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Theresa May shows lack of courage as she refuses to condemn Trump

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-38784199

This is pretty embarrassing. Trump's latest Executive Order has received condemnation from many European Countries and the United Nations.

While May promised that she'd be candid and stand up to Trump, the reality it seems is completely different. She flat out refused to share her views on Trumps ghastly discrimination against muslims.

It really does highlight that Brexit hasn't made the UK a strong, independent country. Instead, we are left to grovel and beg for partnerships - even when that involves sucking up to tyrants such as Trump and Erdogan.

It doesn't bode well for the UK. At the moment, it seems that we'll sell-out while accepting any deal a country throws our way - whether or not it is good for the UK.

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Trump has just banned it until he can get his plans in place, which is to give first priority to Christian Syrians. What's the problem? He will be taking in refugees.
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EC
18
The desperation for a trade deal...it's humiliating. Or maybe she really is on his side. I don't know which one is worse.
Really pathetic to see our Prime Minister be so subservient to a man who a majority of Americans did not vote for, and who has recently implemented an unconstitutional executive order which is (supposedly) completely at odds with European/British values.


Welcome to the new, 'independent' and 'free' post-EU Britain...
Original post by InnerTemple
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-38784199

This is pretty embarrassing. Trump's latest Executive Order has received condemnation from many European Countries and the United Nations.

While May promised that she'd be candid and stand up to Trump, the reality it seems is completely different. She flat out refused to share her views on Trumps ghastly discrimination against muslims.

It really does highlight that Brexit hasn't made the UK a strong, independent country. Instead, we are left to grovel and beg for partnerships - even when that involves sucking up to tyrants such as Trump and Erdogan.

It doesn't bode well for the UK. At the moment, it seems that we'll sell-out while accepting any deal a country throws our way - whether or not it is good for the UK.

I don't think she should condemn him it's a good idea we should do the same
It really does highlight that Brexit hasn't made the UK a strong, independent country. Instead, we are left to grovel and beg for partnerships - even when that involves sucking up to tyrants such as Trump and Erdogan.


Preposterous comment, filled with emotive nonsense like "grovel".

No country can live without allies. We are leaving the European Union, and the French and Germans have made it clear they mean to punish us. It's therefore in our national interest to strengthen our relationship with the United States, and with countries like Turkey.

We do business with tyrannical countries all the time; China, Saudi Arabia, etc. The United States isn't even close to being that way. And the difference is that we are engaging with the United States, with China, with Turkey, to the extent it is in our interests to do so. And that relationship doesn't give the United States or Turkey the right to make our laws, unlike our relationship with the European Union. Back in February 2016 we couldn't induce the European Commission to agree to even the most modest variations to the EU treaties in order to make our continued membership viable. They saw us as coming to them as supplicants, and arrogantly dismissed us out of hand. Well, now they are seeing the consequences of that.

It seems this criticism is mainly coming from Remoaners who desperately want to see this country fail, who want to see Brexit become a disaster, so they can say "I told you so". But that's not going to happen. Maybe the French and German euro-fanatics should have thought twice before they peremptorily dismissed our requests for treaty variations. The squealing we are now seeing from the French about the advantages the UK might derive post-Brexit is not for our benefit; they're not attacking and carping because they think it will damage us, they're doing so because they fear that we might actually make a success of it and they do not want that to happen.

I say, good! Let the Anglosphere rise again, let old obsolete Europe disappear beneath the waves. They had their chance and they blew it.
(edited 7 years ago)
Rightly so, we don't condemn our allies, the Saudis, for their treatment of women, atheists or gay people. Nor do we condemn them for their support of rebels in Yemen.

Nor do we condemn China for their one party state and treatment of North Korean defectors

Why should we condemn our American allies for doing things that are objectively not as bad?
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by EC
The desperation for a trade deal...it's humiliating.


So you're saying we shouldn't try to get a trade deal with the United States?
rather gain more influence and gain power through trade deals and other deals that have may just say hey you are wrong, it wouldnt do much
Original post by Palmyra
Really pathetic to see our Prime Minister be so subservient


How has she been subservient? Pray tell.

Do you mean by not insulting him to his face, and calling him a misogynistic fascist prick? By not poisoning the indispensable relationship in our foreign policy at a time when we need allies?

Interestingly, you people never seem to be particularly concerned about subservience when we are abasing ourselves before the French or Germans. Somehow bending over for Brussels is considered sophisticated and a measure of realpolitik. But being polite and accomodating to our fellow Anglospherians? "Subservience!", they shout. The hypocrisy stinks.
(edited 7 years ago)
Well done Theresa May.

Donald Trump has his reasons. He wants to keep his country safe. Let's mind our own business.
Original post by AlexanderHam
How has she been subservient? Pray tell.

