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Does a strict border control (e.g. after Brexit) promote racism and/or xenophobia?

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They certainly aren't the majority either.
Original post by demaistre
If inhabitant of x African country wants to move to y Western nation and y doesn't want them, that is y's choice. X can choose to go to another nation that wants x, y shouldn't be forced to accept x.


But does the fact that y doesn't want x mean y is racist or xenophobic? Why wouldn't you want x to come to your country? I think in the case of the UK a big part of the population that does not want immigrants feel this way because either they believe in stereotypes (e.g. immigrants are thieves), so there are underlying racist motives, or because they are afraid immigrants will "steal their jobs", which could be a form of xenophobia.
No, the reverse is true. When no border controls means tonnes of foreigners arrive rapidly and problems are caused by that (e.g. unaffordable housing or no integration) and they had no say in this, people turn to racism
Original post by thecsstudent
But does the fact that y doesn't want x mean y is racist or xenophobic? Why wouldn't you want x to come to your country? I think in the case of the UK a big part of the population that does not want immigrants feel this way because either they believe in stereotypes (e.g. immigrants are thieves), so there are underlying racist motives, or because they are afraid immigrants will "steal their jobs", which could be a form of xenophobia.


It's irrelevant what the reason is it isn't x's nation, and most anti immigrant people don't hate immigrants or foreigners, they simply believe their nation and people should be put first in all things. Does you putting your own family first mean you hate every other family? No of course it doesn't.
The people own the country.
I have the right and do demand that others use their property for the good of the nation, no man is an island. Hiring cheap foreign workers undercutting British wages and then constantly going out and saying 'British workers are lazy' is not for the good of the nation.
Original post by demaistre
It's irrelevant what the reason is it isn't x's nation, and most anti immigrant people don't hate immigrants or foreigners, they simply believe their nation and people should be put first in all things. Does you putting your own family first mean you hate every other family? No of course it doesn't.


Defining "your people" in such a strict sense, as in the people you were born in the same country with to me isn't right. What does it mean that you were born in the same country? And why would you care only for the people of your own country and not for people in general? Maybe because you care that it serves your own interests instead of the country's as a whole.
Why can't I? Why does some upper class toff making bank from under cutting British wages get to decide it?

Taxation is theft too am I right my Ancap friend?

Britain is not a middle eastern Islamic country comparing the two is nonsense.
Original post by thecsstudent
Defining "your people" in such a strict sense, as in the people you were born in the same country with to me isn't right. What does it mean that you were born in the same country? And why would you care only for the people of your own country and not for people in general? Maybe because you care that it serves your own interests instead of the country's as a whole.


What other sense would I define it in? Some naive sense of common humanity maybe?
Born in the same country, bound by blood, culture, religion etc etc, I define it pretty much the same way the majority of people throughout history have when talking about a nation.
'Maybe because you care that it serves your own interests instead of the country's as a whole.'
Couldn't I make this exact same point about your position?
Original post by demaistre
It's irrelevant what the reason is it isn't x's nation, and most anti immigrant people don't hate immigrants or foreigners, they simply believe their nation and people should be put first in all things. Does you putting your own family first mean you hate every other family? No of course it doesn't.


Exactly, I dont really care if an immigrant is black or white or whatever, if he can fit in with the culture provide something we need and we can fit them in with housing and infrastructure.
Original post by thecsstudent
Defining "your people" in such a strict sense, as in the people you were born in the same country with to me isn't right. What does it mean that you were born in the same country? And why would you care only for the people of your own country and not for people in general? Maybe because you care that it serves your own interests instead of the country's as a whole.


