Who here voted remain and who leave?

Voted remain and have seen absolutely nothing to suggest that leaving was the right choice.

Reply 122

Original post by JamesN88

You've hit the nail on the head IMO. Yes the EU is a Capitalist construct but it's reasonably restrained(i.e. worker's rights and good environmental and consumer protections).

Exactly. It's basically a privileged club, at the expense of the world's poorest. But Britain isn't leaving in order to help out the global poor. It's doing so in order to shrug off those pesky ethical and environmental regulations that stop its rich from doing what's most lucrative and profitable for them, come hell or high water. As usual, it's the poorest in the country that will feel the effect of the change. The only tiny silver lining I can see in the whole thing is that - should the EU survive - it is now easier for them to act on some of the progressive policies they tried to introduce (like the Robin Hood tax), because we won't be there to stop it.

Reply 123

math42

Original post by Rhythmical

I voted Remain too but I'd never berate someone or put them down if they voted Leave. Everyone had their own opinion, just because they voted Leave doesn't mean they have no conscience or morality.

Ty for talking sense
I voted leave but I am no xenophobe, racist or, I believe, moron, and it is irritating to be branded as such.

Reply 124

Yaboi

Original post by JoshDawg

do not regret voting leave one bit. fantastic opportunities will be arising over the next few years.

Like what exactly

Reply 125

JamesN88

Original post by Craghyrax

Exactly. It's basically a privileged club, at the expense of the world's poorest. But Britain isn't leaving in order to help out the global poor. It's doing so in order to shrug off those pesky ethical and environmental regulations that stop its rich from doing what's most lucrative and profitable for them, come hell or high water. As usual, it's the poorest in the country that will feel the effect of the change. The only tiny silver lining I can see in the whole thing is that - should the EU survive - it is now easier for them to act on some of the progressive policies they tried to introduce (like the Robin Hood tax), because we won't be there to stop it.

Yeah they can probably save their steel industry as well now we aren't leading the way blocking tariffs on the Chinese.

Reply 126

Original post by JamesN88

Yeah they can probably save their steel industry as well now we aren't leading the way blocking tariffs on the Chinese.

Yep. I really think they could be better off without us.

Reply 127

Stiff Little Fingers

21

Original post by karl pilkington

What are you talking about? No one cares what you personally want. The point is it was taxpyers money that they were throwing around. Why should people be forced to pay taxes for something which they have no control over and doesn't benefit their lives. Let's say that people can restrict tax squandering if they vote a government out they can't do that with the EU

Except investment in our R&D sectors massively benefits our quality of life, as well as our GDP (If I remember the stats correctly, every pound invested once in cardiac research for instance returns something like 35p per year). So the line about it being tax payers money is irrelevant - it's exactly what tax payer money should be spent on.

Reply 128

Original post by Craghyrax

Exactly. It's basically a privileged club, at the expense of the world's poorest. But Britain isn't leaving in order to help out the global poor. It's doing so in order to shrug off those pesky ethical and environmental regulations that stop its rich from doing what's most lucrative and profitable for them, come hell or high water. As usual, it's the poorest in the country that will feel the effect of the change. The only tiny silver lining I can see in the whole thing is that - should the EU survive - it is now easier for them to act on some of the progressive policies they tried to introduce (like the Robin Hood tax), because we won't be there to stop it.

We are leaving to lead the world in global free trade. Nothing has helped the world's poorest people more than trade liberalisation. Nothing.

Reply 129

Original post by midnightice

We are leaving to lead the world in global free trade. Nothing has helped the world's poorest people more than trade liberalisation. Nothing.

That's a very complicated question. There's evidence both for and against that view.
I'm busy working today though, so if you actually care, look up Stiglitz and Wolf.

Reply 130

Original post by Craghyrax

That's a very complicated question. There's evidence both for and against that view.
I'm busy working today though, so if you actually care, look up Stiglitz and Wolf.

