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Original post by Josb
She's not implying it...


In Islam, a woman is not property but she is considered to be important for providing for the family and taking care of her children. Meanwhile, the man is not property either but he as well has responsibilities, such as providing an income to the household and teaching the children and making decisions for the family.
Original post by Plantagenet Crown
It's typical Islamic rhetoric, they try and make out that anyone who isn't Muslim can't possibly understand Islam when TSR consistently shows that it's the non-Muslims who generally know more about Islamic theology than the Muslims.

As an apostate you probably have it worse because as well as being "ignorant" you were probably "never a true Muslim" according to them either.


A Muslim knows far more than a non-Muslim about Islam, just like a doctor knows far more about a random person about health and a teacher knows far more about their subject than the student.
I'm sorry, but your point is just ridiculous in my opinion.

An apostate is someone who hates Islam. They never knew anything about Islam and were influenced by their own desires instead of submitting to Allah. Therefore, they are indeed ignorant.
Original post by Rhythmical
I think you will find it's been the other way round, you making bold statements claiming that non Muslims men are not righteous and then not backing your claims, and then stating that the non Muslims on this thread do not posses the knowledge to understand Islam when in fact you are in no way to judge those who are non Muslims and state that your men are better.


Original post by Plantagenet Crown
Again, just showing how insane and irrational your imaginary god is, who punishes people for things he himself has done.

You are denying reality if you say that no non-Muslim men are righteous. Where is your evidence for this bold statement?


I think '@MiszShortee786' is acting incredibly naive and from this beyond ridiculous argument is quite limited in knowledge.

First off let me clear that Muslims are no better that Non-Muslims as Non-Muslims are no better than Muslims, as a Muslim I was lucky enough to be taught that (fresh from the Hadith).
With regards to the issue of 'not understanding' Islam. I don't really think that's the problem.
Although Islam is a complicated system like any other religion, I think it's the characteristics tangential to British Muslims today that are far more complicated and more easily understood, by people struggling the same hardships.

For example, if I make the innocent assumption that the OP is an ethnic minority or child of one, this brings in a whole sh*tload of more issues to consider.
I speak from experience, it's not explaining my religion, to my non-Muslim friends that's the difficult part; the issue lies in telling my same friends:
I can't walk through an Asian neighbourhood with a girl of any race/religion because of how fast news will travel and how my whole family name will be dishonoured at the rest of the community will look down on me.
Or that I couldn't stay out later than a certain time otherwise I'd have 30 missed calls and a stern mother waiting with a sandal in her hand :lol:.
Though my examples are very simple and basic, some issues can be more delicate to talk about, the culture set by first-generation Muslim migrants truly is toxic and really doesn't help any of the modern issues Islam faces today.

With regards to the OPs post,
Although strict guidelines have been set for relationships in Islam; Islam does not teach force and only God can judge you when the time comes.
Do what's best for you and makes you happiest.

Note: Islam touches each corner of the globe with Muslims coming in every colour and shape, this includes cultures and upbringing.
My girlfriend doesn't wear a hijab and I don't really care for the approval of my parents (even though they would still approve).
My opinion, if you make the (rather dumb) move of leaving your boyfriend because he's not a Muslim, you'll feel crappy just like any other break-up. But I'm sure you'll still find someone muslim or not.

Peace
Original post by BigTraderBoi
A Muslim knows far more than a non-Muslim about Islam, just like a doctor knows far more about a random person about health and a teacher knows far more about their subject than the student.
I'm sorry, but your point is just ridiculous in my opinion.

An apostate is someone who hates Islam. They never knew anything about Islam and were influenced by their own desires instead of submitting to Allah. Therefore, they are indeed ignorant.


Incorrect. Belonging to a faith in no way means a believer will always know more then a non-believer. That's a blatantly fallacious comment to make which can easily be disproved by noting the existence of atheist theologians.

And here we go, the No true Scotsman fallacy. Hating Islam and leaving it has no bearing whatsoever on knowledge. Many Muslims leave the religion after actually reading the Quran properly and seeing it for what it truly is.
Original post by BigTraderBoi
A Muslim knows far more than a non-Muslim about Islam, just like a doctor knows far more about a random person about health and a teacher knows far more about their subject than the student.
I'm sorry, but your point is just ridiculous in my opinion.

An apostate is someone who hates Islam. They never knew anything about Islam and were influenced by their own desires instead of submitting to Allah. Therefore, they are indeed ignorant.


Wow, how can you claim that without knowing anything? That's ignorant on your part and just shows how much you attack those for leaving the religion. I'm sorry if I lost my faith and decided to become an agnostic but it really isn't any of your business to judge me or anyone for that matter for making that choice and claiming that they had no knowledge of the religion they denounced.
Original post by Plantagenet Crown
Incorrect. Belonging to a faith in no way means a believer will always know more then a non-believer. That's a blatantly fallacious comment to make which can easily be disproved by noting the existence of atheist theologians.

And here we go, the No true Scotsman fallacy. Hating Islam and leaving it has no bearing whatsoever on knowledge. Many Muslims leave the religion after actually reading the Quran properly and seeing it for what it truly is.


if they saw it for what it truly is, then they wouldn't have
Original post by BigTraderBoi
if they saw it for what it truly is, then they wouldn't have


No. Just because you see it one way doesn't mean everyone does.
Original post by BigBadAsh
I think '@MiszShortee786' is acting incredibly naive and from this beyond ridiculous argument is quite limited in knowledge.

