Why are a lot of people Islamophobic?
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Original post by AishaGirl
You say gay marriage is ok, we say it's not... What's the problem?
You say your belief in Islam is ok, 'Islamophobes' say it's not, what's the problem?
You believe that homosexuality is a sin according to your beliefs. An opinion held by the majority of Muslims I believe. In many Muslim countries, it's actually punishable by death.
I believe that is wrong according to my principals. That isn't phobia, that's rational, critical analysis.
Because the west is controlled by a media that is only concerned about the needs of the west. Put it this way, we all remember the heart-breaking terror attacks in Paris last year which gained widespread news coverage, I will never forget being downstairs on my own watching it on the TV.
But yet how much coverage do the numerous killings and terror attacks that occur throughout the middle east ever get? Is it because white people aren't getting killed? perhaps, but it seems possible.
Combined with the fact that we are now witnessing a recent and rather frightening rise of the far right, is it any wonder people are afraid of Muslims? No one literally gives a **** about the good things any muslim person does, but as soon as the 10% of muslims decide to use the religion to advance their own agenda all muslims are tarnished under the same brush...
Similar to the way that whenever a white person commits an act of mass terror, he is never labelled a terrorist, for example the killer of Jo Cox the MP...he was a far right extremist yet no one calls him a terrorist....erm why?! And whose to blame for this? The media, the government, society? I don't really know. Have we subconsciously agreed that only brown people who happen to be muslims can be terrorists?
So you ask why people are afraid of muslims, its simple... the 10% or so are responsible for labeling all muslims under the same name, the media therefore latches onto this and creates stories that appeal to the average person in the UK and across the world. We are told that muslims are the problem for everything and when papers like the daily mail which primarily appeal to working class people, publish an article on how all the local imam is secretly a ISIS sympathiser, is the uneducated reader really going to question the validity of the article? No, ofc not instead he believes all the lies he's been told and from henceforth becomes 'Islamophobic', and from here he is free to influence everyone around him including his kids and co-workers and so the viscous cycle continues. Did you also know that papers like the sun and the daily mail have actually been reporting false stories on muslims and have had to make public apologies in regards to their error, oh but you haven't heard that story have you?
I know i have made presumptions in this post, but they are unavoidable
But yet how much coverage do the numerous killings and terror attacks that occur throughout the middle east ever get? Is it because white people aren't getting killed? perhaps, but it seems possible.
Combined with the fact that we are now witnessing a recent and rather frightening rise of the far right, is it any wonder people are afraid of Muslims? No one literally gives a **** about the good things any muslim person does, but as soon as the 10% of muslims decide to use the religion to advance their own agenda all muslims are tarnished under the same brush...
Similar to the way that whenever a white person commits an act of mass terror, he is never labelled a terrorist, for example the killer of Jo Cox the MP...he was a far right extremist yet no one calls him a terrorist....erm why?! And whose to blame for this? The media, the government, society? I don't really know. Have we subconsciously agreed that only brown people who happen to be muslims can be terrorists?
So you ask why people are afraid of muslims, its simple... the 10% or so are responsible for labeling all muslims under the same name, the media therefore latches onto this and creates stories that appeal to the average person in the UK and across the world. We are told that muslims are the problem for everything and when papers like the daily mail which primarily appeal to working class people, publish an article on how all the local imam is secretly a ISIS sympathiser, is the uneducated reader really going to question the validity of the article? No, ofc not instead he believes all the lies he's been told and from henceforth becomes 'Islamophobic', and from here he is free to influence everyone around him including his kids and co-workers and so the viscous cycle continues. Did you also know that papers like the sun and the daily mail have actually been reporting false stories on muslims and have had to make public apologies in regards to their error, oh but you haven't heard that story have you?
I know i have made presumptions in this post, but they are unavoidable
I dislike things that go against common decency and have a opressive and violent culture, if they happen to be muslims so what, just because you are a religion you do not get a free pass to treat women,gays,non muslims and some other non true muslims badly.
