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Why aren't Western feminists marching against Saudi Arabia, ISIS, etc.?

So, hundreds of thousands of Western feminists are marching against the democratic election of Trump, presumably on the basis of some of the misogynistic comments he has made (which I, of course, condemn).

Yet where are the hundreds of thousands of Western feminists marching against the much, much more serious acts against women in places like Saudi Arabia and Syria?

And before someone tells me 'Western feminists have marched against Saudi Arabia and ISIS' - I don't recall such marches involving hundreds of thousands.

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because they don't care about women in those countries. They don't live there.
1) How exactly will marching against Saudi Arabia and ISIS make a difference? The whole point of democracy is that leaders can be held accountable for their actions to some degree. They are not marching against Trump just to make some noise, they are marching to show him that if he does implement policies against women (such as anti-choice legislation), he will be opposed. Do you think that ISIS cares if women in the West are marching against them?

2) People are more vocal about what affects them. You can argue as to whether or not it's right but that's reality.

3) And lastly, every time Saudi women have campaigned to drive or to abolish the guardianship system, Western feminists have organised campaigns to express solidarity with them. I do believe that in Saudi's case (not ISIS'), more could be done, such as organising sister protests outside of the Saudi embassy whenever Saudi women protest these laws. It would send a powerful message of solidarity.
Reply 3
Avatar for Josb
Josb
6
Original post by ChickenMadness
because they don't care about women in those countries. They don't live there.


They don't live in the USA as well...
We're a huge arms dealer and sell weapons to Saudi. To make any difference we'd need to lobby the government but even then we're a massive exporter of weapons to Saudi so no change will be made.

ISIS are not going to see these demonstrations and suddenly make change.

The demonstration from today will send a message to Trump since we live in a democracy and he apparently listens to the "people".
Original post by Josb
They don't live in the USA as well...


Because they don't care about women in those countries*
Original post by WBZ144
1) How exactly will marching against Saudi Arabia and ISIS make a difference? The whole point of democracy is that leaders can be held accountable for their actions to some degree. They are not marching against Trump just to make some noise, they are marching to show him that if he does implement policies against women (such as anti-choice legislation), he will be opposed. Do you think that ISIS cares if women in the West are marching against them?


Do you believe this marching will make a difference? Has the Trump administration indicated it will change direction as a result? Tell me how this makes more of a tangible difference than marching against Saudi Arabia and ISIS? How do 100,000 people marching in London make a difference to a foreign administration?

2) People are more vocal about what affects them. You can argue as to whether or not it's right but that's reality.


I can't say I disagree really, but do maintain it is wrong when it comes to the severity of Trump's comments vs. the severity of Saudi or ISIS' treatment of women.

3) And lastly, every time Saudi women have campaigned to drive or to abolish the guardianship system, Western feminists have organised campaigns to express solidarity with them. I do believe that in Saudi's case (not ISIS':wink:, more could be done, such as organising sister protests outside of the Saudi embassy whenever Saudi women protest these laws. It would send a powerful message of solidarity.


Yet we have not seen hundreds of thousands of feminists doing this in London. The ones in London are seemingly happy to march in their hundreds of thousands against a foreign government where the head makes misogynistic comments, yet do not seem willing to march in their hundreds of thousands against a foreign government which grossly and significantly infringes on the rights of women.
It's easier to complain about the wage gap.
Original post by Iridocyclitis
Do you believe this marching will make a difference? Has the Trump administration indicated it will change direction as a result? Tell me how this makes more of a tangible difference than marching against Saudi Arabia and ISIS? How do 100,000 people marching in London make a difference to a foreign administration?


Protests put pressure on democratic governments. They are employed by the people, not the other way round (at least that's how it's supposed to be), so they are supposed to care about what the people think and want. If they anger enough people, their party will not be seeing a second term. So it's in their best interests to address public demands, as long as they are reasonable. The more people protest, the more pressure is put on a democratic government.

Why on Earth would the autocratic Saudi government care if Western women are opposing their policies? The only thing that would make them flinch is if they started to witness protests in their own country and there was a risk of unrest. Then they could possibly come to a compromise to stop that from happening (after arresting all or most of the protesters). To them it's about keeping the majority happy so they can subjugate the minority of dissent easily, and attitudes towards women's rights are still very conservative over there. What is required is a major shift in attitudes over there, not marches from Western women which will be met with scorn.

