If Marine Le Pen wins the election, then what next for the West?
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It's interesting how concerned the public is over immigration, and completely ignorant of pretty much everything else. Trump, Le Pen and the forces behind Brexit all have widely different policies but are all incredibly successful because of their hard-line position on immigration. That's incredibly disturbing. Whilst the shootings in San Bernardino, Pulse in Orlando, Paris are troubling, they aren't as troubling as the imminent disaster that will take place if Trump and Le Pen fail to tackle climate change. There has been little to no discussion about Trump's economic policies beyond "They took er jerbs, we need more jerbs". Along with the rise of far-right populism there has also been championing of anti-intellectualism, primarily with Brexiters saying we shouldn't listen to every single academic/think-tank that told us Brexit was a bad idea.
If France (5th largest economy) leaves the EU, then it's over. I foresee some really dark times ahead but hopefully, people will begin to realise how utterly absurd the far-right is after this period.
If France (5th largest economy) leaves the EU, then it's over. I foresee some really dark times ahead but hopefully, people will begin to realise how utterly absurd the far-right is after this period.
Original post by Sarahsez
So as a young British Muslim hijab wearing woman should I be worried? Do I not belong here?
You could always take your hijab off?
Original post by #ChaosKass
It'd mean the West could finally become the West again.
Trying to dismantle Western institutions and values sounds incredibly Western, doesn't it?
Nationalism and social conservatism are not what the West is known for.
Original post by AperfectBalance
Are you legal?,
do you follow western values (Equality and freedom of speech+ many more).
are you contributing to society or do you plan to if you are currently in school.
Do you follow English law and respect the Uk.
If not you should have no fear.
do you follow western values (Equality and freedom of speech+ many more).
are you contributing to society or do you plan to if you are currently in school.
Do you follow English law and respect the Uk.
If not you should have no fear.
I have a Masters degree and I'm in full time employment in a good job, I pay my taxes. But recently, it seems that is not enough for some people and I'm not welcomed here anymore all because I'm a Muslim and happen to wear a headscarf. Many people would gladly like to see me get deported. I'm one of "them".
It seems we will never truly be accepted no matter what we do.
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by AperfectBalance
Are you legal?,
do you follow western values (Equality and freedom of speech+ many more).
are you contributing to society or do you plan to if you are currently in school.
Do you follow English law and respect the Uk.
If not you should have no fear.
do you follow western values (Equality and freedom of speech+ many more).
are you contributing to society or do you plan to if you are currently in school.
Do you follow English law and respect the Uk.
If not you should have no fear.
Not everyone is as sensible as you unfortunately.
Original post by astutehirstute
You could always take your hijab off?
It says a lot about the some of the people in the uk if you have to suggest for her to take off her hijab in order to be accepted into society/safe.
Original post by StrawbAri
It says a lot about the some of the people in the uk if you have to suggest for her to take off her hijab in order to be accepted into society/safe.
I don't disagree. It is terrible that is coming to this.
Our multicultural society is in real danger of falling apart at the seams. We are still a very long way away from it being dangerous to wear a hijab to be fair.
But we are close to the situation where such an ostentatious display of Islamic identity as the hijab will betoken a lack of acceptance by the rest of society.
In fact in large parts of the country outside London, we are already there.
I am not saying it is a good thing, but telling it how it is.
Original post by astutehirstute
You could always take your hijab off?
Why should I?
We still live in a free country.
Original post by Sarahsez
Why should I?
We still live in a free country.
We still live in a free country.
Of course.
You simply asked if you belonged in today's UK , and I pointed out a way in which you could at a stroke, publicly demonstrate a desire to fit in.
You don't want to, and won't, I get that, but therein lies the whole problem of Muslim integration into the West.
In one short interchange on a message board.
It's ideological pressure.
What with Brexit and Trump's stance on particular issues (notably Muslims), the rise of right-wing politics in Europe over the coming years is near inevitable. America had the issue of the left branding everyone who disagreed with them as "racist" or "xenophobic" or "misogynistic" which is not true: some of them are, of course, but a lot of people clearly wanted change or didn't like the politics of Clinton or sided with Trump as they didn't like the fact that the alt-left silenced everyone else's opinion if they didn't agree with them, as well as the fact that around 40% of eligible voters didn't actually vote, but that's a story for another day...
