Gross Misconduct - Fired help!
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Having just applied to quite a lot of grad jobs, I dont recall being asked on any of the applications whether I have been dismissed from any job. That combined with the dismissal being completely internal, I dont see why there would be any particular problem. I also fail to see why it would particularly cause problems for a role within financial services rather than any industry.
I wouldnt be including the experience on my CV if I was dismissed. It gives a potential employer the opportunity to ask about why you left the role which would then force you to discuss what happened. If you are asked, you should explain what happened. However, if you arent asked at any point, then there is no reason you would need to disclose the information imo.
Plenty of people are dismissed from jobs at some point in their career and go on to work in financial services. As long as the dismissal is an internal process, I can't see why being dismissed for what you did should be viewed as anything different from any other kind of dismissal.
I wouldnt be including the experience on my CV if I was dismissed. It gives a potential employer the opportunity to ask about why you left the role which would then force you to discuss what happened. If you are asked, you should explain what happened. However, if you arent asked at any point, then there is no reason you would need to disclose the information imo.
Plenty of people are dismissed from jobs at some point in their career and go on to work in financial services. As long as the dismissal is an internal process, I can't see why being dismissed for what you did should be viewed as anything different from any other kind of dismissal.
Original post by M1011
Declare - don't get job
Don't declare - get the job. Exceptionally unlikely to ever come up given the scenario (particularly if OP doesn't tell everyone under the sun about it). Worst case scenario, lose job.
If it was a genuine mistake, then I'm not sure I'd have a moral objection for taking the second route.
Don't declare - get the job. Exceptionally unlikely to ever come up given the scenario (particularly if OP doesn't tell everyone under the sun about it). Worst case scenario, lose job.
If it was a genuine mistake, then I'm not sure I'd have a moral objection for taking the second route.
Everyone's having a go at you but it is a practical solution. The world will punish you for telling the truth. If you tell people what you did you have no chance, even with the honesty. So you have to play the game and take a risk.
Original post by l'etranger
Do you forge your academic history too? I can't believe you actually think lying to your employer in a field so competitive your coworkers will screw you for anything they can get you on could possibly work.
Relax buddy, you're taking this a bit to heart don't you think?
I think if the dismissal was based around some bull during a part time university gig, that it's punishment enough to the OPs CV to have to leave the work experience off his record. I'm not suggesting he keeps the experience on his CV and lies about the outcome, I'm suggesting he simply doesn't talk about it or list it. Claiming something you haven't achieve (e.g. a grade per your example) is very different and I would never condone that. It's morally far worse, and the chance of getting caught is far higher.
As for me personally, I've thankfully never had a situation such as the one in the OP.
Original post by l'etranger
Typical useless accountant.
I was an account once upon a time, then I was a management consultant, now I work for a bank. Are all my past and present professions equally useless, or do I get a pass?
Original post by M1011
Relax buddy, you're taking this a bit to heart don't you think?
I think if the dismissal was based around some bull during a part time university gig, that it's punishment enough to the OPs CV to have to leave the work experience off his record. I'm not suggesting he keeps the experience on his CV and lies about the outcome, I'm suggesting he simply doesn't talk about it or list it. Claiming something you haven't achieve (e.g. a grade per your example) is very different and I would never condone that. It's morally far worse, and the chance of getting caught is far higher.
As for me personally, I've thankfully never had a situation such as the one in the OP.
I think if the dismissal was based around some bull during a part time university gig, that it's punishment enough to the OPs CV to have to leave the work experience off his record. I'm not suggesting he keeps the experience on his CV and lies about the outcome, I'm suggesting he simply doesn't talk about it or list it. Claiming something you haven't achieve (e.g. a grade per your example) is very different and I would never condone that. It's morally far worse, and the chance of getting caught is far higher.
As for me personally, I've thankfully never had a situation such as the one in the OP.
It's really simple. If OP is not asked, don't mention it, but don't ever lie.
Original post by M1011
I was an account once upon a time, then I was a management consultant, now I work for a bank. Are all my past and present professions equally useless, or do I get a pass?
You get a fail for giving poor advice.
