&#x27;Theresa May suggests NHS could be part of US trade deal&#x27;

Original post by Sephiroth

If US corporations can save the NHS money through increased competition for drugs then I don't see the problem.

It won't be about cheaper drugs, generally the big US pharma corps charge a lot more for drugs than the European ones do, hence why large numbers of Americans head to Canada for their drug purchases.

This story is one of the things Brexit was all about. The big US healthcorps want to run the NHS services. They tried it via the TTIP and the EU had to reject that under massive popular pressure. Therefore they pushed for Brexit - many of the top UKIP and Tory people who supported Brexit have links to these companies and their pressure groups - and now they have it, their tame poodles in the Tory government will hand them hospital services on a plate.

The results will be drastic declines in service quality for ordinary users of the NHS as quality makes way for profits. The big US corporations in the health sector are the main beneficiaries of spending in these services, not the patients.

There will be benefits for Theresa May and her party, in the form of large donations coming to the Conservatives from the corporations involved.

This was the plan all along.

Reply 3

3121

21

No 10 said it will never be part of a trade deal. It was part of TTIP so Obama (shockingly), Cameron and the EU wanted to see it given to US firms which would've happened if we remained. Trump has torn up TTIP and is no friend of pharmaceutical lobbyists so it's pretty clear who's hands the NHS is safer in.

Reply 4

Original post by zayn008

No 10 said it will never be part of a trade deal..

In fact, they've said the complete opposite. All she has said is that the "NHS will remain free at the point of use". In other words, "I'm flying to the US to ensure that the corporate interests that financed Brexit will now get their slice of NHS budgets."

Reply 5

ChaoticButterfly

Original post by Sephiroth

If US corporations can save the NHS money through increased competition for drugs then I don't see the problem.

Why do you assume it will save the NHS money? These corporations will want to extract as much money as possible from the NHS. That is their goal, to make money.

Reply 6

Original post by ChaoticButterfly

Why do you assume it will save the NHS money? These corporations will want to extract as much money as possible from the NHS. That is their goal, to make money.

I don't understand the logic here.

How are US corporations going to force the NHS to pay more than they already do? Talk me through how that will be allowed to happen?

The whole issue of TTIP and the NHS was because that was a deal with the whole EU. Now we can negotiate a deal that is just in OUR interests, as a free sovereign nation.

Isn't Brexit wonderful?

Reply 7

Maker

Americans pay 3 times more for a worse health service. The US health system is expensive, complicated, fragmented and people who can't afford it suffer and die.

But the US health companies make huge profits paying millions to the senior managers and shareholders as well as political lobbyists and politicians.

Trump might not be paid by US health companies but plenty in the Senate and House get millions to keep healthcare expensive and profitable.

Reply 8

Maker

Original post by astutehirstute

I don't understand the logic here.

How are US corporations going to force the NHS to pay more than they already do? Talk me through how that will be allowed to happen?

The whole issue of TTIP and the NHS was because that was a deal with the whole EU. Now we can negotiate a deal that is just in OUR interests, as a free sovereign nation.

Isn't Brexit wonderful?

The Americans will demand access to the NHS in any trade deal and Britain is in a weak position after Brexit potentially losing billions in trade with the EU.

Reply 9

Original post by Maker

The Americans will demand access to the NHS in any trade deal and Britain is in a weak position after Brexit potentially losing billions in trade with the EU.

So the Europeans want to lose $hit loads of money and jobs by putting up tariffs so we don't buy billions of Euros worth of BMWs, and bottles of Burgundy. 80 billion euros of goods from Germany alone. Sounds likely, I'm with you there.

And then we agree to a deal with the US that means we have to pay a lot more for our drugs than we already do. That sounds sensible of us. I can see why we would do that.

Yeas, you have persuaded me.

Reply 10

Original post by astutehirstute

So the Europeans want to lose $hit loads of money and jobs by putting up tariffs so we don't buy billions of Euros worth of BMWs, and bottles of Burgundy. 80 billion euros of goods from Germany alone. Sounds likely, I'm with you there.

And then we agree to a deal with the US that means we have to pay a lot more for our drugs than we already do. That sounds sensible of us. I can see why we would do that.

Yeas, you have persuaded me.

To repeat, the deals won't be about drugs. They will be about TTIP-style access to service provision. The aim is to replace hospitals, labs, nurses, specialist units, with US corporate equivalents.

The plan probably includes Virgin Healthcare who are the darlings of our privatisers and much loved in the upper echelons of government for their willingness to run a cut price system with the right propaganda for a gullible public and skilled window dressing to paste over the drops in service quality.

Reply 11

Original post by Maker

Americans pay 3 times more for a worse health service. The US health system is expensive, complicated, fragmented and people who can't afford it suffer and die.

But the US health companies make huge profits paying millions to the senior managers and shareholders as well as political lobbyists and politicians.

Trump might not be paid by US health companies but plenty in the Senate and House get millions to keep healthcare expensive and profitable.

A couple of years old, but here's a nice list from the Mirror of leading MPs of all parties who have links with the private healthcos.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/selling-nhs-profit-full-list-4646154

We can add Farage who also has links and his main funders.

Reply 12

Original post by Fullofsurprises

A couple of years old, but here's a nice list from the Mirror of leading MPs of all parties who have links with the private healthcos.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/selling-nhs-profit-full-list-4646154

We can add Farage who also has links and his main funders.