Because EVERY country has a duty to serve its people over other people, If I went to live in poland and I was told that I needed to bring skills into the country and was expected to have a job within X months and had to be able to support myself I would be perfectly fine with that
Original post by AperfectBalance
Because EVERY country has a duty to serve its people over other people, If I went to live in poland and I was told that I needed to bring skills into the country and was expected to have a job within X months and had to be able to support myself I would be perfectly fine with that


Same if I wanted to move to....Japan for example would I complain the Japanese government was putting natives first? No of course not.
ITT: People afraid of Poles
Original post by KardasDragon
ITT: People afraid of Poles


As long as you don't lick them when they are cold or walk into them while texting I think you have no reason to be afraid.
Original post by demaistre
What other sense would I define it in? Some naive sense of common humanity maybe?
Born in the same country, bound by blood, culture, religion etc etc, I define it pretty much the same way the majority of people throughout history have when talking about a nation.
'Maybe because you care that it serves your own interests instead of the country's as a whole.'
Couldn't I make this exact same point about your position?


You are mixing up nation with country. Nowadays countries and nations are not the same thing. There's British people that live in other countries. They belong to the British nation because they have common history, culture and tradition but not the British country. So when talking about a country you can't speak about being bound by blood and culture necessarily. That's why "my people" and "other people" are terms that do not mean much.
Reply 54
Not everyone can be scientists or engineers. This jobs require intelligence and compassion and the main purpose for it is to explore the world around us, not prevent engineers and their families from starving.
Now, almost anyone can work in lidl or be a cleaner. These jobs usually aren't paid well and, in my opinion, exist to support those who for various reasons can't get a high tech job like engineering. For most of these people its a matter of having a house and food.
My point being, there is a distinction between the jobs you listed and the jobs that are usually in question when someone says 'foreigners steal our jobs'

Original post by thecsstudent
But my point is why should British citizens be prioritised? The country in which someone is born by luck shouldn't affect the chances they have to get a job if they are willing to move somewhere else.
I'm not saying countries shouldn't have borders I'm just saying the role of the borders should not be to keep law abiding people out of a country.


You shouldn't also be forced to move out of your country, change your friends, environment and culture.
Also, how do you know who is a 'law abiding person' and who is a scumbag who wants to live on benefits?
Original post by demaistre
As long as you don't lick them when they are cold or walk into them while texting I think you have no reason to be afraid.


That is actually sort of my point. Polish people aren't harming British society. What everyone seems to be afraid of are Africans and Arabs.

Britain is free to set up restrictions on non-EU immigration however it wants. Plenty of East European countries have already done so.

Leaving the EU won't alleviate any of the problems in Britain. The whole "immigrants are taking our jobs" rhetoric is *******s. Some industries are just dead and will remain dead, while others are too "menial" in order for Brits to take up. Most people who pick fruit in England are Poles because Brits don't want to do it themselves.
Original post by thecsstudent
But does the fact that y doesn't want x mean y is racist or xenophobic? Why wouldn't you want x to come to your country? I think in the case of the UK a big part of the population that does not want immigrants feel this way because either they believe in stereotypes (e.g. immigrants are thieves), so there are underlying racist motives, or because they are afraid immigrants will "steal their jobs", which could be a form of xenophobia.


Let's take this down to a micro-level.

Do you open your own home up to anyone who might come in? If not, why do you have a greater right to your home than anyone else. Shouldn't everyone have a right to every home? I'm not saying there shouldn't be doors, but that doors should have a different purpose than they do now.


Once you have an answer to that which you feel isn't racist, you will have the exact same answer to why immigration should be controlled that isn't racist.
Original post by demaistre
Same if I wanted to move to....Japan for example would I complain the Japanese government was putting natives first? No of course not.


A lot of people dont seem to get this and think that we want britain to have harsh immigration control, I want all countries to have it
Original post by thecsstudent
You are mixing up nation with country. Nowadays countries and nations are not the same thing. There's British people that live in other countries. They belong to the British nation because they have common history, culture and tradition but not the British country. So when talking about a country you can't speak about being bound by blood and culture necessarily. That's why "my people" and "other people" are terms that do not mean much.


Not at all unless you're a country like the US or Brazil country and nation are pretty much the same thing.
My people is a no more a meaningless term than 'my family' is, and with this comment you show you have no clue why my side of the argument think as they do.
Original post by AperfectBalance
A lot of people dont seem to get this and think that we want britain to have harsh immigration control, I want all countries to have it


The funniest reply I get to this attitude is people going 'but what about Spain Brits don't assimilate over there ha got you' and I agree all countries should have it.

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