No sensible person says that all muslims are evil terrorists but the majority of terrorists are muslim, islam needs reform as it is far from perfect and needs to become a more liberal society
No sensible person says that all muslims are evil terrorists but the majority of terrorists are muslim, islam needs reform as it is far from perfect and needs to become a more liberal society
(edited 7 years ago)
It means different things to different people. As far as TSR is concerned, to the most nationalistic Muslims on this site, it's effectively just another way of describing non-Muslims, since they fantasise about an ongoing existential struggle between (what they see as) truth and falsehood, and can often be seen describing what they believe is a vast conspiracy among non-Muslims to corrupt Islam/lead Muslims astray. 'The kuffar will only accept us if we abandon our religion', 'the kuffar this', 'the kuffar that.' That level of paranoia and delusion leads them to label anyone they don't like an Islamophobe, so it shouldn't surprise anyone if any estimate of Islamophobe numbers from them is in the billions.
More generally, it's to be expected. There are more terror attacks committed by Muslims than there used to be. Before 9/11 most people either didn't know about Islam or were in different to it. Now that an unfortunate association between Islam and terror that been impressed in the public consciousness, it's going to be hard to expunge it - something that isn't helped by some of the walking, talking contradictions that have posted thus far.
More generally, it's to be expected. There are more terror attacks committed by Muslims than there used to be. Before 9/11 most people either didn't know about Islam or were in different to it. Now that an unfortunate association between Islam and terror that been impressed in the public consciousness, it's going to be hard to expunge it - something that isn't helped by some of the walking, talking contradictions that have posted thus far.
Original post by AperfectBalance
I dislike things that go against common decency and have a opressive and violent culture
Man you must really hate the west then.
Please just shut your mouth.
Original post by AishaGirl
If you lived in America would you fear gun owners just because a small handful of gun owners went on shooting sprees?
I seriously doubt Germany is asking their women to cover up... Link your sources. Also with regards to gay rights and women's right etc we don't concern ourselves with your affairs and you should not concern yourself with our affairs. You say gay marriage is ok, we say it's not... What's the problem?
We don't write the laws of Allah swt.
I seriously doubt Germany is asking their women to cover up... Link your sources. Also with regards to gay rights and women's right etc we don't concern ourselves with your affairs and you should not concern yourself with our affairs. You say gay marriage is ok, we say it's not... What's the problem?
We don't write the laws of Allah swt.
There's a few things to understand here: firstly, this is obviously a more extreme interpretation of the religion and not held by the majority of people; secondly, they are often heavy drinkers (for example), and are obvious targets for radicalisation. Evidently, more work needs to be done domestically to prevent this. But not every drunk, socially disconnected man decides to shoot up a public place. It has been almost exclusively Muslims who have done this, and parts of the Qur'an justify it, as stated above. Surveys have been done which often show that not-insignificant portions of the Muslim population "sympathise" with the attackers, and a small percentage even support them.
General regressive, illiberal attitudes displayed in the Middle East, like honour killings, beatings, forcing women to cover up regardless of whether they want to or not, and imprisoning or killing homosexuals - and these views are apparently widespread - show a further disconnect between Islam and the Western world. 'Moderate' speakers have come out and said that you should only beat your wife "if she disobeys you". Well, that's okay then!! But apparently criticising things like this is bigoted.
Here's a quote from your holy book, if you want direct evidence:
Qur'an 4:34 (Shakir)—Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.
And here's an example of some clerics being considerate, recommending only 'light' beating: http://www.dawn.com/news/1260803
Farzana Bari, a human rights activist did object, but I doubt they will listen to her because she's a woman.
Admittedly it was only in a Bavarian school, and I apologise if my original comment was misleading because I thought it was more widespread, but the principle is still the same. It's essentially compromising the freedom of native Germans, so as to respect Middle Eastern 'culture' (i.e. misogyny). This was the most reputable source I could find, but if you search there are numerous other ones, but some of them looked a bit too right wing for me (and of course the left didn't even bother reporting on it!)
https://www.thelocal.de/20150626/refugee-school-calls-for-uniform-modesty
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Wow, that was longer than expected! To answer the latter half of your post, of course you are entitled to believe this. I am simply stating why Westerners are hostile to Islam, with some direct evidence from your scripture and clerics. So next time, if there is any confusion as to why people don't like 'cultural enrichment', we can refer back to here! Oh and yes, I noticed you avoided replying to the Charlie Hebdo reference.
