Nicola Sturegon says second referendum is closer for Scotland

Will it happen this time for Scotland? Could it be a different outcome?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-38642213

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Reply 1

ManiaMuse

Well currently they don't meet all of the criteria for a new country joining the EU so good luck to them on their own as well...

Reply 2

Sephiroth

All hot air.

Sturgeon whines about the UK leaving the EU single market and calls it economically catastrophic then wants to leave the UK single market with independence - a country where 64% of its exports go.

Scotland will be in ruins if they leave. They won't be allowed to join the EU as Spain will veto it and the rest of the UK won't want to give them a free trade deal either.

The thing is if a vote does happen it is likely to be a win for leavers as anti establishment politics is the new norm. I am just glad I live in England and don't have to worry about this.

But back to my first point - it won't happen. Democracy isn't constantly rerunning a vote until you get what you want and what Sturgeon is suggesting is anti democratic. The UK government won't allow it.

Reply 3

MeYou2Night

Okay bye Nicola. Nice knowing you..not

At least I won't have to listen to her moan and whinge every two minutes. I have Jeremy Corbyn for that.

Anyway, Spain will veto any application as Scotland will have to rejoin the EU no matter what (this was made clear in 2014 at the first referendum).So whatever Nicola says, Scotland will no longer be a member of the EU and maybe even EEC if Spain gets its way.

She is delusional.

Empty threats, she knows she still can't win.

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Reply 6

username1148663

Original post by Rock Fan

Will it happen this time for Scotland? Could it be a different outcome?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-38642213

They need Westminster permission and it will be a minimum of 20 years before they get that

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Reply 7

pol pot noodles

Original post by Sephiroth

Sturgeon whines about the UK leaving the EU single market and calls it economically catastrophic then wants to leave the UK single market with independence - a country where 64% of its exports go.

I wonder if anyone has put this point to her. I'd be interested to see how she tries to weasel out of that hole. She claims single market membership is vital to protect Scotland's economy, but if the UK leaves the EU without a trade deal then like you say Scotland is better off staying in the UK, if the UK leaves the EU with a trade deal then the Scottish economy is protected and there's nothing to moan about.

Reply 8

Omarthefirst

Leaving the EU is going to ruin the UK and its economy so I'm not surprised really.

Reply 9

Jammy Duel

Original post by Omarthefirst

Leaving the EU is going to ruin the UK and its economy so I'm not surprised really.

You mean like the recession now entering its third quarter?

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Reply 10

ATW1

Keep talking ginger dwarf from the north.

Reply 11

L i b

Nicola Sturgeon, and Alex Salmond before her, have been saying for years that every high-profile action taken by the UK Government will bring Scottish independence closer. Salmond was wrong before, and she's wrong now. People simply don't have the level of attachment to the EU that she claims to have - and she is alienating the third of SNP voters who voted for Brexit.

Original post by pol pot noodles

It is a fair point. So in response in Scotland, we have seen elected MPs and MSPs try to rubbish the Scottish Governments own statistics on this point, with many suggesting that it represents goods going to Europe through ports in England. This is completely false, as it is based on a broad survey of export destinations: if anything, it is probably more likely to underestimate the level of trade with the rest of the UK. It's been embarrassing, but the SNP has a great deal of form on this sort of thing.

The other line that has emerged is to say that the EU market is eight times the size of the rest-of-the-UK market. Which, in population terms, is broadly true. However that completely ignores that we trade - as suggested - four times as much with the rest of the UK as with the other 27 EU member-states combined.

Reply 12

MildredMalone

Why does she think running Scotland makes one a world leader ... and if it did, why would she think SHE'S qualified for the role?

Reply 13

tomywomy

The Scottish already had an independence vote and decided to stay, when do the English, welsh and northern Irish get to vote whether we want to keep scotland

Reply 14

viffer

Original post by Omarthefirst

Leaving the EU is going to ruin the UK and its economy so I'm not surprised really.

'We' import considerably more from 'them' than the other way round. I'm therefore not sure the member companies of EU plc will be happy with the noses-out-of-joint leaders of the other 27 wanting to pull up the drawbridge to punish the UK for its insolence. Unelected bureacrats who support the USofE vision will have to relent (aka compromise) at some point. Time will tell of course but I'm not sure it'll be anywhere near as bad as the pessimists predict.

Scotland on the other hand will be well and truly f'd if it goes it alone outside the UK. Anyone can spend beyond their means for so long but eventually the merde hits the ventilateur.

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 15

Science_Girl

What I would like to know is: why is EVERYONE on here against this?? For any 'remain' supporters this is the ONLY way to stay in the EU and maybe it wouldn't be so bad. I supported independence last time and would do so again. I'm not saying it would be easy, but I think it would be worth it.

Reply 16

Drewski

Original post by Science_Girl

For any 'remain' supporters this is the ONLY way to stay in the EU and maybe it wouldn't be so bad

It's not though.

You wouldn't be in the EU, you'd need to apply to become an EU member state in your own right, a process which could take a decade and is likely to be vetoed by Spain anyway.
So, because you don't have the approval of all 27 member nations, you don't get in.

You've then got a £15bn deficit in your budget with no way of recouping it without substantially raising taxes. Oil isn't worth anything like what it used to be, so that deficit is likely even bigger in the coming years.

You're no longer affiliated with the nation that accounts for ~70% of your trade, so you need to arrange a trade deal with them, something which could take a couple of years at best.

Through the majority in the parliament you effectively become a one party state, something which clearly has never gone wrong before...

And you wonder why people don't think it's a good idea?

Reply 17

Rakas21

Original post by Rock Fan

Will it happen this time for Scotland? Could it be a different outcome?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-38642213

Sturgeon won't call a second referendum unless polling indicates that she will win, especially because losing a second referendum in the face of Brexit would be disastrous for the SNP.

Scotland will leave the EU with the UK as the Snats shout about it. Their best chance for independence is if the Remoaners are correct and we become stagnant.

Reply 18

L i b

Original post by Science_Girl

That's absolute piffle. Had Scotland become an independent state in March 2016 as the SNP proposed, it would have been immediately outside of the EU. Had it wished to apply, sure it could have given it a go - but it would be an accession state. I think losing the numerous benefits the UK has in the EU - our rebate, our cast-iron opt-out on the single currency and so on - would've made joining the EU as a new country a rather unappealing concept.

There's the struggle here. You're asking people to leave a more inclusive, democratic union where Scotland benefits from fiscal sharing from other parts of the country, where we have three centuries of history and where we do the vast majority of our trading. For what? To join a less democratic, more distant and less desirable union with a range of countries we have far less in common with, where we would have to be a net financial contributor. That's hardly going to win votes.

I was a strong Remain voter. I like the European ideal, but have grave questions over its direction and some of the fundamentals like the Euro. I think the lack of transparency and blunt refusal of the European institutions to countenance differentiation or flexibility is making it weak and brittle. Despite that, I still support it. Yet if anyone asked which union is the most important for Scotland, the answer is blindingly obvious: the UK.

Reply 19

L i b

Original post by Rakas21

Sturgeon won't call a second referendum unless polling indicates that she will win, especially because losing a second referendum in the face of Brexit would be disastrous for the SNP.

While that might be the sensible proposition, I suppose we should never write-off the idea of blunt stupidity. Nicola Sturgeon has already been bloody silly in painting herself into a corner on the issue: she's marched her supporters up a hill to such an extent that not delivering a second referendum - even one that she thinks she is destined to lose and would destroy her career - may well seem the tougher option.