Is child support for unwanted pregnancies unfair on men
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Original post by Tiger Rag
It's a risk he takes imo. If he really doesn't want to risk being a father, why sleep with her in the first place?
If a man gets no say in whether there is an abortion or not because it "her body her decision" then it should be her baby, her problem as well and the man should not have to pay.
Original post by Abdukazam
If not dying is the qualification, then do you also believe the government should not subsidize housing, education, employment? All of these things can be taken away without dying. I guess it depends on perspective, but i'd consider all of those needs. I consider needs to be anything which would otherwise stop proper functioning, when you're hungry, you can't think straight, when you're cold and homeless, you can't think straight, when you're horny, you get the picture.
If you consider it a need, where is the support mechanism?
Original post by jane matthews
If a man gets no say in whether there is an abortion or not because it "her body her decision" then it should be her baby, her problem as well and the man should not have to pay.
But he is equally responsible for the baby.
Original post by Tiger Rag
It's a risk he takes imo. If he really doesn't want to risk being a father, why sleep with her in the first place?
If the man gets no say in abortion because its "her body, her decision, her child when it suits her" then she should pay for the child herself. Why should the man pay if he has no custody or say in abortion
Original post by Tiger Rag
But he is equally responsible for the baby.
Then he should have equal say in the abortion and custody
Original post by jane matthews
If the man gets no say in abortion because its "her body, her decision, her child when it suits her" then she should pay for the child herself. Why should the man pay if he has no custody or say in abortion
It's his child too.
If he didn't want a child in the first place, he should have had sex with her.
Original post by Tiger Rag
It's his child too.
If he didn't want a child in the first place, he should have had sex with her.
If he didn't want a child in the first place, he should have had sex with her.
Then he should have equal say in abortion and custody
Original post by Tiger Rag
It's his child too.
If he didn't want a child in the first place, he should have had sex with her.
If he didn't want a child in the first place, he should have had sex with her.
If its his child too he should get equal say in abortion and custody.
Why don't you apply the same argument to women and abortion if she didn't want a child she shouldn't have sex with him.
Typical feminist, thinking women shouldn't be responsible for their own actions.
Original post by Thrift2017
We start this debate off with two presumptions. The first one, a favourite of the liberal left: abortion is moral and available. The second is that everyone needs a sex lite which is why the LGBTQQIA need to be catered for.
If a guy has a one off sexual encounter with a woman. He takes precautions but she still becomes pregnant, he asks her to have an abortion but she refuses. Should he be forced through state violence to pay child support for his entire adult life?
Is this persecution of heterosexual men? I did some research into this and read some web BBS, many women are very smug about this: he did the deed, he must therefore be responsible, even though they have full decision making power here yet the guy takes full accountability. Accountability without decision making power, it goes against all of our modern values.
I noticed women are smug until a partner of theirs, or brother or close relative or friend gets into this situation and then they panic like hell.
Isn't it time we examine this rights for men issue?
If a guy has a one off sexual encounter with a woman. He takes precautions but she still becomes pregnant, he asks her to have an abortion but she refuses. Should he be forced through state violence to pay child support for his entire adult life?
Is this persecution of heterosexual men? I did some research into this and read some web BBS, many women are very smug about this: he did the deed, he must therefore be responsible, even though they have full decision making power here yet the guy takes full accountability. Accountability without decision making power, it goes against all of our modern values.
I noticed women are smug until a partner of theirs, or brother or close relative or friend gets into this situation and then they panic like hell.
Isn't it time we examine this rights for men issue?
Really surprised at people saying he should be forced to take care of the child. A woman can abort a child without notifying the father, abort against his wishes etc. to back out of parenthood, but a man cannot do the same when the woman does want to keep the child? Where is the outcry from feminists about 'muh genda equaliteh' because this is clearly one sided - to the woman's side. The mother can back out of parenthood, so why can't the father?
I'd rather people only have children when they're in committed relationships i.e. marriage because children should be raised in a stable environment.
I'd rather people only have children when they're in committed relationships i.e. marriage because children should be raised in a stable environment.
Also, to the argument that he got her pregnant, it takes TWO to make a baby not one, so let's reverse the logic.
"She had sex which means there is a chance of pregnancy, it's her own fault. She shouldn't have had sex in the first place"
Say that at any feminist conference and the room will be more triggered than Article 50 will be this May.
"She had sex which means there is a chance of pregnancy, it's her own fault. She shouldn't have had sex in the first place"
Say that at any feminist conference and the room will be more triggered than Article 50 will be this May.
Original post by Tiger Rag
But he is equally responsible for the baby.
