The Student Room Group

Swiss win EU case - Muslim girls must swim with boys

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Original post by gogojakeo
I don't see why it should be compulsory for them to attend swimming lessons. Switzerland is landlocked. They shouldn't be made to sin in their religion.


Switzerland is landlocked and full of dangerous lakes and rivers. It is a sensible public policy that all young people learn to swim in any country.
Original post by MildredMalone
Europe is facing a migrant crisis, many muslim migrants are failing to integrate into their host cultures. Europe should make every effot to faciliate muslims to become European, and leave islamic practises behind. Mixed swimming lessons are one of many things which should be enforced.


Just because they move to a Christian country doesn't mean that they should be forced to have Christian practices. Switzerland is a secular country. People should be allowed to practice whatever religion they want. If a Christian moves to Israel, they don't give up pork. Why should someone have to change their life to fit Christians when it's not expected that Christians change when they move to non-Christian majority countries? Especially when it's something as big as "I'll go to hell if I don't follow my religion."
Original post by gogojakeo
Just because they move to a Christian country doesn't mean that they should be forced to have Christian practices. Switzerland is a secular country. People should be allowed to practice whatever religion they want. If a Christian moves to Israel, they don't give up pork. Why should someone have to change their life to fit Christians when it's not expected that Christians change when they move to non-Christian majority countries? Especially when it's something as big as "I'll go to hell if I don't follow my religion."


If Christians were causing problems in non-Christian countries through refusing to integrate, you might have a point. As it is, muslims are failing to integrate, and it is causing problems.
No, they choose to attend that school and that school is secular and as such individual religious beliefs are subservient to the rules of a secular state. If they don't like it they should go to another school that is not bound by the secular constitution of the nation state.
Original post by gogojakeo
I don't see why it should be compulsory for them to attend swimming lessons. Switzerland is landlocked. They shouldn't be made to sin in their religion.




Yes , some things are compulsory just like school in here. Especially as immigrants who arrived they must know it and accept , if they do not accept the rules of the land - they should not come in the first place.

So they either directly refuse to accept the rules of the country or they require special treatment- separate pools for girls in which case I bet they'd be OK with those classes- which is imposing their beliefs on others by requiring to have such pools for children in the first place which is demanded only by muslims as it seems.
Original post by gogojakeo
Just because they move to a Christian country doesn't mean that they should be forced to have Christian practices. Switzerland is a secular country. People should be allowed to practice whatever religion they want. If a Christian moves to Israel, they don't give up pork. Why should someone have to change their life to fit Christians when it's not expected that Christians change when they move to non-Christian majority countries? Especially when it's something as big as "I'll go to hell if I don't follow my religion."


Have you been to Dubai before? Loads of countries enforce their culture and religion to a strong degree. The UK is very linient due to the fact it has a very liberalised culture. I welcome anyone who wants to start a life here, but if cultures fail to integrate and continue on this cycle for a very long time, it will create a huge division which could have impacts and consequences for the country.

How can we integrate efficiently if non-muslim boys aren't allowed to talk or play with Muslim girls?
(edited 7 years ago)
Would we discuss this is the girls' parents had requested single sex changing rooms (on basis of religious reasons) if they weren't there?
No, because we also see the benefit in single sex changing rooms and would be consider it strange to have a shared changing room. So don't see how it should be any different with the swimming classes.
Let there be girls only swimming classes - people might also want for reasons other than religious ones.
Which is what it has attempted to do: one cost-effective swimming class for all, in a system that has, no doubt, been accepted as reasonable for decades despite having limited resources and limited time in a busy school day.

The children learn to swim and simultaneously learn how to interact with their peers in a different situation, even though they may be distracted by the lack of clothing. The Moslem parents would rather their boys go on to be ignorant of what behaviour is expected of them when in proximity to female skin, and to perpetrate harassment whenever they are close to women in the future.
No, when we pay tax the money is no longer ours. It is there to run the organs of the state under its constitution and rules. We abide by these as citizens and residents of that state. If you don't like those rules then tough as this is the nature of democracy.

If they are upset then change schools and pay privately. If they are unhappy their tax contributions aren't allowing them certain individual privileges in the state they freely choose to live in, then vote for a politician who would look to change the rules or move to a different country.
I went to school in Dubai and girls and boys swam together. The Muslims didn't complain Over there. One of my friends who felt uncomfortable simply sat out the lessons.
Swimming in a seperate area to boys is not a "need".That is very much a want.And the swiss have every right to tell them where to go.
I think freedom to practice religion is fine and where the law should stop. This isn't hindering anybody's ability to practice their religion within reasonable limits - ie we don't let people beat their wives over here despite multiple holy books say it's ok. There has to be a line drawn between being a functioning member of modem society and believing in your deity ..
Reply 52
Original post by Swirly123
I went to school in Dubai and girls and boys swam together. The Muslims didn't complain Over there. One of my friends who felt uncomfortable simply sat out the lessons.
Very good point which pretty much justifies the court's decision.

Schools make rules that everyone has to adhere to. If you don't like those rules then you go elsewhere.
They also accept the right to be free of sexism.The parents do not want their daughters to swim with boys because they adhere to a backwards religion that is rife with mysogyny.Not allowing them to swim with boys violates the daughters rights to be allowed to interact with the opposite sex.The right to be free from sexism trumps the sensitivities of religous feelings I'm afraid.Or at least it should do.
Of course It would not be less immoral, I never said that. But if you decide to move to a country with certain rules you should be willing to accept / tolerate them. I believe that laws can be attempted to be challenged but if you straight away REFUSE to accept existent rules when you arrive to a country- you should never be allowed to become a resident/ citizen imo. And the point is that they did refuse to accept it completely.
And religious beliefs should never be given any more priority than a simple whim. Why on earth muslims' claims should be viewed more seriously because its Islam and not someone else's religion which may not be so popular that is requiring him to do very bizarre things for instance, those claims would be thrown away instantly.
(edited 7 years ago)
Arguably religious indoctrination is in fact abuse.You keep comparing it to an Orwellian society when in actual fact it's not Orwellian at all.It is Islam that is restrictive and Orwellian It is Islam that tells women how they should dress and who they can interact with.The ruling is simply removing one of the restrictions placed upon women by Islam.Hence it is actually granting women more freedom not less.Also parents do not own their children.Children should be able to be free from their parents religious rules.
Original post by Plantagenet Crown
Brilliant news! :woo:

The less special privileges religion is given, the better.


fewer

:spank:
Reply 57
Original post by cbreef
And our "rules" support freedom of religion. It could be argued that this infringes on that principle.


No it can't be argued that it infringes on that principle because the ECtHR ruled otherwise.
Reply 58
Original post by the bear
fewer

:spank:


Wait, was that in Game of Thrones or something...?
Original post by _Fergo
Wait, was that in Game of Thrones or something...?


Eteignez la télé allumez la cervelle :spank:

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