Original post by AperfectBalance
islam needs reform as it is far from perfect and needs to become a more liberal society
Muslims deserve it : and it is happening, but very, very slowly, and not everywhere
as to "Islamophobia", if it means opposing the political/social agenda of Islam and its doctrines with regard to gender segregation, relations between Muslims and non-Muslims, State and Religion, legal rights for women in marriage, divorce, inheritance, rights for apostates and homosexuals, torture and cruel physical punishments, it is in my view highly commendable
if it means discriminating Muslims as persons, it is wrong
best
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by AishaGirl
Man you must really hate the west then.
Please just shut your mouth.
Please just shut your mouth.
Most of the middle east is a mess at the moment and is a warzone, we have to take a stand, sure we may have made some mistakes but do not think that before the wars that the middle east was a peaceful society.
What about all the muslims Living in places like the Uk and the rest of europe that polls show they are far more against gays and other things I have mentioned before?
Original post by AishaGirl
Man you must really hate the west then.
Please just shut your mouth.
Please just shut your mouth.
Yeah, a lot of rational westerners do. The majority of the UK was against the war in Iraq, it was protested by millions. I can hate what western powers have done to other regions as well as not agree with the ideology of those regions at the same time.
That alt-right guy in America who took a sucker punch to the face recently, I don't like his views, I also don't like the individual that confronted them with violence either.
Original post by Count Bezukhov
A gunman isn't going to shoot-up a public area simply because they own a gun. Islamic terrorist attacks are explicitly linked to their religion, in that they usually go down the line of shouting "God is great", declare allegiance to ISIS, etc etc, and this is justified by the tenets of jihad.
I absolutely promise you that more people die from mass shootings by non Muslims than from terrorism in the united states.
So you should fear gun owners MORE than Muslims.
In fact in general you should fear non muslims more than muslims as your chances of being killed by a non muslim is far greater than by a muslim. Simply by the ratio of non muslims to muslims, in the west at least anyway.
Original post by BusyStarGazing
Because the west is controlled by a media that is only concerned about the needs of the west.
"The west is controlled by the media".
Be careful though, the media police could come and get you for exposing the truth!
Original post by BigYoSpeck
Yeah, a lot of rational westerners do. The majority of the UK was against the war in Iraq, it was protested by millions.
And yet they still invaded Iraq and killed hundreds of thousands of people. Tell me again how the publics opinion matters in a democratic country?
When it comes to war, the citizens have NO voice.
Original post by Josb
"The west is controlled by the media".
Be careful though, the media police could come and get you for exposing the truth!
Be careful though, the media police could come and get you for exposing the truth!
Believe what you want! it's ok petal to be scared of the truth
Original post by AishaGirl
Man you must really hate the west then.
Please just shut your mouth.
Please just shut your mouth.
are you familiar with the term "whataboutery" ?
best
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by AishaGirl
And yet they still invaded Iraq and killed hundreds of thousands of people. Tell me again how the publics opinion matters in a democratic country?
When it comes to war, the citizens have NO voice.
When it comes to war, the citizens have NO voice.
Most of the deaths in Iraq were caused by the civil war that followed the American invasion. The war itself was pretty short.
The civil war involved Shia and Sunni militias killing each others. The overwhelming majority of Iraqis killed since 2003 were killed by other Muslims.
Original post by BigYoSpeck
Yeah, a lot of rational westerners do. The majority of the UK was against the war in Iraq, it was protested by millions. I can hate what western powers have done to other regions as well as not agree with the ideology of those regions at the same time.
That alt-right guy in America who took a sucker punch to the face recently, I don't like his views, I also don't like the individual that confronted them with violence either.
That alt-right guy in America who took a sucker punch to the face recently, I don't like his views, I also don't like the individual that confronted them with violence either.
still hilarious to see him get decked
Original post by BusyStarGazing
Similar to the way that whenever a white person commits an act of mass terror, he is never labelled a terrorist, for example the killer of Jo Cox the MP...