Not read any other of your comments so I'm not sure if you've clarified this but if you say a man is equally responsible for a baby does that mean you also believe he should have equal say in whether a child should be aborted or not?
Original post by ByronicHero
A man should be able to abdicate legal responsibility early in the pregnancy but must, at that time, also relinquish all parental rights to the would-be mother. The female then can consider the full realities of her situation and decide whether or not to have, and indeed then keep, the child.
Obviously provisions need to be made to support both parties in this regard, and we should be doing more to support all single mothers anyway, but I am yet to see a truly compelling reason why something like this wouldn't work.
Obviously provisions need to be made to support both parties in this regard, and we should be doing more to support all single mothers anyway, but I am yet to see a truly compelling reason why something like this wouldn't work.
This. I recall a similar thread where I advocated the same thing. It's funny how when it comes to women having abortions people shoot down the pro-life argument "she knew the risks", but they're all too happy to hit men with it.
(imo bad arguments in either case)
Original post by Tiger Rag
It's his child too.
If he didn't want a child in the first place, he should have had sex with her.
If he didn't want a child in the first place, he should have had sex with her.
What kind of medieval view is this? Don't have sex if you don't want a child? Protection isn't 100%.
Original post by 1 8 13 20 42
This. I recall a similar thread where I advocated the same thing. It's funny how when it comes to women having abortions people shoot down the pro-life argument "she knew the risks", but they're all too happy to hit men with it.
(imo bad arguments in either case)
(imo bad arguments in either case)
Yes, I think I recall the thread you are referring to. I remember writing quite a detailed argument for it there, one I am unwilling to replicate
Original post by Zargabaath
I assume everyone saying men should deal with the concequences of their actions then also agree that women shouldn't be allowed to give the child up for adoption
Because that's not taking responsibility for their actions, if she had sex then she should've been prepared to for a child
Because that's not taking responsibility for their actions, if she had sex then she should've been prepared to for a child
That is an interesting point. The thing is that adoption would require consent from both parties wouldn't it?
If the mother wanted to give the child up for adoption and the father didn't, would he not be able to keep custody?
So the real question is in that scenario, does and should a mother also have to provide child support for her unwanted pregnancy if the father remains in custody?
Original post by Tiger Rag
But he is equally responsible for the baby.
He's not though is he? First, let's compare the amount of control a woman has with respect to a baby coming to term and the control a man has. Ultimately when all is said and done after two adults have consented to having sex and an accidental pregnancy results the ball is entirely in the woman's court, you cannot claim that a man in that instance is anywhere near as responsible as the woman is for the birth of an unwanted child.
Secondly the really crucial point is that pregnancy is something that happens to a woman's body. With the exception of rape I would say it's pretty clear that the buck stops with her when it comes to issues of both contraception (that does include insisting that the man wears a condom), abortion etc. Which is to say that in the case of her sleeping with somebody who has no intention of being a father it should be absolutely her responsibility when it comes to whether or not she'll take contraceptives, whether or not she'll get an abortion etc.
No obviously he shouldn't. Women ultimate have complete control at the end of the day and can make the decision to have the kid.
Original post by Drewski
Is this an assumption to help your hypothetical situation, or your belief of what reality is actually like?
The statement is to avoid double standards. The liberal left are great at double standards so they need to be held to their own operating principles to hold them to account.
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The question of supporting a child is separate from that of abortion.
When a kid is born both created that child and both are responsible for it.
Abortion is tricky because it is such a conflicted thing. Personally, I think it is wrong but I don't think practically you can stop women doing what they want with their own bodies. I don't think many think abortion is great, it is more of an unease acceptance in which people think it is occasionally the least bad option.
I feel like I don't have the philosophical vocabulary to explain myself but not having an abortion isn't an action it is passive and that makes it different to sex.
Just be because something is legal to do, it doesn't imply you or your children should lose legal rights for not doing it. If euthanasia was legal, it doesn't mean that people who chose to stay alive, have to justify that to anyone. You can't say, they chose to be alive so they shouldn't be entitled to a pension.
When a kid is born both created that child and both are responsible for it.
Abortion is tricky because it is such a conflicted thing. Personally, I think it is wrong but I don't think practically you can stop women doing what they want with their own bodies. I don't think many think abortion is great, it is more of an unease acceptance in which people think it is occasionally the least bad option.
I feel like I don't have the philosophical vocabulary to explain myself but not having an abortion isn't an action it is passive and that makes it different to sex.
Just be because something is legal to do, it doesn't imply you or your children should lose legal rights for not doing it. If euthanasia was legal, it doesn't mean that people who chose to stay alive, have to justify that to anyone. You can't say, they chose to be alive so they shouldn't be entitled to a pension.
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