Nicola Sturegon says second referendum is closer for Scotland

All hot air.

Sturgeon whines about the UK leaving the EU single market and calls it economically catastrophic then wants to leave the UK single market with independence - a country where 64% of its exports go.

Scotland will be in ruins if they leave. They won't be allowed to join the EU as Spain will veto it and the rest of the UK won't want to give them a free trade deal either.

The thing is if a vote does happen it is likely to be a win for leavers as anti establishment politics is the new norm. I am just glad I live in England and don't have to worry about this.

But back to my first point - it won't happen. Democracy isn't constantly rerunning a vote until you get what you want and what Sturgeon is suggesting is anti democratic. The UK government won't allow it.

It's not though.

You wouldn't be in the EU, you'd need to apply to become an EU member state in your own right, a process which could take a decade and is likely to be vetoed by Spain anyway.
So, because you don't have the approval of all 27 member nations, you don't get in.

You've then got a £15bn deficit in your budget with no way of recouping it without substantially raising taxes. Oil isn't worth anything like what it used to be, so that deficit is likely even bigger in the coming years.

You're no longer affiliated with the nation that accounts for ~70% of your trade, so you need to arrange a trade deal with them, something which could take a couple of years at best.

Through the majority in the parliament you effectively become a one party state, something which clearly has never gone wrong before...


And you wonder why people don't think it's a good idea?

I'm not at all familiar with the ins and outs of this. Why would Spain veto any future Scottish membership of the EU?

Nail, head, hit. As a Scot, the Nats naive romanticism about 'freedom' embarrasses me.

Not wanting anything that might set a precedence over Catalan independence

Really? Only this year the majority of the UK voted for freedom.

What's wrong with freedom? How much of devolution would you roll back?

That's absolute piffle. Had Scotland become an independent state in March 2016 as the SNP proposed, it would have been immediately outside of the EU. Had it wished to apply, sure it could have given it a go - but it would be an accession state. I think losing the numerous benefits the UK has in the EU - our rebate, our cast-iron opt-out on the single currency and so on - would've made joining the EU as a new country a rather unappealing concept.

There's the struggle here. You're asking people to leave a more inclusive, democratic union where Scotland benefits from fiscal sharing from other parts of the country, where we have three centuries of history and where we do the vast majority of our trading. For what? To join a less democratic, more distant and less desirable union with a range of countries we have far less in common with, where we would have to be a net financial contributor. That's hardly going to win votes.

I was a strong Remain voter. I like the European ideal, but have grave questions over its direction and some of the fundamentals like the Euro. I think the lack of transparency and blunt refusal of the European institutions to countenance differentiation or flexibility is making it weak and brittle. Despite that, I still support it. Yet if anyone asked which union is the most important for Scotland, the answer is blindingly obvious: the UK.

I have no inherent issue with devolution of powers over things. However, it seems to whoosh over some people's heads that they want to sever ties with a Westminster Government they didn't vote for but wish to retain/obtain ties with a Bruxelles Government they cannot vote for. Way to go!

Basically it comes down to whether you want to be part of a union.

Naturally you have your view, but taking exactly the same points you can argue for leave. Basically it comes down to whether you want to be part of a union.

You call out democracy, but it's very unclear how the UK is more democratic than the EU. This isn't a balanced union, England has 80% of the voting rights.

I'm not entirely sure how you can argue currency union with the rUK is better than the Euro. Personally my view would be for the Scottish pound so we have monetary policy set for Scotland.

Fiscal sharing causes arguments both sides of the border depending who is winning at the time.

Sure, but a free Scotland could choose. Currently we can't. There's no knowing if an independent Scotland would apply to join the EU.

Not Scotland's decision anyway. They can and I think would apply, but (imho) they have as much chance of getting in as Morag fae <enter Scottish town of choice> has of becoming a member of Muirfield golf club. i.e. Hee haw buggar aw

'A' union? See my previous comment about governance by Westminster and Brussels

Nicola Sturgeon should pipe down and accept that Scotland voted to be part of the UK and are now part of the UK. Should individual cities now start leaving England because their votes contradicted what the majority voted for?

Can I just point out that one of the arguments for staying in the UK was that this would be the only way to stay in the EU? And look how that turned out.

I think there will be a second referendum and it will take place within a matter of months.

Either way I think there will be second referendum. Who wins it of course, is another question.