It's not complicated at all. Tariffs are taxes on consumers and barriers to comparative advantage. For example, the main reason we have a strong agriculture sector in the UK is because of the artificial protectionism of the customs union, to the detriment of many African farmers and their comparative advantage. The common external tariff is a reflection of industry cronyism in the EU, propping up inefficient industries. There are always winners and losers in genuine free trade operating on mutual recognition, but overall the economy becomes more prosperous, evident in massive progress the world has made on poverty reduction.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/billionaires-getting-richer-doesnt-mean-someone-else-getting-poorer-1601355?utm_source=social&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=/billionaires-getting-richer-doesnt-mean-someone-else-getting-poorer-1601355

Reply 131

Original post by midnightice

It's not complicated at all. Tariffs are taxes on consumers and barriers to comparative advantage. For example, the main reason we have a strong agriculture sector in the UK is because of the artificial protectionism of the customs union, to the detriment of many African farmers and their comparative advantage. The common external tariff is a reflection of industry cronyism in the EU, propping up inefficient industries. There are always winners and losers in genuine free trade operating on mutual recognition, but overall the economy becomes more prosperous, evident in massive progress the world has made on poverty reduction.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/billionaires-getting-richer-doesnt-mean-someone-else-getting-poorer-1601355?utm_source=social&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=/billionaires-getting-richer-doesnt-mean-someone-else-getting-poorer-1601355

Actually it is. You're just ignorant. As I said, read the sources I recommended or GTFO. I did my degree on this :smile:

And I don't have time to teach you.

Reply 132

Stiff Little Fingers

21

Original post by midnightice

Have you been living in a cave? The government has set up a new Research & Innovation body, UKRI, as part of the largest funding increase in Science & Technology since the 80s. The new industrial strategy shows a more intelligent approach to investment, and no one is suggesting ceasing funding of European science collaboration.

Remember Brown's 10 year framework? UKRI sounds good but anyone not looking the gifthorse in the mouth is too trusting, which in practice means as naive as a new born bunny. I'd love to be proven wrong, but at best it's a replacement for the eu funding we'll lose, not the big investment claimed.

As for no-one suggesting ending funding of European collaboration... have you completely missed all this hard brexit rhetoric? What makes you think we stand even a snowflakes chance in hell of keeping eu funding while pulling out completely?

Reply 133

Original post by Stiff Little Fingers

Remember Brown's 10 year framework? UKRI sounds good but anyone not looking the gifthorse in the mouth is too trusting, which in practice means as naive as a new born bunny. I'd love to be proven wrong, but at best it's a replacement for the eu funding we'll lose, not the big investment claimed.

As for no-one suggesting ending funding of European collaboration... have you completely missed all this hard brexit rhetoric? What makes you think we stand even a snowflakes chance in hell of keeping eu funding while pulling out completely?

I think it looks promising and we still haven't seen the full publication of the industrial strategy yet. The UK is undeniably the capital of university research and development in Europe, and will continue to be so.

"Hard Brexit" is a silly term really. It refers to us leaving the legislative supremacy of the ECJ, and thus membership of the single market, and also the customs union. It does not mean ceasing funding on mutually beneficial scientific collaborations, such as Horizon, as well as educational initiatives such as Erasmus. We will continue to pay to the budget for such programmes. Leaving the single market does not prevent us from doing this; many countries outside of the EU pay in for this collaboration.

Reply 134

yudothis

Original post by Rhythmical

I voted Remain too but I'd never berate someone or put them down if they voted Leave. Everyone had their own opinion, just because they voted Leave doesn't mean they have no conscience or morality.

True, not no, but certainly a different one to yours. And is it always the way to go to not question differences?

Reply 135

Original post by Craghyrax

Actually it is. You're just ignorant. As I said, read the sources I recommended or GTFO. I did my degree on this :smile:

And I don't have time to teach you.

Wow, a bit rude, don't you think? No need for the petty aggressive tone just because I take the view of the majority of respected economists.

How am I ignorant? Wow, you did a degree on this, well done, good for you. Newsflash, so have I!

Stiglitz isn't against free trade, he's against corporatist trade agreements, such as TPP, masquerading as free trade. No respected economist thinks tariffs leave people on the whole better off. That's illiterate.

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 136

yudothis

Original post by 1 8 13 20 42

Ty for talking sense
I voted leave but I am no xenophobe, racist or, I believe, moron, and it is irritating to be branded as such.

That's what the absolute vast majority of Leavers also say.

Do you think it's true for the absolute vast majority of Leavers?

ps do note that I have made no issue about you personally.

Reply 137

Federerr

19

The amount of reps being dished out on this thread...

Reply 138

yudothis