Do you mean by not insulting him to his face, and calling him a misogynistic fascist prick? By not poisoning the indispensable relationship in our foreign policy at a time when we need allies?

Interestingly, you people never seem to be particularly concerned about subservience when we are abasing ourselves before the French or Germans.

"you people" - so emotional.

She has acted in our national interest by being subservient. The U.S. is a larger economy than all the countries in the EU combined, so frankly we are going to have to accept whatever conditions the U.S. wants in order for us to reach a trade deal with them. It isn't going to be pretty, but we are not in a position to put our moral integrity or food safety regulations above our prosperity at this moment in time.
Original post by richpanda
Trump has just banned it until he can get his plans in place, which is to give first priority to Christian Syrians. What's the problem? He will be taking in refugees.

Please do explain why refugees should be filtered out by religion? Why did Trump only a few days ago sign a ban on federal money going to international groups that perform or provide information on abortions because "every life is precious" but then when a muslim refugee child wants to come in "it's not our problem?"
Original post by Palmyra
"you people" - so emotional.


:lol: How is it emotional to make reference to you people? You're grasping at straws, mr.

The U.S. is a larger economy than all the countries in the EU combined


Which is why agreeing a trade deal with them is such a fine idea.

so frankly we are going to have to accept whatever conditions the U.S. wants


And here is the zero-sum notion of trade and international affairs. Eurofanatics are so greedy, so acquisitive, so manipulative, that they can only conceive of the larger partner exploiting the smaller one.

The United States is massively larger than Australia, and yet Australia was able to agree a pretty even trade deal (and they even negotiated it in 8 months). China is much larger than Australia, and yet Australia was able to negotiate a reciprocal and equitable trade agreement with them.

These trade deals are negotiated reciprocally; we reduce tariffs and trade barriers equally. That's how these things work. And the UK can rely on the enormous goodwill it enjoys in the Republican Party, in congress and in the White House, to keep moving these negotiations forward. There's no reason why a reciprocal trade deal, which are negotiated by lots of countries around the world, can't be agreed.

I suppose eurofanatics aren't really familiar given they've agreed, what, four trade deals in the last twenty years?

but we are not in a position to put our moral integrity or food safety regulations above our prosperity at this moment in time.


And yet that's exactly what Australia did when it negotiated AUSFTA in 2004. I suppose to know these things you'd actually need to have a clue about trade issues, and political history, rather than just repeating talking points from Remoaner commentators who are as clueless about trade issues as you are.
(edited 7 years ago)
Reply 14
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Original post by AlexanderHam
So you're saying we shouldn't try to get a trade deal with the United States?


As long as it's a mutually benefical agreement and the UK's future and its image will prosper. But negotiating partners could look to take advantage, considering the country's weak position after Brexit and no longer being in the single market.

There’s a risk that the prime minister would think that a bad deal is better than no deal just like the OP was stating.
Well done Prime Minister.

:congrats:
Original post by AlexanderHam
:lol: How is it emotional to make reference to you people? You're grasping at straws, mr.
"you people"
"Eurofanatics"
"Remoaner"
"clueless"

Now all you need to do is call me an anti-Semite. :cool:


And here is the zero-sum notion of trade and international affairs. Eurofanatics are so greedy, so acquisitive, so manipulative, that they can only conceive of the larger partner exploiting the smaller one.

When it's in their national interests to do so, and they have the leverage to be able to do so, then yes, that is usually inevitable.


The United States is massively larger than Australia, and yet Australia was able to agree a pretty even trade deal (and they even negotiated it in 8 months).

AUSFTA was negotiated in a uniquely short period of time, and it is not regarded as an economic success in the slightest.

https://crawford.anu.edu.au/pdf/ajrc/wpapers/2015/201501.pdf

Conversely, CETA took around 8 years to be signed, and has shown how trade deals can undermine European consumer/worker/environmental concerns.

I'm all for a fantastically successful, beneficial and prompt free trade deal with the U.S., but I don't like that we have to hope the U.S. doesn't choose to reflect their leverage in the manifestation of any potential deal.
What exactly does she need to condemn Trump for? Everything he has done so far has been wonderful.
This isn't about upsetting our allies. It's about standing up for our values.

The Prime Minister herself said she'd do this. She promised she would be frank with the President. But now she has gone back on that.

We are leaving the European Union, and the French and Germans have made it clear they mean to punish us. It's therefore in our national interest to strengthen our relationship with the United States


My point exactly. We've turned our back on our closest neighbours - which leaves us in a position where we're having to kowtow to the likes of Trump. May can't even express her condemnation of Trump's EO (even in a very diplomatic manner).
Just doing what's best for business and our country, that's her job at the end of the day.

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