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Say no to Donald Trump's state visit to Britain

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Original post by Fullofsurprises
Or worse, force her to hold hands.

They will have to keep any younger royal women well away from him.


Yep, children too!!
Original post by epoddoulc
The petition will never be taken seriously as one user can sign the same petition multiple times...

Stop moaning and accept life, you people are the reason why our generation is known as the snowflake generation..


Better to be a ❄️ than a Trump supporter!!
Lol is this a joke?

Are the left gonna petition everyone that they don't like? First brexit, now this lmao.

Accept the fact he's president ffs and co-operate with him.


Posted from TSR Mobile
There is no way that HMG is going to stop this State Visit. No way on earth. We need to have a close relationship with the democratically elected President of the US, it is in our vital, national interest. That is all there is to it.

So what is the point of this protest?

# To change Trump's policy? Judged by past behaviour such protests cause him not to back down, but double down.

# To remove Trump from Office? Few if any, of those signing this petition vote in American elections

# To virtue signal and feel smug? Knock yourself out, I guess? :confused:

But please don't kid yourself that these pitiful protests have ANY utility or meaning beyond the last objective.

I am no Marxist but to paraphrase one of his most famous maxims, "the luvvies, students and lefties protest about the world, the point is to change it."
Original post by astutehirstute
There is no way that HMG is going to stop this State Visit. No way on earth. We need to have a close relationship with the democratically elected President of the US, it is in our vital, national interest. That is all there is to it.

So what is the point of this protest?

# To change Trump's policy? Judged by past behaviour such protests cause him not to back down, but double down.

# To remove Trump from Office? Few if any, of those signing this petition vote in American elections

# To virtue signal and feel smug? Knock yourself out, I guess? :confused:

But please don't kid yourself that these pitiful protests have ANY utility or meaning beyond the last objective.

I am no Marxist but to paraphrase one of his most famous maxims, "the luvvies, students and lefties protest about the world, the point is to change it."


Yeah I'm real confident about signing a free trade agreement with an economic protectionist...
The best thing about this petition is how mad it's making the Trump supporters; love getting them riled up.
Original post by Google22
Lol is this a joke?

Are the left gonna petition everyone that they don't like? First brexit, now this lmao.


Posted from TSR Mobile


It's almost as if anyone is allowed to petition anything they want in a free society; crazy huh. Suddenly the right aren't so keen on protecting civil liberties when it goes against them hey.
Hold on. So in order to combat Trump's temporary ban on travel, you're suggesting we impose a temporary ban on Trump? One cannot argue that such a ban is "against British values", then go ahead and petition for something like that. It is beyond hypocritical. Not to mention, Obama amongst other presidents have imposed similar bans in the past.
Original post by Bornblue
Yeah I'm real confident about signing a free trade agreement with an economic protectionist...


You may lack confidence in this but do you accept that it is in our vital national interest to have the best possible relationship with the United States for a whole raft of reasons?

As for your substantive point, I don't underestimate the challenges posed by negotiating a trade agreement with the US. The settlement of the Alabama Claims was the turning point in Anglo American relations, probably, and bilateral relations experienced a complete sea change, thanks to Gladstone, but even post that very wise and long sighted agreement, the US has been very firm in pursuing its national interests whenever they came into conflict with ours. Brutal in fact, during the retreat from Empire.

But why do you so lack confidence in our ability as a country to fight our corner? The world doesn't owe us a living, it is up to us to make new trade arrangements. We may lack a Gladstone but it ought not to be beyond us.

And banning Trump from visiting this country would be the worst way to start; batshit crazy in fact.
Original post by A Slice of Pi
Hold on. So in order to combat Trump's temporary ban on travel, you're suggesting we impose a temporary ban on Trump? One cannot argue that such a ban is "against British values", then go ahead and petition for something like that. It is beyond hypocritical. Not to mention, Obama amongst other presidents have imposed similar bans in the past.


The petition doesn't call for Trump to be banned from travelling here, it is against him being offered a full state visit with all that implies - a state dinner at the palace, staying with the royal family, etc.
Original post by Google22
Lol is this a joke?

Are the left gonna petition everyone that they don't like? First brexit, now this lmao.

Accept the fact he's president ffs and co-operate with him.


Posted from TSR Mobile


We have to accept that he's the President. We don't have to accept his policies, the way he uses the politics of racism and hate and last but not least, we don't have to force him on the Queen.
Original post by astutehirstute
You may lack confidence in this but do you accept that it is in our vital national interest to have the best possible relationship with the United States for a whole raft of reasons?