Back to the topic at hand, France clearly knows that terrorism is a threat to their country - they've just had the one-year anniversary of the Paris Attacks, killing 130. It's still (reasonably) fresh in their minds, and they'd be stupid to overlook the threat.
Of course there has been a rise in anti-migration in recent times! People don't want a repeat of last year. The easy way out of it is to just stop migration altogether which some consider as "racist", but hey, screaming "racist" and "xenophobic" at everything landed Trump's victory.
What with Brexit and Trump's stance on particular issues (notably Muslims), the rise of right-wing politics in Europe over the coming years is near inevitable. America had the issue of the left branding everyone who disagreed with them as "racist" or "xenophobic" or "misogynistic" which is not true: some of them are, of course, but a lot of people clearly wanted change or didn't like the politics of Clinton or sided with Trump as they didn't like the fact that the alt-left silenced everyone else's opinion if they didn't agree with them, as well as the fact that around 40% of eligible voters didn't actually vote, but that's a story for another day...
Back to the topic at hand, France clearly knows that terrorism is a threat to their country - they've just had the one-year anniversary of the Paris Attacks, killing 130. It's still (reasonably) fresh in their minds, and they'd be stupid to overlook the threat.
Of course there has been a rise in anti-migration in recent times! People don't want a repeat of last year. The easy way out of it is to just stop migration altogether which some consider as "racist", but hey, screaming "racist" and "xenophobic" at everything landed Trump's victory.
Original post by astutehirstute
I don't disagree. It is terrible that is coming to this.
Our multicultural society is in real danger of falling apart at the seams. We are still a very long way away from it being dangerous to wear a hijab to be fair.
But we are close to the situation where such an ostentatious display of Islamic identity as the hijab will betoken a lack of acceptance by the rest of society.
In fact in large parts of the country outside London, we are already there.
I am not saying it is a good thing, but telling it how it is.
Our multicultural society is in real danger of falling apart at the seams. We are still a very long way away from it being dangerous to wear a hijab to be fair.
But we are close to the situation where such an ostentatious display of Islamic identity as the hijab will betoken a lack of acceptance by the rest of society.
In fact in large parts of the country outside London, we are already there.
I am not saying it is a good thing, but telling it how it is.
Doesn't look like it's going to improve the way things are going and it's unfortunate.
Both sides of the divide are to blame but refuse to accept it and would rather play the game of identity politics and disregard any opinion differing from theirs.
What will take down the west isn't globalisation or captitalism or racism or islamisation or whatever people choose to believe. It's going to be this divide between groups of individuals. People would rather spend their time calling each other names and arguing than sitting down and coming up with logical solutions to problems in their society/economy.
You see it on tsr, in the media, amongst supposedly educated politicians.
I don't even live in the west and this is an observation that is made by loads of other people like me from non western countries.
You're on the world stage. You're meant to lead and we follow. But if all we have to see are incidents of violence from both the left and right how does the world as a whole progress?
Original post by Fullofsurprises
Perhaps you didn't realise that the Nazis hugely enriched people like the Krupps and maybe you haven't heard about Goering's desire to own all the major artworks of Europe, or the tendency of senior SS officers to accumulate fortunes in Swiss banks? Ah well.
Sounds like the far left. One only just needs to look at the Kim family of North Korea for example.
Original post by StrawbAri
What will take down the west isn't globalisation or captitalism or racism or islamisation or whatever people choose to believe. It's going to be this divide between groups of individuals
What will take down the west isn't globalisation or captitalism or racism or islamisation or whatever people choose to believe. It's going to be this divide between groups of individuals
The West is in terminal decline. The barbarians are not at the gates yet, and probably won't be in either of our lifetimes, but they are coming all the same.
Civilisations are not always succeeded by superior ones, just stronger ones. So whether the Chinese era will be better is very moot.
