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Trump compromised by Russian intelligence, reports say

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Original post by highlyf
This isn't about winning and losing. If you think you've won something because dirty Drumpf is president, you're just a loser.

I don't need to try and stop dirty Drumpf, im on a forum site idiot. Dirty Drumpf the rapist seems to have already done a good job of that with his piss fetish and colluding with foreign governments.


Got any solid evidence that he raped anyone?
Original post by Fullofsurprises
Or allege that he groped them aggressively.

In the post-truth reality, the moon's a balloon and Trump's a towering figure.


Interesting how you would talk about a post-truth world when you're the one saying these allegations against Trump, for which there are no pieces of evidence to support, are something we should take seriously.
Steele's credibility gets a boost - other intelligence operatives gather to praise his credibility.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/12/intelligence-sources-vouch-credibility-donald-trump-russia-dossier-author

Dismissing this as some kind of fake news story just won't wash.
Original post by Fullofsurprises
Steele's credibility gets a boost - other intelligence operatives gather to praise his credibility.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/12/intelligence-sources-vouch-credibility-donald-trump-russia-dossier-author

Dismissing this as some kind of fake news story just won't wash.


No evidence though
Original post by Fullofsurprises
Steele's credibility gets a boost - other intelligence operatives gather to praise his credibility.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/12/intelligence-sources-vouch-credibility-donald-trump-russia-dossier-author

Dismissing this as some kind of fake news story just won't wash.


Trump's comments have distorted the issue.

This guy's credibility is only relevant to the question of whether he, himself, has fabricated the material. That answer's Trump's criticism but doesn't deal with the real issue of whether the stories are true.

What is really relevant is the credibility of his sources.

Hugh Trevor-Roper had credibility by the cart load, but it didn't make the Hitler Diaries any less fake.
Original post by nulli tertius
Trump's comments have distorted the issue.

This guy's credibility is only relevant to the question of whether he, himself, has fabricated the material. That answer's Trump's criticism but doesn't deal with the real issue of whether the stories are true.

What is really relevant is the credibility of his sources.

Hugh Trevor-Roper had credibility by the cart load, but it didn't make the Hitler Diaries any less fake.


It does seem odd how many high ranking Kremlin officials seemed willing to spill the beans on what would be the greatest Russian espionage operation of all time (to be able to control the US president) to a British private consultant, right at what would be the critical phase of said operation too.
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Original post by highlyf
Interesting how an American Trump supporter has to come to a UK student site and undermine other opinions because they're non-American. Are you really scraping the bottom of the barrel in your attempt to defend dirty Drumpf?




Life imitates art.
Original post by pol pot noodles
It does seem odd how many high ranking Kremlin officials seemed willing to spill the beans on what would be the greatest Russian espionage operation of all time (to be able to control the US president) to a British private consultant, right at what would be the critical phase of said operation too.


But was the operation ever to control the President or to undermine him?

Are the leaks part of the operation?

Is the ex-MI6 man a "useful idiot" to disseminate this true, or alternatively false, information?

Does it matter whether the information is true or false if it is not provably either?
Original post by pol pot noodles
It does seem odd how many high ranking Kremlin officials seemed willing to spill the beans on what would be the greatest Russian espionage operation of all time (to be able to control the US president) to a British private consultant, right at what would be the critical phase of said operation too.


I'm not sure the FSB are the same slick, super-effective organisation that the KGB once were. They seem much cruder and more blatant than they used to be. However, I don't dismiss Nulli's theory that this could all be a wider plan by the Kremlin to involve the US in President-Congress feuding for some years whilst (presumably) Vladimir swallows up the Baltic or something similar.
Original post by nulli tertius
But was the operation ever to control the President or to undermine him?

Are the leaks part of the operation?

Is the ex-MI6 man a "useful idiot" to disseminate this true, or alternatively false, information?

Does it matter whether the information is true or false if it is not provably either?


Given that he is evidently quite a respected operative, it seems a bit thin to call him a useful idiot. I suspect there's a lot more to this than meets the eye - parts of the story are true and parts are suggestive of FSB efforts.
Original post by Fullofsurprises
Given that he is evidently quite a respected operative, it seems a bit thin to call him a useful idiot. I suspect there's a lot more to this than meets the eye - parts of the story are true and parts are suggestive of FSB efforts.


I am posing a question, not giving an answer.

A useful idiot was originally someone who unsuspectingly aided Communism whilst believing they were advancing another cause.

Ultimately espionage organisations distinguish between intelligence that is true and that which is untrue for a variety of reasons (mistake, material created by sources for financial gain, misinformation planted by opponents) by layers of analysis.

A single private spy is no less able to gather information than a single state employed spy but unless he has access to his former employer's analysts, the private spy is having to make his own decisions as to the truth or otherwise of what he obtains.
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by nulli tertius
But was the operation ever to control the President or to undermine him?