As for your substantive point, I don't underestimate the challenges posed by negotiating a trade agreement with the US. The settlement of the Alabama Claims was the turning point in Anglo American relations, probably, and bilateral relations experienced a complete sea change, thanks to Gladstone, but even post that very wise and long sighted agreement, the US has been very firm in pursuing its national interests whenever they came into conflict with ours. Brutal in fact, during the retreat from Empire.

But why do you so lack confidence in our ability as a country to fight our corner? The world doesn't owe us a living, it is up to us to make new trade arrangements. We may lack a Gladstone but it ought not to be beyond us.

And banning Trump from visiting this country would be the worst way to start; batshit crazy in fact.


We aren't the global power that we once were. There's a certain misty eyed nostalgia and rose-tinted backwards gaze amongst kippers and their fellow travellers in the Tory side of things about the extent to which the US takes this country seriously as a genuinely important partner. The truth is, even back in the 50s, the time people like Farage, Gove and others look back to with regret, we were already severely on the backfoot with the US and they were pushing us around and demanding unfair trading terms. That was then, when Britain still had a huge army and navy.

The truth is, Little Britain is now a reality, like it or not. The only trade agreement we will get with the US is the one approved by Congress and they won't sign up to a single thing that isn't decisively in favour of their corporate interests and treats the UK as the inferior and submissive party.
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difeo
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Original post by Fullofsurprises
Please direct me to information about the state visits to Britain of Mussolini and Adolf Hitler for comparison purposes.

The Queen meeting him and state dinners at Buck House and golfing at Balmoral - all would indicate acceptance of this neo-fascist extremist as a 'normal' leader and 'business as usual' - when it isn't.


Hitler to Trump is a pretty awful comparison
Original post by Fullofsurprises
The petition doesn't call for Trump to be banned from travelling here, it is against him being offered a full state visit with all that implies - a state dinner at the palace, staying with the royal family, etc.


But you did support a petition to prevent Trump from travelling to the UK, maybe not the current petition in question, but that other one which gained over 500k signatures.

I mean, you shouldn't need reminding, as you were the one who created the thread for that petition:
https://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=3768955

You understand technicalities, therefore you will understand more than most that blocking a state visit is not technically similar to blocking Trump from coming to the UK, but I would certainly bet on a lot of people not knowing the difference.

A feel that the point by A Slice of Pi still stands, there is certainly an element of hypocrisy.
Oh please, leftie liberals. President Trump is the most influential man in the whole of the Western world, we should be grovelling on bended knee for him to pay us a visit.
NO!!!!! The liberal media has got to you! The rest of us who are free from its clutches and can think for themselves, post all the incriminating evidence that the media ignored about Hillary!
Original post by Len Goodman
Oh please, leftie liberals. President Trump is the most influential man in the whole of the Western world, we should be grovelling on bended knee for him to pay us a visit.


What, more influential than you Len? Surely not!
Original post by _Morsey_


A feel that the point by A Slice of Pi still stands, there is certainly an element of hypocrisy.


I'm not so sure. What FoS wants is that travel applications be considered on their individual merits. I think she is not opposed to travel bans but to blanket travel bans. She wants, then, the we reject Trump for his being Donald Trump rather than his being American born or of German ancestry or any other circumstance that isn't individuating.
Original post by Fullofsurprises

The truth is, Little Britain is now a reality, like it or not. The only trade agreement we will get with the US is the one approved by Congress and they won't sign up to a single thing that isn't decisively in favour of their corporate interests and treats the UK as the inferior and submissive party.


See, this sums up the difference between us.

Neither of us doubt that the US is vastly more powerful than us in geopolitical terms. You really don't need to state the obvious.

But we seek to make the best of the UK as it is in 2017. To be a self governing, sovereign nation, who fights our corner, with the EU obviously, but also the US.

Your position reeks of despair. Of defeatism. To use a French analogy, yours is the politics of Petain, ours is of De Gaulle.
Original post by astutehirstute
You may lack confidence in this but do you accept that it is in our vital national interest to have the best possible relationship with the United States for a whole raft of reasons?


Ordinarily yes, but if the president is going to stop our citizens and MPs (Nadem Zahawi) from travelling to America simply because of the country they are born in, then I have big reservations. Just as I do about his support of torture and distaste of women's abortion rights. I believe we should be the worlds moral leaders, not some 8th century Islamist country.



But why do you so lack confidence in our ability as a country to fight our corner? The world doesn't owe us a living, it is up to us to make new trade arrangements. We may lack a Gladstone but it ought not to be beyond us.

I'm not sure why people think we have so much to gain from a fta with the USA. Tariffs are already very low between us,

And banning Trump from visiting this country would be the worst way to start; batshit crazy in fact.


It doesn't seek to ban him. He can still come but they want his official state visit to be postponed. Even a number of tories have said this.

We should not be rolling out the red carpet for someone who has banned our own MP and a number of citizens from going to his country.

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