Original post by Reality Check
I know...like there aren't agencies or databases which cross check application details
Databases that cross reference internal HR decisions that had no impact on the OPs public record? Please do share these 'databases'. I'm intrigued.
Original post by l'etranger
You get a fail for giving poor advice.
Fair enough. I guess it's a trade off.
•
Is there a risk in omitting it? Yes, a small chance of dismissal (assuming he even gets the job). Probably about as likely to be taken to court as to be hit by lightning, but would potential wave rights to notice periods etc.
•
Is there a risk in including it? Unfortunately in today's market, he's probably unemployable if he advertises he was dismissed from his previous role.
In this particular situation it's down to the OPs willingness to accept each risk. I don't think he has any moral obligation here, assuming this is the result of a genuine and easily made mistake that's snowballed (per the OP - I only have the info he's provided).
Original post by Reality Check
Oh dear.
First off, well done for being so honest about this in your post and the total lack of self-pity and blame towards others which you express. It's extremely unusual on TSR to read posts like this, and entirely refreshing.
You know that what you have done effectively rules you out of an entry-level role in financial services - there's really not much I can add to this to make it any better. Short of being entirely honest with any future applications (which I'm sure you would be) I think it would be prudent to investigate other career options outside accountancy, finance and law.
First off, well done for being so honest about this in your post and the total lack of self-pity and blame towards others which you express. It's extremely unusual on TSR to read posts like this, and entirely refreshing.
You know that what you have done effectively rules you out of an entry-level role in financial services - there's really not much I can add to this to make it any better. Short of being entirely honest with any future applications (which I'm sure you would be) I think it would be prudent to investigate other career options outside accountancy, finance and law.
Original post by l'etranger
Professional jobs ask if you've ever been dismissed from a place of work and if so give the details.
Original post by M1011
In his shoes, I'd leave a temp job at university off. It's not like it's going to leave a gap in his employment history as he's in education.
Original post by threeportdrift
It's not clear there was any criminal activity, simply an act against the company's code of conduct. The OP isn't wildly detailed.
I got discharged from my first job when i was 18 i think. They offered me voluntary redundancy, but i didn't take it, because i was too young and naive. I didn't understand the consequences of being sacked...
Original post by Reality Check
Do you believe an internal investigation which led to a dismissal for gross misconduct based on proven fraud would remain with the organisation and not be shared? Really? And do you think that no-one in the city talks to one another?
Lots to learn!
Lots to learn!
Who would the information be shared with?
Who would 'talk to each other' about the OP?
How would someone interviewing OP in the future acquire this information if OP did not include their experience at this company on their CV?
Original post by Reality Check
Do you believe an internal investigation which led to a dismissal for gross misconduct based on proven fraud would remain with the organisation and not be shared? Really? And do you think that no-one in the city talks to one another?
Lots to learn!
Lots to learn!
Buddy, have you read the thread? We're not talking about Bernard Madoff here...
People talk in the city? This guy got dismissed from a retail store for accidentally double credit checking somebody...
Excuse the pun, but just a little reality check
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by 999tigger
Btw what's a double credit check?
It's like a credit check, but twice as thorough.
Original post by Doog a las
.....
OP, if you want to pick your way through the answers you have got here you need to be clearer about a few details.
Were you just doing some part time admin job for a retail store on something like an internal call centre setting up store cards? Or were you holding down a formal financial position in the finance department with a financial qualification test etc?
How long were you in the job for?
Was there any way you could have personally benefitted from your faulty actions, or would the harm or benefit come to the company or the customer?
Are you hoping, immediately on graduation, to go into a role governed by a conduct/professional ethics body?
If, as is sounds, you screwed up a call centre type admin job, in a part time, unqualified role, you'd done for less than a year, that the screw up wouldn't have benefitted you, you should be OK. If an employer asks if you have ever been dismissed it stands to reason you have to give full details. But if they don't ask, you don't have to tell, so leave it off your CV and don't use if for competency answers etc.
Posted from TSR Mobile
Apply for a job outside of the financial sector to build up some work history.
Original post by 999tigger
Btw what's a double credit check?
