Do people not realize heavy handed nationalism is dangerous?

Like please humanity this is terrible and has got to stop. Nationalism is the belief of promoting your countries interests in favor of others and to essentially not give a single **** about others. Sounds great right? Well this is the same mindset that Mussolini and others when Fascism started. Fascism roughly means a bundle of rods, the group of a country and implies ultra-nationalism to protect the country and often the race. This type of mindset by nature breaks down co-operation and leads to hatred and wars.

Don't be disingenuous and say that there are no similarities of right wing populism and Fascism in the 20th century which the extreme parts like the holocaust didn't happen overnight. You can say things are not the same but it is the same poison in the end, just look at all the friends Trump is making months before he has even entered office.

This is only the start things will change quickly for the worse. Next year is when we live through the consequences brexit will be triggered, Trump enters office and the other EU countries will vote for similar things which you can see if you look at France, Germany, etc...

I don't love the status quo but I understand things can get worse.

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 1

Fractite

I don't think anyone has the right to predict anything anymore based on recent events.

Reply 2

cambio wechsel

Original post by Scottish Person

Nationalism is the belief of promoting your countries interests in favor of others and to essentially not give a single **** about others.

more than 90% of your country's MPs are nationalists. This can surely be true nowhere else in the world. Like you, I don't agree with them but I don't think comparisons with the monsters of 20th century history are yet sustainable.

Reply 3

βradley

Original post by Fractite

I don't think anyone has the right to predict anything anymore based on recent events.

For real

Reply 4

Mistletoe

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sgd9nYqVz2s

Reply 5

Mistletoe

Nothing wrong with nationalism if you're from a virtuous nation and proud of it for that reason :smile:

Reply 6

Trapz99

Nationalism is different from fascism. I'm sure that most people would consider themselves to like their country more than others and want it to succeed. A lot of countries are quite nationalist and aren't having any problems, such as Japan and India.

Reply 7

Tempest II

"The difference between Patriotism and Nationalism is that the patriot is proud of his country for what it does, and the nationalistis is proud of his country no matter what it does; the first attitude creates a feeling of responsibility while the second a feeling of blind arrogance that leads to a war ."
(Sidney J Harris)

I personally agree with this quote. I do feel like nationalism can be dangerous & definitely so when people combine nationalism with an air of superiority based only on skin colour.
However I do think that some confuse nationalism & patriotism - for me there is a difference. You can certainly be proud of your country & its culture while still accepting the short comings and therefore trying to solve these to make your country better.

Reply 8

astutehirstute

Original post by Scottish Person

Like please humanity this is terrible and has got to stop. Nationalism is the belief of promoting your countries interests in favor of others and to essentially not give a single **** about others. .

It isn't going to stop. The power of nationalism is far greater than internationalism and globalisation, that is just how it is.

But if you want it to, the first place to start is your own homeland.

Did you vote in the independence referendum? If you did, how so?

Start in your own country, defeat Scottish nationalism, and then you can confront everyone elses.

Do you see my point? It is not going to happen is it?

Reply 9

Cato the Elder

An anti-nationalist whose username is "Scottish Person", lol...

Reply 10

The Last Citizen

Original post by Scottish Person

Don't be disingenuous and say that there are no similarities of right wing populism and Fascism in the 20th century which the extreme parts like the holocaust didn't happen overnight. You can say things are not the same but it is the same poison in the end, just look at all the friends Trump is making months before he has even entered office.

What's disingenuous about it? You are being disingenuous by refusing to acknowledge the similarities between the EU/the quest among politicians and intelligentsia for a global government which no-one wants (lack of consent from the electorate; remind you of anything?), and fascism. Look at which side is anti-democratic, and calling for referendums to be over-turned and elections to be held again. Look at which side ignored the outcome of popular referenda, and went ahead with their own plans anyway (eg, The EU).

Look at which side has spent the entire election beating the crap out of Trump voters, protesting everything in sight, and banning free speech across all platforms, never mind making base, emotional appeals to people's humanity (a common tactic among dictators; in fact every dictator of the 20th century rose to power on an appeal to altruism). Look at which side wants to close he opposition down under a tidal wave of exploitative rhetoric (Racism! Fascism! Misogyny!) and identity-wafare soundbites, to prevent any possibility of constructive dialogue.

Fascism? No, The National Socialist German Workers Party. It deplored laissez faire capitalism, it loathed individual liberty (a bit like the modern globalists, particularly in their inability to honour classical liberalism and assign rights and responsibilities to INDIVIDUALS, not GROUPS) and its leader was a self-avowed socialist.

When in power, they were in favour of the green movement, they controlled the means of production in everything but name and they centralised every shred of social power; they made consistent appeals to people's altruism, in favour of their native Germany (in a very similar fashion to progressive appeals to our 'humanity'). Yes, they destroyed the trade unions, however I hardly think that's indicative of anything - so did the communists.

Then there's Mussolini. He advocated the minimum wage, progressive taxation, abolishing the upper-chamber, lowering the voting age, 'gender equality' and was overwhelmingly supported by the self-proclaimed 'progressives' of the day.