Are the leaks part of the operation?

Is the ex-MI6 man a "useful idiot" to disseminate this true, or alternatively false, information?

Does it matter whether the information is true or false if it is not provably either?


Well this is it. It seems more likely the leaks to Christopher Steele are part of the actual plan. I was simply commenting how implausible Steele's theory is.
Original post by nulli tertius
I am posing a question, not giving an answer.

A useful idiot was originally someone who unsuspectingly aided Communism whilst believing they were advancing another cause.

Ultimately espionage organisations distinguish between intelligence that is true and that which is untrue for a variety of reasons (mistake, material created by sources for financial gain, misinformation planted by opponents) by layers of analysis.

A single private spy is no less able to gather information than a single state employed spy but unless he has access to his former employer's analysts, the private spy is having to make his own decisions as to the truth or otherwise of what he obtains.


I had understood the phrase. I was saying it was implausible in his case because he's such an obviously experienced guy, I'm sure he's better placed than most to interpret the difference between a disinformation strategy and information he has managed to expose they would have preferred remain hidden.

Of course a private sector spy is going to have limits, but one can easily imagine he has very wide contacts. That will be why the UK football people used his services on the world cup bid.

EDIT
This from this morning's Guardian:

"The individual responsible for compiling the reports – a former British MI6 officer called Christopher Steele – is highly regarded among US and UK intelligence circles and was at one point head of MI6’s Russia desk. He was described to the Guardian by a US official as consistently reliable, meticulous and well-informed, with extensive Russian contacts.
"
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by Fullofsurprises
. He was described to the Guardian by a US official as consistently reliable, meticulous and well-informed, with extensive Russian contacts.
"


Maybe that's why he's in hiding now... he failed and is ashamed?
Original post by CyclePath
Maybe that's why he's in hiding now... he failed and is ashamed?


I think his career as a covert operator may be over, so perhaps he's gone on semi-retirement long-term holiday to somewhere nice and peaceful for a secret agent, like Yemen or Syria or maybe (who would suspect?) Moscow. :teehee:

Or maybe he's afraid of the UK Parliamentary Watchdog? :lol:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/12/parliaments-intelligence-watchdog-to-scrutinise-trump-dossier
Original post by Fullofsurprises
I think his career as a covert operator may be over, so perhaps he's gone on semi-retirement long-term holiday to somewhere nice and peaceful for a secret agent, like Yemen or Syria or maybe (who would suspect?) Moscow. :teehee:

Or maybe he's afraid of the UK Parliamentary Watchdog? :lol:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/12/parliaments-intelligence-watchdog-to-scrutinise-trump-dossier


Moscows actually quite a nice place to visit. The touristy parts of it, at least!
Before the war, Ayria and Yemen would also have been good places to visit, I wish I was able to do so, before all the famous sites got smashed up
Original post by Hydeman
What could liberals possibly have to gain from a Pence presidency?


Oh I don't know... having a conventional conservative as president rather than a Russian shill?
Original post by l'etranger

I have to also ask why the same was not done to the FBI's investigation of Hillary Clinton, should that not too have been delayed until after polling had closed?


It was in FBI Director Comey's hands, that's why liberals are furious with him. He happily disclosed investigations into Clinton that were based on nothing, while blocking disclosure (to this day) of investigations (that we know exist) into Trump's Russia connections.

but if you're going to accept media reporting in the basis of unverified reports and innuendos, then you should apply that in a consistent manner to other trashy stories such as Pizzagate


False equivalence. Pizzagate is clearly ********, whereas the reason the Trump dossier was taken seriously by the US intelligence community was because of its source (a highly respected former MI6 case officer who rose high in the Secret Intelligence Service and is considered a credible figure)

you're still failing to address the issue that many people in the West do not feel threatened by Russia or Russian actions


It's pretty obvious why. They identify with Russia more than they identify with the West, just as in the Cold War there were commies who identified more with the Soviet Union than they did with the West.

This is why I say to you that Neo-Conservatism is dead, the age of the right-leaning Westerner who thinks NATO has this special position of moral superiority


So you don't think Western civilisation is clearly morally superior to all others?
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by CyclePath
Maybe that's why he's in hiding now... he failed and is ashamed?


He's in hiding now because he knows that if he's right, the Russian intelligence services will kill him if they have a shot.

The difference between the miserable right and the sensible left is that out of partisan tribalism, you reject these allegations without knowing their veracity, and in so doing you're willing to take the risk that Trump is a Russian agent to gratify your own pathetic need not to admit you might be wrong.

We are not saying the allegations are true, but that they are so serious, have such profound implications if true, that they must be investigated.

Your bad faith is demonstrated by your opposition to such a course.
Original post by AlexanderHam
Oh I don't know... having a conventional conservative as president rather than a Russian shill?


Trump is an American. He's not Russian smh

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