Some people are on that list because they own shares in health companies. 🤣

Have you got a pension? If so I bet you own shares in a few of them too...

Reply 13

Original post by Fullofsurprises

A couple of years old, but here's a nice list from the Mirror of leading MPs of all parties who have links with the private healthcos.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/selling-nhs-profit-full-list-4646154

We can add Farage who also has links and his main funders.

Farage does believe in moving away from socialised health, yes. But that is a political opinion, he is not some pawn of health business interests, sigh.

I am in favour of it too. People can disagree with you on this matter without it all being about enriching themselves.

The NHS was a noble idea but it has failed. If it is the best health service on the planet and the envy of the world, why has no other major country copied it? (Maybe Communist Cuba?). It isn't, in fact foreigners in developed countries pity us.

We will move to an insurance based model eventually. But I doubt that it will happen right now, despite your "fears." The country still isn't ready for it, is still prepared to put up with patients dying of thirst in their hospital beds because it is so badly run. Sigh.

Reply 14

l'etranger

2

Original post by ChaoticButterfly

Why do you assume it will save the NHS money? These corporations will want to extract as much money as possible from the NHS. That is their goal, to make money.

Most sense you've made in years.

If private companies are going to be taking a profit without harming services, it follows that money is being wasted. If money is being wasted the public sector should either slash the budget whilst maintaining the current standard of service and provide a new service, or it should use the wastage to improve the current service.

Reply 15

Sephiroth

18

Original post by ChaoticButterfly

Why do you assume it will save the NHS money? These corporations will want to extract as much money as possible from the NHS. That is their goal, to make money.

I don't assume, hence the if. I don't know enough about it to say whether it is a good thing or not. One thing I do know for sure is that the NHS is in a terrible state and certainly needs improvements. It is ridiculous that patients can be denied drugs or services either because of where they live or because it costs too much for a publicly funded service. I'm not saying the US system should be brought in either, their health services are far worse than ours.

I don't see how introducing competition for drugs or services could cost the NHS more money however, they will always go for the cheapest and in order to compete these US corporations would have to reduce their prices.

Reply 16

ChaoticButterfly

Original post by astutehirstute

I don't understand the logic here.

How are US corporations going to force the NHS to pay more than they already do? Talk me through how that will be allowed to happen?

The whole issue of TTIP and the NHS was because that was a deal with the whole EU. Now we can negotiate a deal that is just in OUR interests, as a free sovereign nation.

Isn't Brexit wonderful?

What this guys says.

Original post by Maker

Americans pay 3 times more for a worse health service. The US health system is expensive, complicated, fragmented and people who can't afford it suffer and die.

But the US health companies make huge profits paying millions to the senior managers and shareholders as well as political lobbyists and politicians.

Trump might not be paid by US health companies but plenty in the Senate and House get millions to keep healthcare expensive and profitable.

Also the people who make the trade deal are either delusional "free market" types who will just sign anything that has the words privatisation in it and don't actually rely on the NHS in the same way someone like me does. Not only that there are many UK MPs who make money out of the NHS and benefit from privatising it...

This is my issue with Brexit, we are now ran by people who are happy to turn our health care system into a more US direction which is all about profiteering and not focused on running a public service.

Since we are leaving the EU and seem to be taking the hard brexit option we need trade deals etc and and the USA will ant to get something out of us and since we are lead by awful Tories they will happily give the NHS the to same monsters who run the american healthcare system.

Original post by l'etranger

If private companies are going to be taking a profit without harming services, it follows that money is being wasted.

Which is why it shouldn't be privatised... They can only make profit by harming the service.

Not everything has to be profit orientated or indeed should be. Do you complain the police force do not turn a profit?

Original post by Sephiroth

I don't see how introducing competition for drugs or services could cost the NHS more money however, they will always go for the cheapest and in order to compete these US corporations would have to reduce their prices.

You need to look at how the large drug industry actually works. They are basically monopolies that use the state to rig the economy in their favour and are a disaster for society. There is no such thing as a competitive market when it comes to american big pharma. A real market will not be humane as loads of poorer people will not get drugs they need. It is not a real market when the companies know the government will just buy anything off of them. The companies use public funded science to develop drugs and then extort the rest of society and will exploit public services given the chance. This is already a problem.

For another example of how ****ed up drug industry is Just go see how many people in third world countries die of easily curable illness. There us no money to be made from poor people and their poor countries since neither can the people or their government renumarate the drug companies enough for them to bother making drugs for them. This is how inhumane the profit motive can be.

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 17

Maker

Original post by astutehirstute

So the Europeans want to lose $hit loads of money and jobs by putting up tariffs so we don't buy billions of Euros worth of BMWs, and bottles of Burgundy. 80 billion euros of goods from Germany alone. Sounds likely, I'm with you there.

And then we agree to a deal with the US that means we have to pay a lot more for our drugs than we already do. That sounds sensible of us. I can see why we would do that.

Yeas, you have persuaded me.

Cars and wine are a small part of the UK trade with the EU. There a lot more trade in services like finance and legal and worth a lot more than cars and wine. The EU wants that for themselves and more than happy to poach UK workers or set up put up barriers to prevent UK workers getting the business.

Reply 18

ChaoticButterfly