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Hard brexit here we come!

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Original post by Plagioclase
Little-Englanders can have their country back whilst the rest of the world leaves them behind. I've never been so relieved to have dual-citizenship.


Ooo which other EU country are you a citizen of?
Yes we're finally leaving, very excited to hear this
Original post by shawn_o1
The UK will not become Zimbabwe.


Erm?
Original post by Davij038
Better leave the UN and its undemocratic UDHR too.


the UN isn't sovereign over us like the EU technically is though; we are in it for our own interests and clearly our interests are not threatened by our loose association with other UN members. our interests within the EU however are obviously not being advanced. so there's another difference.
Reply 64
Original post by JamesN88
Mate how are you still clinging to that pipedream about more funds for the NHS?

It ain't happening.
The NHS doesn't need more funds as such. It needs less managers and more staff nurses. It also needs to be made more financially aware when it comes down to non-EU patients particularly those who come here specifically to use our hospital facilities. This is a prime example - http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/nhs-left-unpaid-bill-350000-9631294

What is worrying is that information received from the NHS shows that 3066 mothers flew into the UK specifically to have babies in 2015/16. That's just babies. Just think how many others flew into the UK for operations that they should have paid for.

This is why there are waiting lists. This is why the NHS is in a mess.
Original post by midnightice
No, it wouldn't. Aside from services, our trading arrangements are near enough identical and as free as that of CETA and the Swiss EFTA deal. You underestimate, or deliberately forget, that we have substantial bargaining chips to secure border control whilst mimicking a CETA+ arrangement, most prominently the City of London. Watch the Eurozone obliterate itself if it doesn't secure access to it.


I don't know what your point is. As of now, we are a 'member of' the single market. Ergo, 'member of' accurately describes our relationship to the single market. The far vaguer 'access to' is descriptively useless.


By the way, Liechtenstein are full members of the single market (EEA) but do not participate in FoM, so your argument about the 'fundamental principal' is rubbish, just dogmatic rhetoric. Declining a comprehensive FTA agreement with their most important export market over fake 'principals' would be ridiculous. The EU doesn't have to do this out of 'friendliness', it has to do it out of sheer survival instinct.


Not quite true. The EEA has provisions to allow restriction of movement in extreme cases, and Liechtenstein invokes those provisions with the permission of the EEA Council. Believing the EU would allow us to do the same is nothing but wishful thinking and, in any case, irrelevant if we are to be revoking our membership of the single market.
The people who voted remain, are they really as smart or intellectual as they claim ?. Yeah polls found that those who voted remain had higher qualifications i.e degrees. But degrees are just pieces of paper they don't really mean ****, some of the most successful people have no degrees or qualifications. The say Leavers are dumb and leaving the EU would have bad consequences, but what if their wrong what if it's the best decision Britain ever makes. How can they possibly know how it will affect us, these so called experts who claimed the majority would vote remain. Unless the impacts and affects are blatantly obvious we can't really judge a political decision like this until at least a few years.

We just have to sit back and wait and see ( Personally i think the EU will collapse and Britain for a short time will be worse off, but we will recover and grow).
Right. So we want to end free movement of goods and labour but maintain the Common Travel Area with the Republic of Ireland (+ crown dependencies).

So anyone getting off a Paris-Dublin flight with a French passport can enter and mill about Ireland as they please - but can't cross the open and unpoliced border, and can't board an unpoliced domestic flight between NI and Great Britain. Is it expected that EU migrants abide by these rules out of their own free will?

Seriously, I can't for a second imagine how it's going to be enforced. A hard border? Republicans in NI will have a field day. Passport checks on arrival in Great Britain for flights originating in NI? Unionists will have a field day. UK passport checks in Ireland? Farcical. The recent politico-cultural rhetoric has got us thicker-skinned and less prone to being "offended", but let's not forget that people are still killing each other over the peace process.
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by rockrunride
Right. So we want to end free movement of goods and labour but maintain the Common Travel Area with the Republic of Ireland (+ crown dependencies).

So anyone getting off a Paris-Dublin flight with a French passport can enter and mill about Ireland as they please - but can't cross the open and unpoliced border, and can't board an unpoliced domestic flight between NI and Great Britain. Is it expected that EU migrants abide by these rules out of their own free will?

