that it's similar to the form of Completing the Square :smile:

Thanks a lot @RDKGames !!
Ok so I know this isn't a differentiation question but I didn't know what one of my threads to post in. Part (c) is so tricky I really don't even know how to start :frown:

C3 June 2007 Q8.png
Reply 56
Original post by Philip-flop
Ok so I know this isn't a differentiation question but I didn't know what one of my threads to post in. Part (c) is so tricky I really don't even know how to start :frown:


So you have x(t)=De18tx(t) = De^{-\frac{1}{8}t}. Then part(a) gets you to say that at t=0t=0 you have x(0)=10=Dx(0) = 10 = D. So this determines x(t)=10et/8x(t) = 10e^{-t/8}.

Now in (c) you want the time TT satisfying x(T)=3x(T) = 3. So all they want is for you to solve the equation eT/8=3e^{-T/8} = 3 which can be done by taking logarithms of both sides.

Which bit in particular is tripping you up?
Original post by Zacken
So you have x(t)=De18tx(t) = De^{-\frac{1}{8}t}. Then part(a) gets you to say that at t=0t=0 you have x(0)=10=Dx(0) = 10 = D. So this determines x(t)=10et/8x(t) = 10e^{-t/8}.

Now in (c) you want the time TT satisfying x(T)=3x(T) = 3. So all they want is for you to solve the equation eT/8=3e^{-T/8} = 3 which can be done by taking logarithms of both sides.

Which bit in particular is tripping you up?

Ok, so for part (c)...

I know that after the second dose of the drug is given t=5 t=5 where t is the time in hours.

But I need to find T T , the extra time (in hours) when x x , the amount of drug in the bloodstream is equal to 3mg meaning that x=3 x = 3

Therefore...
10e18(5+T)+10e18(T)=3 10 e^{- \frac{1}{8} (5 + T)} + 10 e^{- \frac{1}{8} (T) } = 3

But then I just get stuck from there :frown:
Reply 58
Original post by Philip-flop
Ok, so for part (c)...

I know that after the second dose of the drug is given t=5 t=5 where t is the time in hours.

But I need to find T T , the extra time (in hours) when x x , the amount of drug in the bloodstream is equal to 3mg meaning that x=3 x = 3

Therefore...
10e18(5+T)+10e18(T)=3 10 e^{- \frac{1}{8} (5 + T)} + 10 e^{- \frac{1}{8} (T) } = 3

But then I just get stuck from there :frown:


Okay, I was tired last night. So from your equation: 10(e5/8T/8+eT/8)=10eT/8(e5/8+1)=310(e^{-5/8 - T/8} + e^{-T/8}) = 10e^{-T/8}(e^{-5/8} + 1) = 3 which is easily solvable
Original post by Zacken
Okay, I was tired last night. So from your equation: 10(e5/8T/8+eT/8)=10eT/8(e5/8+1)=310(e^{-5/8 - T/8} + e^{-T/8}) = 10e^{-T/8}(e^{-5/8} + 1) = 3 which is easily solvable


Oh yeah!! A simple indices rule then taking out a common factor could have given me...
10e18(5+T)+10e18(T)=3 10 e^{- \frac{1}{8} (5 + T)} + 10 e^{- \frac{1}{8} (T) } = 3

10eT/8(e5/8+1)=3 10e^{-T/8}(e^{-5/8} + 1) = 3

then I could divide both sides by 10 and then take logs to both sides, then times both sides by -8 to give...

T=8ln(310(e58+1)) T = -8 ln ( \frac{3}{10( e^{- \frac{5}{8}} +1) } )

which gives...

T=13.1 T = 13.1 to 3sf


Thanks @Zacken

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