As for ISIS, a women's protest against them would be a bit of a joke. Not only would they not see it or perhaps scoff if they did see it but they are a rogue, terrorist groups. Why treat them as a legitimate state by demanding that they respect women's rights?

I can't say I disagree really, but do maintain it is wrong when it comes to the severity of Trump's comments vs. the severity of Saudi or ISIS' treatment of women.


Refer back to my previous points on Saudi and ISIS.

Yet we have not seen hundreds of thousands of feminists doing this in London. The ones in London are seemingly happy to march in their hundreds of thousands against a foreign government where the head makes misogynistic comments, yet do not seem willing to march in their hundreds of thousands against a foreign government which grossly and significantly infringes on the rights of women.


And the point of the sister marches in London was to show solidarity with the women marching in DC. America has a massive influence over our government that the Saudi government does not have, which we don't have much of a say over, so in a way Trump is our ruler as well. Western women don't want his behaviour and attitudes towards women to become the new normal in the West amongst political leaders who have power over us. And like I said: seeing those women united is much more likely to deter his administration from introducing regressive legislation than it is to make the Saudi government introduce sudden and drastic changes to women's rights in their country.
(edited 7 years ago)
Reply 9
Avatar for viffer
viffer
16
Original post by .WBZ144
And the point of the sister marches in London was to show solidarity with the women marching in DC. America has a massive influence over our government that the Saudi government does not have, which we don't have much of a say over, so in a way Trump is our ruler as well. Western women don't want his behaviour and attitudes towards women to become the new normal in the West amongst political leaders who have power over us. And like I said: seeing those women united is much more likely to deter his administration from introducing regressive legislation than it is to make the Saudi government introduce sudden and drastic changes to women's rights in their country.
As others have pointed out, if 'it' is important enough to you why don't you try. Women's rights and equality must surely apply wherever on the planet they are . Not just the places you might go on holiday
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by Chief Wiggum


Every actual feminist I know does not pander to Islam...
Original post by WBZ144
1) How exactly will marching against Saudi Arabia and ISIS make a difference? .


How is marching for Trump going to make a difference? He is still the president at the end of the day and marching would not stop him doing whatever he is going to do.
Original post by viffer
As others have pointed out, if 'it' is important enough to you why don't you try. Women's rights and equality must surely apply wherever on the planet they are . Not just the places you might go on holiday


I am open to suggestions that will actually work. Got any?
Original post by loveleest
How is marching for Trump going to make a difference? He is still the president at the end of the day and marching would not stop him doing whatever he is going to do.


I already answered that in my second post.
Reply 14
Avatar for viffer
viffer
16
Original post by WBZ144
I am open to suggestions that will actually work.
You are giving off a pessimistic and half-hearted vibe Weebz. So, some women's equal rights are worth overtly fighting for but not the ones who really need it? Disappointing :colonhash:
Original post by viffer
You are giving off a pessimistic and half-hearted vibe Weebz. So, some women's equal rights are worth overtly fighting for but not the ones who really need it? Disappointing :colonhash:


So no suggestions, I take it?

And I'm anything but pessimistic, I know that things will change for women in Saudi Arabia and having lived there, have a good idea how that might happen. But I am also aware that Western women staging protests is not what will achieve this change.
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by ChickenMadness
because they don't care about women in those countries. They don't live there.


By that extension, why are UK/France/German feminists protesting Trump? They don't live there...
Western feminists don't march in protest against Saudi because being part of the left wing Borg, they understand that Islam is higher up the victim totem than women's rights.

The same reason.....

They are happy to ignore the Muslim rape epidemic Europe is undergoing. (Think Rotherham)

They are happy to ignore FGM in the UK.( yes its illegal now but how many prosecutions have there been?)

They are happy to support a Muslim males right to force his property to dress in a modest fashion.

On and on.........

Also protesting Trump isn't likely to end up with your head being hacked off, safe virtue signalling is always preferable.
(edited 7 years ago)
The latest news is that Theresa May will be discussing Trump's attitude towards women in the newest summits. The protests were a success.
Original post by knightchildish
The latest news is that Theresa May will be discussing Trump's attitude towards women in the newest summits. The protests were a success.


You actually believe May would waste her time with such nonsense?

Look, if Western politicians actually believed what they spout about equality what kind of relationship do you think the West would have with countries like Saudi and Pakistan.

Anyway, what makes you think a woman who achieved the highest political office in the land on her own merits would be sympathetic to whiny feminists?

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