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How Effective is Trump's "Muslim Ban"?

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It doesn't matter where immigrants come from it is more important to determine their fit into western society. Do they support equality, freedom of speech, freedom of religion, women's rights, gay rights?
Roughly 40% of Americans oppose same sex marriage, only 32% believe in scientific evolution and 90% believe in God - yet people seem to justify refusal to allow refugees in because they oppose same sex marriage and are religious!

In general, though, I do agree that integration is important and no country should be letting in people who clearly cannot integrate and contribute. This has nothing to do with Trump's executive order to ban entry from these 7 countries, though (which was on the grounds of terrorism - see my posts above for why this ban does not serve this end).

Reply 21

username2950448

Original post by Hydeman

An easier way to achieve this would be to notice that most Muslim countries issue passports which record the holder's religion.

The problem with this, however, is that in many of these Muslim countries, such as Iran and Saudi Arabia, there is no option on the census for "atheist" - so many people will, for cultural/societal reasons, just identify as a Muslim even if they are not (similarly to how in the UK many identify as (culturally) "Christian" on the census whilst actually being atheists for all intents and purposes).

Just goes to show he's failing to meet even the bar he sets for himself, nevermind anyone else's standards/expectations. :moon:

+1.

Reply 22

jape

Original post by Palmyra

Roughly 40% of Americans oppose same sex marriage, only 32% believe in scientific evolution and 90% believe in God - yet people seem to justify refusal to allow refugees in because they oppose same sex marriage and are religious!

There is no way those numbers are anywhere near correct. 90% of Americans believe in God and only 32% believe in evolution?

Reply 23

username2950448

Original post by jape

There is no way those numbers are anywhere near correct. 90% of Americans believe in God and only 32% believe in evolution?

90% believe in God: http://www.gallup.com/poll/193271/americans-believe-god.aspx
32% believe in scientific evolution: http://www.iflscience.com/plants-and-animals/just-13-americans-believe-theory-evolution-natural-selection/

Spoiler

Reply 24

JamesN88

What he should be doing(and us the same) is kick out Wahhabi preachers and shut down Saudi funded schools and mosques.

This is just for appearances to make it look like he's following up on his promise without actually achieving anything. After all nobody wants to upset their major arms customers.

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 25

username2950448

Original post by JamesN88

Great post, could not agree more.

This also links to his very worrying conflict of interests and refusal to set up a blind trust over his assets (as all previous Presidents have done) - none of the countries in which he has personal business interests are affected by this so-called Muslim ban.

Reply 26

999tigger

Original post by Palmyra

Are we supposed to be pleased that the most powerful man in the world doesn't care about the effectiveness of his policies, as long as they sound good to his supporters (whom don't really understand the policy and why it doesn't make America safer like they might think it does)?

This is evidently not true. The very nature of the United States (and thereby, to some extent, the West as a whole) is at stake. There are over 1 million Iranian Americans, 250,000 Iraqi Americans, 150,000 Syrian Americans (etc) - all of these will be significantly affected by this ridiculous ban. Even if they have a green card and are legal residents of the U.S. they now cannot leave the U.S. for whatever reason, for fear that they will not be allowed to return to their country. This is utterly disgusting and unjustifiable.

As Chuck Schumer (whom I am not a huge fan of) said: "There are tears running down the cheeks of the Statue of Liberty tonight."

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/316631-schumer-calls-trumps-refugee-ban-backward-and-nasty-executive

I never said you had to be pleased nor did I say the policies would be effective. My point is I doubt he cares, but he will note that it will go down well with his supporters.

As I said nobody except the people who it affects really cares, especially the people making the policy. I never said the policy made sense or will be effective. Its a simple solution for simple people. They will make policy on the hoof, so if enough fuss is kicked up, then they will deal with the green card issue. Foreign policy was never going to be his strong point.

Reply 27

dindu

I'm pretty sure Indonesia has a larger population of Muslims than India.

Reply 28

Ladymusiclover

It's stupid. This is why a businessman shouldn't be the president. (I'm not saying Hilary would be any better though).

Reply 29

StrawbAri

Original post by jape

Also, and I might be misremembering, but I'm pretty sure this isn't a blanket Muslim ban. It's a temporary ban on immigrants from Iraq, Iran, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, Syria and Yemen (persecuted religious minorities can come through though).

Not just immigrants but people that hold green cards won't be able to re-enter the country if they leave for whatever reason, college students studying in America with legal visas that had gone to visit family abroad won't be able to come back and continue their studies, people going on or returning from international business meetings won't be able to leave or re enter the country, even an Iranian oscar nominee is barred from attending the event.
And it's just for 90 days.

I'll hold my tongue on my ideas of alternative, more efficient solutions to the terrorist problem because it's been mentioned in this thread but let's say this is a 100% effective solution to terrorism, why weren't considerations made for the above people? Just seems like a 90 day inconvenience for people going about their normal business.

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 30

Moonstruck16

Original post by Ladymusiclover

It's stupid. This is why a businessman shouldn't be the president. (I'm not saying Hilary would be any better though).

I won't be surprised in the US gets burnt by this...

Posted from TSR Mobile

Reply 31

username2950448

Original post by dindu

I'm pretty sure Indonesia has a larger population of Muslims than India.

Oops, that is correct - my apologies. As of 2010, India had 175 million Muslims (and Indonesia had 200 million). India is, however, projected to soon overtake Indonesia in this regard.

Reply 32

dindu

Original post by Palmyra

Oops, that is correct - my apologies. As of 2010, India had 175 million Muslims (and Indonesia had 200 million). India is, however, projected to soon overtake Indonesia in this regard.

No worries dadash.

Reply 33

JamesN88

Original post by jape

There is no way those numbers are anywhere near correct. 90% of Americans believe in God and only 32% believe in evolution?

This has belief in creationism at 42%. America is so religious because it's where a lot of loony sects emigrated to from Europe.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/170822/believe-creationist-view-human-origins.aspx?utm_source=alert&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=syndication&utm_content=morelink&utm_term=Religion

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 34

username2950448

Original post by JamesN88

That has only 19% believing in "scientific evolution" (i.e. evolution without the input from a 'God'), even lower than the 32% I posted.

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 35

username2950448

Confirmation that this ban will mean that Asghar Farhadi, the director of the Oscar-nominated film The Salesman, will not be able to attend the upcoming Oscars awards ceremony.

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/films/news/donald-trump-muslim-ban-oscars-2017-director-asghar-farhadi-iran-the-salesman-a7550751.html

You know you have messed up when your ban includes Oscar-nominated directors from attending awards shows.

Reply 36

dindu

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-muslim-ban-google-recalls-staff-immigration-facebook-mark-zuckerberg-tech-silicon-a7550876.html

So even if you have a job in the US but aren't a citizen you will also be affected? What is the logic behind this?

Reply 37

Carthaginian

"That's it, sorry muslims, you're all getting banned"
"Actually wait, unless you're rich, you're allowed"

Reply 38

username2950448

Original post by dindu

So even if you have a job in the US but aren't a citizen you will also be affected? What is the logic behind this?

There is no logic behind this. Iranian students at American Universities with a green card (legal residents) have been refused (re-)entry into the U.S. (one went to Austria to visit a family member, then found he couldn't get back into the U.S.).

Reply 39

dindu

Original post by Palmyra

Sorry not aware with US system; is green card not citizenship? Or I'm assuming it's equivalent to Leave to Remain in the UK.

That sucks for the student, will waste a whole year of studies at the minimum. If he just put a restriction on refugees I actually wouldn't have much of a problem with it, restricting students and people with long standing jobs already is just dumb.