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I'm Muslim but...

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Original post by mangekyoumusa
Certain sources say that, which a lot of people would also call deviant,
Also a lot of sources say that you must follow it,

The Quran not containing certain information does not make it imperfect
Futhermore, the Quran is to guide you, but it not all the "hows" are in it,

The "hows" are in the hadith and teachings of the prophet,
for e.g
The quran instructs us to pray,
but how to pray are not in the quran, but through the teachings of the prophet


While that's all correct there is still no source for there being any compulsion in following the Hadith. At all. At no time did God come along and say "You have to follow Hadith".
Original post by Retired_Messiah
While that's all correct there is still no source for there being any compulsion in following the Hadith. At all. At no time did God come along and say "You have to follow Hadith".


What is Hadith?
I don't understand why Muslims are homophobic, considering being homosexual is not a sin in Islam. The act of sodomy, yes.
Original post by Retired_Messiah
While that's all correct there is still no source for there being any compulsion in following the Hadith. At all. At no time did God come along and say "You have to follow Hadith".


Not explicitly, but it does say;
Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger, and beware (of evil): if ye do turn back, know ye that it is Our Messenger’s duty to proclaim (the Message) in the clearest manner. (5: 92).
O ye who believe! obey Allah, and obey the Messenger, and those charged with authority among you. If ye differ in anything among yourselves, refer it to Allah and His Messenger, if ye do believe in Allah and the Last Day: that is best, and most suitable for final determination. (4: 59).

The Hadith, being the sayings of the Prophet, must be obeyed as a Muslim (if it's weak that's another story though)
Also if you didn't have the Hadith, how would Muslims know how to pray? That argument in itself shows how the Hadith is necessary.
Original post by Kyou
I don't understand why Muslims are homophobic, considering being homosexual is not a sin in Islam. The act of sodomy, yes.

The uses of that term makes it flexible.
If you love the same gender the same way you would love the opposite, I don't think it is allowed to express it as it would be encouraging bad acts and relationships and that itself would be considered a homosexual act.

Also I wouldn't say that "feeling" is natural.
Original post by mangekyoumusa
The uses of that term makes it flexible.
If you love the same gender the same way you would love the opposite, I don't think it is allowed to express it as it would be encouraging bad acts and relationships and that itself would be considered a homosexual act.

Also I wouldn't say that "feeling" is natural.


Well it all depends if being homosexual is a choice or it isn't, which considering the thousands of testimonies, it's safe to say it isn't.

Desire is a natural emotion; all humans have it. If you're homosexual and Muslim, it's fine, go ahead. However, the fact is that if you act upon your desire (i.e. unlawful sexual intercourse), it's a sin. It's also a sin if you're hetero (if you're not married).
Original post by Kyou
Well it all depends if being homosexual is a choice or it isn't, which considering the thousands of testimonies, it's safe to say it isn't.

Desire is a natural emotion; all humans have it. If you're homosexual and Muslim, it's fine, go ahead. However, the fact is that if you act upon your desire (i.e. unlawful sexual intercourse), it's a sin. It's also a sin if you're hetero (if you're not married).


When I said natural,
I mean it as pure, if you know what 'fitrah' is

Obviously some people as I see it are so twisted that it has become a desire.

I think we pretty much agree on this topic then
Reply 28
Avatar for Nerry
Nerry
15
Original post by iqra2159

What do other Muslims say


they're probably taking a fatwa out against you right now.
Reply 29
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.Iqra.
OP
18
Original post by Nerry
they're probably taking a fatwa out against you right now.


I don't think that's true
Original post by mangekyoumusa
What is Hadith?


pedantry over an actual argument is my niche on here not yours get out
Original post by Kyou
Also if you didn't have the Hadith, how would Muslims know how to pray? That argument in itself shows how the Hadith is necessary.


That's a pretty strong argument against the existence of Allah, no? You don't think he would have included something as important as prayer instructions in the Quran..? :hmmmm:
Original post by Plantagenet Crown
That's a pretty strong argument against the existence of Allah, no? You don't think he would have included something as important as prayer instructions in the Quran..? :hmmmm:


I would've thought that given Allah was all seeing and all knowing, if you direct any internal dialogue towards him you'd pretty much be praying, providing you're facing Mecca (the direction is specified in the little bit of the Quran I've read, Allah goes on a small rant about how the Jews are annoying for not accepting the new direction or something iirc)

There'd surely be no need for any formalised ritual at all really, I would've thought. Which would explain why Allah didn't bother explaining how but then that again makes the hadith pretty useless.
Original post by Plantagenet Crown
That's a pretty strong argument against the existence of Allah, no? You don't think he would have included something as important as prayer instructions in the Quran..? :hmmmm:


How does Allah not telling you on how to pray defy his existence?
For you people, it might be like swallowing while having tonsillitis, but the idea of God works in mysterious ways cannot be argued against. Mysterious implies that not every act he does, is understandable.

You cannot argue against Gods decisions. You're human.


1.



Original post by Retired_Messiah
pedantry over an actual argument is my niche on here not yours get out




2.


So what If i am being "pedantic"?

3.


I'm trying to get to common grounds. To make an actual basis to talk about.

(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by mangekyoumusa
How does Allah not telling you on how to pray defy his existence?
For you people, it might be like swallowing while having tonsillitis, but the idea of God works in mysterious ways cannot be argued against. Mysterious implies that not every act he does, is understandable.

You cannot argue against Gods decisions. You're human


Islam is an extremely ritualistic religion where the way you pray is one of the most important aspects of the religion. Pretty odd that Allah didn't say anything about it in his perfect and final word, don't you think?
Original post by mangekyoumusa
How does Allah not telling you on how to pray defy his existence?
For you people, it might be like swallowing while having tonsillitis, but the idea of God works in mysterious ways cannot be argued against. Mysterious implies that not every act he does, is understandable.

You cannot argue against Gods decisions. You're human


Islam is an extremely ritualistic religion where the way you pray is one of the most important aspects of the faith. Pretty odd that Allah didn't say anything about it in his perfect and final word, don't you think?
Original post by Retired_Messiah
afaik Quran doesn't mention the hijab as a requirement at all, only that you cover yer boobs and yer crotch area, all other bits are vague references to beauty which you could really interpret any way you wanted if you were so inclined (although different translations can make it suddenly go very specific). Meanwhile gayness being a sin doesn't necessarily lead to you having to hate gays as a none gay. It's Allah's job to do the judging, after all.

That said I'm not a Muslim myself so I could well get shot down by a nice chap from the I-SOC in a bit.


The Sunnah clarifies that the vieling mentioned in the Quran includes hair, so that removes any vagueness.
Original post by Plantagenet Crown
Islam is an extremely ritualistic religion where the way you pray is one of the most important aspects of the faith. Pretty odd that Allah didn't say anything about it in his perfect and final word, don't you think?


Not odd at all. The Qu'ran is not a fiqh(jurisprudence) book. It lays down the foundation, it's concise. Thereafter, the hadih come as an explanation. There are many types of hadith, but lets not go into that.
Then theres ijma (concensus), again many types. Then there's qiyas (deductive analogy). Again this too has types.
Again, if prayer is so important to Allah he would have included it in the Quran and not as something that had to be explained by mortal men.
Original post by Plantagenet Crown
Again, if prayer is so important to Allah he would have included it in the Quran and not as something that had to be explained by mortal men.


Again, it is mentioned in the Qur'an. It's the particulars which aren't. After all it is a practical thing, hence learnt from person to person.

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