Original post by The Epicurean
Sounds like the far left. One only just needs to look at the Kim family of North Korea for example.
It's a feature of any government that is fundamentally unaccountable - it was the same for example in the Vatican in past centuries and, yes, in the Stalinist version of Communism. It's interesting to note that the adoption of capitalism by the Chinese Communist Party has in no way impinged on the kleptomania of their ruling elite.
Original post by Akamega
It's interesting how concerned the public is over immigration, and completely ignorant of pretty much everything else. Trump, Le Pen and the forces behind Brexit all have widely different policies but are all incredibly successful because of their hard-line position on immigration. That's incredibly disturbing. Whilst the shootings in San Bernardino, Pulse in Orlando, Paris are troubling, they aren't as troubling as the imminent disaster that will take place if Trump and Le Pen fail to tackle climate change. There has been little to no discussion about Trump's economic policies beyond "They took er jerbs, we need more jerbs". Along with the rise of far-right populism there has also been championing of anti-intellectualism, primarily with Brexiters saying we shouldn't listen to every single academic/think-tank that told us Brexit was a bad idea.
If France (5th largest economy) leaves the EU, then it's over. I foresee some really dark times ahead but hopefully, people will begin to realise how utterly absurd the far-right is after this period.
If France (5th largest economy) leaves the EU, then it's over. I foresee some really dark times ahead but hopefully, people will begin to realise how utterly absurd the far-right is after this period.
If only the more normal politicians weren't terrified of tackling the immigration problem then people wouldn't have had to vote for more extreme politicians/Brexit.
If you let enough intolerant people into a country then the people are going to do something about it before they become a minority in their own country. I saw this coming a decade ago, but my prediction was for this to happen around 2050. I'm way off and completely underestimated how quickly society can change. I expect things to get much worse in the west over the next decade before it gets better.
The UK should have shut its doors a long time ago simply because of the housing crisis. If we can't build enough homes to house the current population, expand public services/transport infrastructure to match and create enough jobs for the increasing population then why the hell should we be allowing more people into the country? The reality is the country hasn't grown fast enough to support the increasing population and we probably have about 2 million people too many. It would take about a decade of house building and public service expansion with a 0 population increase for that to catch up.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not anti immigration. I believe a healthy immigration policy is important. But it absolutely has to be manageable and restricted to people who share western values.
Original post by Sarahsez
So with this triple threat to a liberal tolerant society in the West.
The biggest threat to liberal tolerant society right now is the complacency that so called 'liberals' show toward a fundamentalist, illiberal ideology that is called Islam.
Original post by Sarahsez
Do you think it would lead to deportation of mainly Muslim minorities? Civil wars? Even world war?
Do you think it would lead to deportation of mainly Muslim minorities? Civil wars? Even world war?
No, clearly anyone with a brain knows that none of this would happen. If the left keeps ignoring the problem and importing Islam then eventually, the far right will get bigger and bigger, and by far right I don't men Le Pen et al, I mean the actual far right, which could lead to civil wars and major conflicts. The current wave of rationalism toward Islam is sadly only being advocated by nationalist right wing parties, but in the long term, this will hopefully stop the Islamisation of Europe, which would lead to much bigger problems.
Original post by Fractite
The easy way out of it is to just stop migration altogether which some consider as "racist", but hey, screaming "racist" and "xenophobic" at everything landed Trump's victory.
No, the Right doesn't want to outright stop immigration, it wants to control it. It's blatantly obvious that no country in the West can control the levels of immigration right now, but the EU doesn't care.
Original post by Dodgypirate
No, the Right doesn't want to outright stop immigration, it wants to control it. It's blatantly obvious that no country in the West can control the levels of immigration right now, but the EU doesn't care.
No, the EU actively encourage illegal immigration by transporting illegal migrants from the edge of Libya's territorial waters to Sicily.
Original post by Josb
No, the EU actively encourage illegal immigration by transporting illegal migrants from the edge of Libya's territorial waters to Sicily.
I meant doesn't care about the levels of immigration because it is indeed letting thousands come in
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