In a previous thread (OP made this thread and deleted it/it got deleted a few days ago) he said that he did a credit check for a customer on one system which was declined. Then did a credit check on another system which went through.
Original post by threeportdrift
OP, if you want to pick your way through the answers you have got here you need to be clearer about a few details.
Were you just doing some part time admin job for a retail store on something like an internal call centre setting up store cards? Or were you holding down a formal financial position in the finance department with a financial qualification test etc?
How long were you in the job for?
Was there any way you could have personally benefitted from your faulty actions, or would the harm or benefit come to the company or the customer?
Are you hoping, immediately on graduation, to go into a role governed by a conduct/professional ethics body?
If, as is sounds, you screwed up a call centre type admin job, in a part time, unqualified role, you'd done for less than a year, that the screw up wouldn't have benefitted you, you should be OK. If an employer asks if you have ever been dismissed it stands to reason you have to give full details. But if they don't ask, you don't have to tell, so leave it off your CV and don't use if for competency answers etc.
Posted from TSR Mobile
Were you just doing some part time admin job for a retail store on something like an internal call centre setting up store cards? Or were you holding down a formal financial position in the finance department with a financial qualification test etc?
How long were you in the job for?
Was there any way you could have personally benefitted from your faulty actions, or would the harm or benefit come to the company or the customer?
Are you hoping, immediately on graduation, to go into a role governed by a conduct/professional ethics body?
If, as is sounds, you screwed up a call centre type admin job, in a part time, unqualified role, you'd done for less than a year, that the screw up wouldn't have benefitted you, you should be OK. If an employer asks if you have ever been dismissed it stands to reason you have to give full details. But if they don't ask, you don't have to tell, so leave it off your CV and don't use if for competency answers etc.
Posted from TSR Mobile
I agree with this post but, realistically, what graduate employer isn't going to ask if the applicant has ever been dismissed or had disciplinary proceedings against them? It's a standard application question, so surely the answers to this need to be what he can do about it when he's asked, given it's exceptionally unlikely for him not to be asked?
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by josh_v
In a previous thread (OP made this thread and deleted it/it got deleted a few days ago) he said that he did a credit check for a customer on one system which was declined. Then did a credit check on another system which went through.
Why is that a sackable offense?
Original post by Reality Check
I agree with this post but, realistically, what graduate employer isn't going to ask if the applicant has ever been dismissed or had disciplinary proceedings against them? It's a standard application question, so surely the answers to this need to be what he can do about it when he's asked, given it's exceptionally unlikely for him not to be asked?
Which applications have you done? And which specifically asked you that question?
Ive just gone through a lot of applications for banks and accounting firms and can't recall being asked that question. Admittedly I would have just ticked no, so it may not have fully registered with me that Id been asked, but I dont recall it from any application.
Original post by josh_v
In a previous thread (OP made this thread and deleted it/it got deleted a few days ago) he said that he did a credit check for a customer on one system which was declined. Then did a credit check on another system which went through.
Thanks. Bit silly really. If its against procedure then why bother? Highly unlikely ever to get caught out with this imo.
Original post by M1011
It's like a credit check, but twice as thorough.
Thanks josh explained above (plus what he did) and that made perfect sense. I agree with you mostly in that it wont get picked up abd that if he isnt asked then he isnt required to volunteer information. I dont think the OP's situation is as disastrous as he thinks, but he was monumentally stupid and naive considering his studies and ambition. he should check on qualifying as an accountat first and the bother about DSA hecks or anything else later.
Original post by l'etranger
Why is that a sackable offense?
No idea. That was the only explanation of what it was that I got. But I guess the rules are the rules...
Original post by 999tigger
Thanks. Bit silly really. If its against procedure then why bother? Highly unlikely ever to get caught out with this imo.
Who knows. Easy to do things without thinking sometimes.
Original post by Reality Check
What, you've applied to banks and accountancy firms and no application has asked you that question at any point - not even in a post-offer checklist?
Yes I've applied to banks, accountancy roles, energy companies, insurance companies. As I said, dont recall being asked in any application, and if I was asked, then it certainly wasn't a regular question. Post offer, I dont believe I was asked for my internship, and so far I haven't been asked for the grad role that I have been offered.
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