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How Effective is Trump's "Muslim Ban"?

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I imagine the freedom of movement only applies to U.S. citizens, not green card holders.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38781420

There are certain benefits that green card holders do have and one of them is freedom of movement:

https://www.us-immigration.com/us-immigration-news/us-green-card/benefits-of-holding-a-us-green-card/

Original post by Palmyra

CAIR are holding a news conference on Monday to give the details of the lawsuit they are bringing against this executive order.

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/cair-to-announce-constitutional-challenge-to-trumps-muslim-ban-executive-order-300398388.html

America won't even be safer after all this bs, only more divided and hateful. This is a catastrophe. A president should encourage the nation to be more peaceful, not meaner.

I've read everything and I'm so mad rn, I can't even imagine what innocent people are going through.

Reply 81

username2950448

Original post by EC

America won't even be safer after all this bs, only more divided and hateful. This is a catastrophe. A president should encourage the nation to be more peaceful, not meaner.

I agree, home grown terrorism should be the real target, not a blanket ban on countries which have never produced any refugee terrorists in the U.S...

I've read everything and I'm so mad rn, I can't even imagine what innocent people are going through.

This is a good read.

President Trump’s executive order on immigration quickly reverberated through the United States and across the globe on Saturday, slamming the border shut for an Iranian scientist headed to a lab in Boston, an Iraqi who had worked as an interpreter for the United States Army, and a Syrian refugee family headed to a new life in Ohio, among countless others. ...

Reply 82

joe cooley

Original post by Palmyra

100% stop attacks? More like 0%! There have been no refugee terrorist attackers in the U.S. from the 7 countries included in this ban.

As I (also) wrote earlier:

On September 10th 2001 exactly zero Muslims had hijacked airliners and flew them into the Twin Towers, The Pentagon or the ground........

Just because it hasn't happened, doesn't mean it won't or isn't likely to.

Europe has already experienced slaughter at the hands of Muslim "refugees".

Reply 83

username2950448

Original post by joe cooley

On September 10th 2001 exactly zero Muslims had hijacked airliners and flew them into the Twin Towers, The Pentagon or the ground....
It's interesting that you bring up 9/11. The 9/11 hijackers were Muslim, I agree. But this ban targets nationalities, and not religion (hence why it would apply to an Iranian Jew but not to a Saudi Muslim).

So, using your example, lets see where the 9/11 hijackers were from. 15 of the 19 hijackers were citizens of Saudi Arabia, 2 were from the UAE, and 1 from Egypt and Lebanon. None of these 4 countries are included in the ban.

Try again.

Reply 84

username2705335

Original post by Palmyra

100% stop attacks? More like 0%! There have been no refugee terrorist attackers in the U.S. from the 7 countries included in this ban.

As I (also) wrote earlier:

True. I guess Donald Trump is trying to make his supporters feel safer even though they technically aren't.

Reply 85

StrawbAri

Original post by saraxh

True. I guess Donald Trump is trying to make his supporters feel safer even though they technically aren't.

Imagine if down the line after everyone feels all cosy and safe after the ban, a home grown terrorist shoots up another nightclub and kills many people. I wonder what will happen next. What will Trump do? Won't it show that his plan didn't actually work?

Reply 86

joe cooley

Original post by Palmyra

It's interesting that you bring up 9/11. The 9/11 hijackers were Muslim, I agree. But this ban targets nationalities, and not religion (hence why it would apply to an Iranian Jew but not to a Saudi Muslim).

So, using your example, lets see where the 9/11 hijackers were from. 15 of the 19 hijackers were citizens of Saudi Arabia, 2 were from the UAE, and 1 from Egypt and Lebanon. None of these 4 countries are included in the ban.

Try again.

Close, but no cigar.

I agree, Mr Trump has not named enough countries in his travel ban.

Now, you made a point of the fact that no US citizen had been killed by a "refugee", i used 9/11 to show that because it has not happened before doesn't mean it will never happen.

I also pointed out that "refugees" have murdered Europeans on the streets of Paris.

Obviously if you would prefer to avoid addressing my point thats your choice, likewise others will be free to draw their own conclusion as to why you did so.