I also assume you aren't a Scottish nationalist? Or is that 'nice nationalism'? To whatever extent it helps, it appears you oppose ethnic nationalism, not nationalism. It's a bit like conflating the Labour Party with the Conservative Party because they're both 'political parties.'

What you've also done is polarised nationalism; you've given us a reductionist, anti-intellectual argument which only looks at nationalism in singular terms: fascism. It ignores that the nation-state is the primary actor, and has been for centuries, in international relations. It ignores the fact there are 200 nation-states all over the world which conform to the same paradigm; it ignores the fact every Empire (of the type your side has wet dreams over, largely because it's obsessed with controlling speech and leveraging power), in the history of civilisation, has fallen.

It ignores the fact that this age of peace of prosperity was achieved between nation-states.

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 11

Michael_Fishy

Original post by Scottish Person

You've been ideologically indoctrinated. Fascism and Nationalism are not synonymous. Nor does nationalism lead to fascism. You're making hyperbolic assumptions based on based on fundamental untruths. Expose yourself to some right-wing and nationalist views and you'll soon change your tone.

Its people like you that got trump elected. The Rightwing=Facisim=Bad mentality, the labeling anything you don't like as racist/sexist etc (not said but implied) has driven people with normal and reasonable views to the right because you've branded them as dangerous. You lower the level of intellectual discussion to its lowest common denominator and ruin any chance of a reasonable discussion by misrepresenting your opponent.

Grow up. Get educated and open your mind to other points of view, instead of labeling them as destroying humanity,

Reply 12

sleepysnooze

do you know what is just as bad as ultra-nationalism (as in far rightism)? shame culture. like ours right now in the west.
because shame culture is that, instead of the minority being bad, it is the *majority* being bad
and you know what? usually I'm more inclined to say that if a majority of a nation is mistreated by their government or even themselves by that shame, then that's substantially worse than that kind of threatening form of nationalism, because at least it's only a technical minority that are mistreated in that case. I want everybody to be equal - I don't want either one of these extremes. nationalism with a lower case n is fine - that is the principle by which we rule ourselves - as nations - and we as citizens and taxpayers should defend, firstly, ourselves, and then everybody else in the world, possibly, in THAT order. I see absolutely nothing wrong with this principle. the idea that we are indebted to other countries or even races because of what our ancestors did hundreds of years ago is an ideology that will see no end. it is a prejudicial ideology that brands perfectly innocent people in the west as evil when really we are usually the most civilised and tolerant. because honestly, EVERYBODY's ancestors have done *something* wrong. everybody is technically related to at least one rapist in the human timeline - does that mean that we're all guilty for that rapist's crime? nope - the same logic applies here - when we're born, we're a fresh slate.

I am going to remain optimistic that brexit and trump's effects will gradually recede that shame culture that began in the mid 2000s and dispatch it forever into the dustin of history

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 13

1010marina

Nationalism is in human nature more deeply than anything else

Reply 14

Mekkiii

Americanism not globalism, will be our credo!

Reply 15

The Last Citizen

Original post by 1010marina

Nationalism is in human nature more deeply than anything else

Human nature also used to be innately suspicious of authority. It appears they've beaten that out of the millennials, to the point they'll gladly sacrifice any and every shred of freedom or social power for more state power; it saves them having to worry about controlling their own lives.

'Give me The EU! Own me, control me, define me by my identity, not my personhood! Take representation away from me and give it to an authority thousands of miles away, I don't need it; people with smiles on their faces who pretend to protect 'women' and 'minorities' told me so!'

Reply 16

#ChaosKass

Why do you hate your country so much, liberals? Think of all the wonderful things that have come out of Britain - the monarchy, the British Empire, Thatcher, etc. You should be proud to be British, and seek to preserve traditional, conservative, Christian British culture wherever possible.

Reply 17

The Last Citizen

Original post by #ChaosKass

I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic but they don't, it's how they've been taught to think by relativists (Marxists). They don't even know they're thinking like relativists, or the implications of that, it's just how they've been taught to think:

1. There are no universal truths.

2. Morality is contextual - what's bad in the context of men isn't bad in the context of women; what's bad in the context of Christians isn't bad in the context of Muslims; what's bad in the context of white people isn't bad in the context of black people.

Absolutists? It really is quite simple: bad is bad, good is good. There's no discrimination.

3. It also determines that judging another's culture is a form of ethnocentrism, because all cultures have their own version of truth, and that truth is as valid as any other - no culture is 'superior' to any other. They determine that no culture is permitted to judge any other culture (although they apply this inconsistently).

Of course, under such a paradigm, you can justify all sorts of ills and wrongs, which is exactly what they (the intelligentsia) want. They (liberals) don't think any of this through, all they see are what they perceive to be altruistic people preaching about 'protecting' women and minorities, or 'white privilege' and 'toxic masculinity', and get onside like their repressed peers, while aping all their rhetoric.

It's all anti-intellectualism; in this world, ethics are no longer viable, nothing is true and the path is nihilism. Faceless drones (which is what relativism produces), as far as those in power are concerned, are far easier to manipulate.