Seriously, I can't for a second imagine how it's going to be enforced. A hard border? Republicans in NI will have a field day. Passport checks on arrival in Great Britain for flights originating in NI? Unionists will have a field day. UK passport checks in Ireland? Farcical. The recent politico-cultural rhetoric has got us thicker-skinned and less prone to being "offended", but let's not forget that people are still killing each other over the peace process.


It could end up a smugglers paradise as well if tariffs get imposed between the UK and EU. Realistically there'll have to be a hard border somewhere if this happens. With the best will in the world I think that just asking people not to dodge import duties and hoping they don't is a bit optimistic.
Original post by TitanicTeutonicPhil

You know, we don't mind. Because we are Europeans, members of the same community, and help our brothers out. If I were paying taxes in Germany I wouldn't mind some of my tax Euros going to poorer nations. And that's the difference between us and you lot - empathy, solidarity, good-will, you lack all of those things. And that's why it's good you're out and will suffer badly.


Wow.

This level of Anglophobia is simply unacceptable in 2017.
Original post by Snufkin
Ooo which other EU country are you a citizen of?


Germany :smile:
Original post by Plagioclase
Germany :smile:


Interesting! German parent? Have you always been a German citizen or did you apply for it after Brexit?
Original post by Snufkin
Interesting! German parent? Have you always been a German citizen or did you apply for it after Brexit?


Yes. I've always had German citizenship but I hadn't renewed my German passport for years. First thing I did after the referendum results were announced was to book an appointment at the embassy!
This isn't really news, it's been the message for a little while now, but did you not get the memo, it isn't hard brexit anymore, it's clean brexit

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Original post by TitanicTeutonicPhil
Oh, do I see a softening in your stance there? Weren't you super convinced until a few months ago that Brexit was the best thing that ever happened to your country? Reality setting in?



You know, we don't mind. Because we are Europeans, members of the same community, and help our brothers out. If I were paying taxes in Germany I wouldn't mind some of my tax Euros going to poorer nations. And that's the difference between us and you lot - empathy, solidarity, good-will, you lack all of those things. And that's why it's good you're out and will suffer badly.


Yes you do help your brothers. They didn't want to take in all those Muslims, so you get to have them all! Marvellous.

Wait till later this year and you get to take another million!

Can you say Freedom of Movement? Can you say, Common European Border?

Can you say Wilkommen another million Muslim (not rapey at all) men? :biggrin:
Original post by Plagioclase
Yes. I've always had German citizenship but I hadn't renewed my German passport for years. First thing I did after the referendum results were announced was to book an appointment at the embassy!


Aw, you're lucky. I am a dual UK-Irish citizen but I'm paranoid Ireland will one day leave the EU too. A German passport is the gold standard, and it's so pretty. :daydreaming:
Original post by TitanicTeutonicPhil
Oh my, you lot will suffer so baaaaad... tax haven? More like banana republic.


Is that like the severe suffering of the last 6 months?

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Original post by Snufkin
Aw, you're lucky. I am a dual UK-Irish citizen but I'm paranoid Ireland will one day leave the EU too. A German passport is the gold standard, and it's so pretty. :daydreaming:


Well you're certainly in a better position than most! Although I thought you were Norwegian!
Original post by Plagioclase
You want to know how it affects me? Well for starters, Brexit is going to be absolutely crippling for scientific research into UK, the career I want to go into. This country's total lack of interest in helping young people makes my future prospects depressing enough without giving my chosen career a metaphorical kick in the groin. There are other countries in the world that have genuine respect for young people and those involved in research.

I've listened to democracy in this country. This country's democratic consensus appears to be one of anti-intellectualism where somebody's uninformed opinion is just as valued as the views of the experts, who have been censored by being branded as the 'filthy elite', whilst the genuine elite are continuously being given more and more power. It's too stupid for me, I've had enough - this referendum is just the tip of the iceberg. I feel absolutely no connection to the prevailing xenophobic views in this country. You can ridicule it as much as you want, but I don't feel welcome here and my European parent who has lived here for decades certainly doesn't.

I'm not trying to overturn democracy. I'm saying that the democratic decision is utterly moronic and I don't want to have to suffer just because the British population appears to have forgotten the purpose of the organ between their ears.

Could you please give me one reason why I shouldn't leave given that my future prospects would be significantly better elsewhere?


No. Don't let the door hit you on the ass as you walk out, mind. Close it carefully.
Original post by Plagioclase
Well you're certainly in a better position than most! Although I thought you were Norwegian!


:gasp: You did? O to be Norwegian... I wish. :moon: Why did you think that?

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