Reply 87

username2950448

Original post by childofthesun

Ermm, Israel did 9/11. Try again.

Reported.

Reply 88

username2705335

Original post by StrawbAri

I think people might protest/riot if something like that happened.

Reply 89

username2950448

Original post by joe cooley

Now, you made a point of the fact that no US citizen had been killed by a "refugee", i used 9/11 to show that because it has not happened before doesn't mean it will never happen.
The 9/11 hijackers were not refugees, but I am glad you agree that "it has not happened before".

Reply 90

troubadour.

Original post by Palmyra

Iran's legal code is purportedly based on Sharia law, and what you have said is not true for Iranian passports (there is no "religion" field).

One exception, I'll concede. I mentioned the Sharia thing to exclude constitutionally secular countries like Indonesia and Bangladesh.

Reply 91

username2950448

Original post by jape

Also, I'm afraid you're wrong. Trump has previously stated that, at the very least, Syrian Christians will be exempt from the ban due to their status as an oppressed minority religious group.

Just to confirm that you were wrong on this point:

s.5(b) of the executive order states:

Upon the resumption of USRAP admissions, the Secretary of State, in consultation with the Secretary of Homeland Security, is further directed to make changes, to the extent permitted by law, to prioritize refugee claims made by individuals on the basis of religious-based persecution, provided that the religion of the individual is a minority religion in the individual’s country of nationality.

This brings us to the relevant paragraph re: USRAP admissions: s.5(a):

The Secretary of State shall suspend the U.S. Refugee Admissions Program (USRAP) for 120 days.

Therefore, "oppressed minority religious group :undefined:

" have it even worse - as they can't apply under the USRAP for 120 days, whereas the executive order on immigration from the 7 "detrimental" countries lasts 90 days (though is likely to be renewed at the end of 90 days).

Note, however, the exception in s.5(e):

Notwithstanding the temporary suspension imposed pursuant to subsection (a) of this section, the Secretaries of State and Homeland Security may jointly determine to admit individuals to the United States as refugees on a case-by-case basis, in their discretion, but only so long as they determine that the admission of such individuals as refugees is in the national interest — including when the person is a religious minority in his country of nationality facing religious persecution, when admitting the person would enable the United States to conform its conduct to a preexisting international agreement, or when the person is already in transit and denying admission would cause undue hardship — and it would not pose a risk to the security or welfare of the United States.

But this merely affirms the discretionary case-by-case nature of the ban, instead of excluding "oppressed minority religious group :undefined:

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 92

username2950448

Original post by Hydeman

One exception, I'll concede. I mentioned the Sharia thing to exclude constitutionally secular countries like Indonesia and Bangladesh.

So, to summarise, you have proved your claim for 0 countries and I have disproved it for 1 country.

Reply 93

troubadour.

Original post by Palmyra

So, to summarise, you have proved your claim for 0 countries and I have disproved it for 1 country.

Whatever helps you feel like you've achieved something today. :rolleyes:

Reply 94

username2950448

Original post by Hydeman

Whatever helps you feel like you've achieved something today. :rolleyes:

Iraqi passports don't indicate an individual's religion either, btw, that's on their national ID card.

Same for Syrian passports (with the exception of Syrian Jews).

Doesn't look like Saudi passports even have a section for religion...

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 95

Original post by Palmyra

I agree, home grown terrorism should be the real target, not a blanket ban on countries which have never produced any refugee terrorists in the U.S...

This is a good read.

Original post by StrawbAri

I was wondering the same cause actually the Constitution of my country lets us call a referendum to suspend the President from office. There was a presidential impeachment one in 2012.

But I think they can't do that so they are ****ed.

Reply 96

wolfmoon88

Original post by EC

If I were American, this would be a great insult as I believe Trump actually thinks his nation is stupid enough to accept all of this??

I read some of the comments on twitter and they are so stupid, they don't even realize what's truly going on and people who shared their tragic stories on there actually got attacked by Trump supporters. So they brought this themselves.

We're witnessing a lot of stupid decisions at the moment that affect everyone.

I was wondering the same cause actually the Constitution of my country lets us call a referendum to suspend the President from office. There was a presidential impeachment one in 2012.

But I think they can't do that so they are ****ed.