Irish people, who are predominantly white, suffered the same association with terrorism during the Troubles. The killer of Jo Cox is rightly referred to as an assassin - that is what he is. A targeted killing is not the same thing as indiscriminately shooting up a Christmas market.
the media therefore latches onto this and creates stories that appeal to the average person in the UK and across the world. We are told that muslims are the problem for everything and when papers like the daily mail which primarily appeal to working class people, publish an article on how all the local imam is secretly a ISIS sympathiser, is the uneducated reader really going to question the validity of the article? No, ofc not instead he believes all the lies he's been told and from henceforth becomes 'Islamophobic', and from here he is free to influence everyone around him including his kids and co-workers and so the viscous cycle continues.
Did you also know that papers like the sun and the daily mail have actually been reporting false stories on muslims and have had to make public apologies in regards to their error, oh but you haven't heard that story have you?
Some valid points, but why do you believe that the Sun and the Mail are representative of the whole media? I would say the great problem of our time is sectionalism - everybody simply wants to advance their own narrow interests. That's evident from your generalisation about the media - you cite the Sun and the Mail, but neglect to mention the Independent, or the Huffington Post, or the Guardian. All of those would take the wind right out of your argument that there is an organised media conspiracy against your interest group (Muslims).
Regarding false stories, I would just say that quite a number of instances of anti-Muslim crimes have later been found to be fabricated. But did you know of that before I told you? I expect not. The truth is almost always more complicated than a story about a wholly good guy and a wholly bad guy.
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by AishaGirl
And yet they still invaded Iraq and killed hundreds of thousands of people. Tell me again how the publics opinion matters in a democratic country?
When it comes to war, the citizens have NO voice.
When it comes to war, the citizens have NO voice.
The thing is though the violent actions that western powers do isn't my ideology. I protest against what they do because they're wrong. So to direct any hate or anger towards me as a westerner who objects would be irrational.
A Muslim does follow the ideology of Islam, an ideology that contains violence. It's rational there for if you disagree with the ideology, to direct that sentiment towards a Muslim who follows it.
Original post by AishaGirl
I absolutely promise you that more people die from mass shootings by non Muslims than from terrorism in the united states.
So you should fear gun owners MORE than Muslims.
In fact in general you should fear non muslims more than muslims as your chances of being killed by a non muslim is far greater than by a muslim. Simply by the ratio of non muslims to muslims, in the west at least anyway.
So you should fear gun owners MORE than Muslims.
In fact in general you should fear non muslims more than muslims as your chances of being killed by a non muslim is far greater than by a muslim. Simply by the ratio of non muslims to muslims, in the west at least anyway.
And dealing in absolutes doesn't account for the fact that a higher percentage of terror attacks, at least in recent years, have been perpetrated by Muslims. Or the fact that such regressive attitudes are generally held by most people in the Middle East.
Anyway, can you justify that quote from the Qur'an, please? You're a girl yourself, do you find it justified that you're worth less than a male in your own religion? Were the Charlie Hebdo attackers right to 'defend the prophet', and in so doing curb the right of the French to free speech? Is it right that German school girls were asked to cover up to not offend the 'culture' of refugees? Is it right that homosexuals are often killed in the Middle East, for something that they cannot control?
Please answer, because if you don't denounce each of these I'll just assume that you agree with them. And if you do agree, then you've answered the question of why there is conflict between Islam and the West.
Islamophobia is a contrived term. There is nothing wrong with being Islamophobic. Islam is a set of ideas, and like any set of ideas it deserved to debated and criticised. The whole concept of Islamophobia makes absolutely zero sense. Why should it be wrong to dislike certain ideas within the Quran or the Hadiths? If someone disagrees with Islam why must they be branded a bigot? Islamophobia in my opinion is a buzzword that is used to silence any criticism of Islam.
However, discriminating against Muslims is wrong. And I would condemn anyone doing so.
However, discriminating against Muslims is wrong. And I would condemn anyone doing so.
(edited 7 years ago)
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