Oxford academic warns of Brexit disaster.

Fitt said a hard Brexit "would probably be the biggest disaster for the university sector in many years."

Frankly, that is crap.

If you make widgets, a hard Brexit means that you have no impact on the standards the EU sets for widgets and EU importers of UK widgets will have to pay input duties on those widgets. If UK widget production is subsidised by the UK government, the EU may impose anti-dumping duties. British widget producers may struggle to recruit enough staff without unskilled labour from the EU.

But none of that relates across to higher education.

Three things matter to HE. One is that the qualifications offered in the UK continue to be recognised within the EU. The others are related. They are participation in EU funded research projects and replacing lost EU funding None of these are likely to be affected by the hardness or softness of Brexit.

UK immigration controls will have a greater effect on university kitchens and halls of residence than they will have on university labs.

Brookes people saying they're from Oxford is like the most normal thing in the world, it's actually or surprising when they don't do it.

I've heard it all. "I studied in Oxford" "Just finished uni in Oxford" "Where did I go to university? Oxford" "In Oxford, we did..."

But he was asked about a hard Brexit. These are essentially concerns about a Brexit at all, or about the willingness of the UK government to fund UK research.

The hardness or softness of Brexit are questions about the markets in goods, services and labour.

Universities don't sell goods; there is a more or less worldwide free market in education services (certainly there are no tariff barriers) and it is improbable that any restrictions on the movement of labour will significantly impact academics.

Don't see the harm. It's rather sweet actually.

This is the image that springs to mind.

If he's from oxford uni he's an elitist so I don't care, if he's from Brooke's he's got no position and holds an educated but still debatable view like most people so my point is, whoever it is. It means nothing

He is not an Oxford academic he works at Brooke's.

Not that it matters what he thinks one way or the other.

So essentially, no one can have an opinion that means anything?


... Why does it not matter what he thinks? As students, we largely rely on the theories and arguments presented by academics in our research. When we conceive real life situations, such as Brexit, surely it becomes ever-more important to do this?

So essentially, no one can have an opinion that means anything?


... Why does it not matter what he thinks? As students, we largely rely on the theories and arguments presented by academics in our research. When we conceive real life situations, such as Brexit, surely it becomes ever-more important to do this?

I agree that the hard/soft issue is a bit irrelevant and yes, I was speaking to Brexit generally, which as I said (and numerous academics and research people will be happy to confirm) is extremely threatening to the whole sector.

So essentially, no one can have an opinion that means anything?


... Why does it not matter what he thinks? As students, we largely rely on the theories and arguments presented by academics in our research. When we conceive real life situations, such as Brexit, surely it becomes ever-more important to do this?

This whole business of seeing Brexit as "threatening" is the problem. A big problem.

Academe is a cosseted, inward looking world resistant to change. I get that. It is dominated by liberals who will have voted Remain. I get that. It is a special interest group fighting for its share of the financial pie. I get that too.

But it is just making a fool of itself with this hysterical campaign against Brexit itself. The people have voted, we live in a democracy, and the university sector needs to get over itself, understand that it isn't the nation but just a tiny part of it. And get on with lobbying for funds in the post Brexit UK.

The farmers have a much more uncertain future post Brexit. Agricultural subsidies make university grants look like ants compared to an elephant. But you don't see farmers whinging like this. Why?
Most of the voted Leave.

That is ALL this is. People who voted Remain not accepting the decision of the wider country. It is getting VERY tiresome indeed.

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=/amp/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/01/11/eu-has-lose-hard-brexit-uk-mark-carney-says/amp/&ved=0ahUKEwi-xZ7u8LzRAhUBDCwKHT7DCQcQFgguMAQ&usg=AFQjCNFlwMoz0GQIXRsByPmDnfBCIWskyA&sig2=XxrqWaebMJ2IZKvo2bPtVQ

On the other hand, the Governor of the Bank of England has now come out & said the EU will be economical worst off than the UK if a "hard" Brexit happens.

You're obsessed with what you imagine to be the position of 'liberals' (whatever you think they are) in academia. For a start off, there are many in the centre and on the right working in these university jobs, so it is by no means the monochrome world of Chomsky-eating bearded anarchists you apparently imagine. Also, I accept the point that farmers will be affected but I think they also fall into the category of a sector soothed by government promises (which are worthless when analysed) and not yet facing the real hardship (which will only emerge when Brexit goes through to reality), whereas many academics are smart enough (a) not to take a Tory government or any British government at its word and (b) to be able to read the runes more accurately.

Incidentally, if you visit the agricultural press websites you will see huge concerns starting to emerge about subsidy removal and the ability and commitment of HMG to replacing it in full.

You're obsessed with what you imagine to be the position of 'liberals' (whatever you think they are) in academia. For a start off, there are many in the centre and on the right working in these university jobs, so it is by no means the monochrome world of Chomsky-eating bearded anarchists you apparently imagine.

Also, I accept the point that farmers will be affected but I think they also fall into the category of a sector soothed by government promises (which are worthless when analysed) and not yet facing the real hardship (which will only emerge when Brexit goes through to reality), whereas many academics are smart enough (a) not to take a Tory government or any British government at its word and (b) to be able to read the runes more accurately.

Incidentally, if you visit the agricultural press websites you will see huge concerns starting to emerge about subsidy removal and the ability and commitment of HMG to replacing it in full.

I don't know about being obsessed, but yes I do think that academia leans to the left. Others reading this thread can decide for themselves whether they agree. But let's concede your point for the sake of argument, and say it isn't.

I put it to you that compared to the wider population at large, academics were disproportionately Remain voters. Do you dispute this?



If you truly think that farmers are less hard bitten, cynical and preternaturally suspicious of all governments including Tory ones, I can only think you have never met one.

The NFU is the one of the most powerful and feared lobbies in the whole country. They brought down one Tory Minister (Edwina Currie) in less than a week. If they wanted to campaign against Brexit, believe me it would have force and power. The University lobby are children by comparison, frankly.

But farmers, despite all the money, hate the EU. They loathe it. It says something that an organisation which distributes such largesse can be so despised by so many of its recipients. They were as disproportionately Leave, as Academics were Remain.

And that is why the NFU is the dog that hasn't barked.

Farmers are traditionally Tory, so that's got something to do with it. Also a lot of the subsidies go to landowners rather than farmers and those things aren't always the same thing, so that has something to do with it too. However, I think most likely it is the case that farmers simply trust a Tory government and deeply pro-farming-interests system to replace the subsidies when they get axed. The results will actually be terrible for many farmers, but time will tell. Lemmings really can vote for more cliff edges.

Should they not say anything just so astutehirstute doesn't have to be tired of people speaking out? Lol.

Look at the electoral map. Do you see all those big blue constituencies, all over England? The Tories will look after the farming lobby because that is what Tory Governments always do. And there won't be a Labour Government for many many years. If ever again.

Farmers voted with their hearts, but they are tough, shrewd, unsentimental folk. They voted having made the calculation that their financial interests will be protected. And my money says it will be, not because the Tories look after their own, or care about farmers, but because they are frightened of them.

Academics not so much. Which is why my advice to all the hysterical Vice Chancellors of second rate Universities is - it might be wise to pipe down.

A period of silence on your part would both be welcome, and in your own best interests.

All due respect to farmers, but universities contribute far more to the UK economy than farming, not least to the sort of technical and scientific progress that we need to remain viable as an economy.

This kind of warped thinking illustrates why people like UKIP are unfit for government