First off let me clear that Muslims are no better that Non-Muslims as Non-Muslims are no better than Muslims, as a Muslim I was lucky enough to be taught that (fresh from the Hadith).
With regards to the issue of 'not understanding' Islam. I don't really think that's the problem.
Although Islam is a complicated system like any other religion, I think it's the characteristics tangential to British Muslims today that are far more complicated and more easily understood, by people struggling the same hardships.

For example, if I make the innocent assumption that the OP is an ethnic minority or child of one, this brings in a whole sh*tload of more issues to consider.
I speak from experience, it's not explaining my religion, to my non-Muslim friends that's the difficult part; the issue lies in telling my same friends:
I can't walk through an Asian neighbourhood with a girl of any race/religion because of how fast news will travel and how my whole family name will be dishonoured at the rest of the community will look down on me.
Or that I couldn't stay out later than a certain time otherwise I'd have 30 missed calls and a stern mother waiting with a sandal in her hand :lol:.
Though my examples are very simple and basic, some issues can be more delicate to talk about, the culture set by first-generation Muslim migrants truly is toxic and really doesn't help any of the modern issues Islam faces today.

With regards to the OPs post,
Although strict guidelines have been set for relationships in Islam; Islam does not teach force and only God can judge you when the time comes.
Do what's best for you and makes you happiest.

Note: Islam touches each corner of the globe with Muslims coming in every colour and shape, this includes cultures and upbringing.
My girlfriend doesn't wear a hijab and I don't really care for the approval of my parents (even though they would still approve).
My opinion, if you make the (rather dumb) move of leaving your boyfriend because he's not a Muslim, you'll feel crappy just like any other break-up. But I'm sure you'll still find someone muslim or not.

Peace


Thanks for your opinion which would not affect me in anyway @BigBadAsh. Just to let you know I am a SOK. Thats not to boast or anything however that only means that I do know where I am coming from in terms of my religion and 'limited knowledge'. What you have done above is mix culture and religion together. Now whos Naive? Its like music and the Holy Quraan it will never entwine with each other just like culture and religion. You also dont make sense. Shows whos actually quite limited in knowledge,
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by Rhythmical
Wow, how can you claim that without knowing anything? That's ignorant on your part and just shows how much you attack those for leaving the religion. I'm sorry if I lost my faith and decided to become an agnostic but it really isn't any of your business to judge me or anyone for that matter for making that choice and claiming that they had no knowledge of the religion they denounced.


If one has left Islam,they have already attacked Islam and the Ummah, so I can attack their beliefs as well.
You were likely influenced by the media, society and the lies you've heard. Not by Islam
Original post by BigTraderBoi
If one has left Islam,they have already attacked Islam and the Ummah, so I can attack their beliefs as well.
You were likely influenced by the media, society and the lies you've heard. Not by Islam


Again, stop with these remarks. You don't know me, you can't tell me I've been brainwashed by the media because I left Islam. Like Planta said, just because you see it one way, doesn't mean anyone else should either. No one could force me to stay in Islam, this took me a number of years to get to this stage and believe me, last summer I tried very hard to keep my faith and try to make things work and it didn't; so you can't tell me that I was influenced.
Original post by Plantagenet Crown
Incorrect. Belonging to a faith in no way means a believer will always know more then a non-believer. That's a blatantly fallacious comment to make which can easily be disproved by noting the existence of atheist theologians.

And here we go, the No true Scotsman fallacy. Hating Islam and leaving it has no bearing whatsoever on knowledge. Many Muslims leave the religion after actually reading the Quran properly and seeing it for what it truly is.


And many people also enter it daily. :smile:

So whos actually at lost?
I understand. I'm Christian and married to a non Christian. And have been for a looong time
He respects my belief and I respect his right not to
I don't see why any of that is a sin
What's more important is a good solid loving respectful relationship. I'm pretty sure God approves
After all, it didn't work for your mum and dad did it?
Original post by BigTraderBoi
If one has left Islam,they have already attacked Islam and the Ummah, so I can attack their beliefs as well.
You were likely influenced by the media, society and the lies you've heard. Not by Islam


How dare you make such a bold claim about someone you don't know? Practise humility, little boy - you are in no position to attack @Rhythmical for her decision to leave Islam. Don't assume anything.
Original post by SinsNotTragedies
How dare you make such a bold claim about someone you don't know? Practise humility, little boy - you are in no position to attack @Rhythmical for her decision to leave Islam. Don't assume anything.

I'm not attacking the person, I am attacking their belief. And apostates already attack Islam and the umma with their action. If anything, i am being kind
Original post by BigTraderBoi
A Muslim knows far more than a non-Muslim about Islam, just like a doctor knows far more about a random person about health and a teacher knows far more about their subject than the student.
I'm sorry, but your point is just ridiculous in my opinion.


I'd probably agree the average Muslim knows more about Islam, than the average non-Muslim, but I'd shy away from equating the formers knowledge about Islam to be thorough, as you seem to be implying with your doctor/teacher analogy.

An apostate is someone who hates Islam.

Not necessarily, just particular interpretations that are violent, oppressive, harmful, such as those that justify the persecution of apostates/blasphemers.

They never knew anything about Islam


Fallacious. I think most apostates know something about Islam, certainly I do.

and were influenced by their own desires instead of submitting to Allah. Therefore, they are indeed ignorant.

I and I'm sure many other apostates did desire to seek the truth and after scrutinising the veracity of the claims of Islam, such as it's deity, I was not convinced of Islam and presently regard it to be false.

Though I understand a Muslim is someone who believes Islam to be "prefect", thus not anytime soon will Muslims accept there being valid reasons to leave the religion and imply/state that it is false and flawed. Thus they need to rationalize the presence of disbelief and of critics, via such erroneous statements as..."You left because you were ignorant of my true Islam/You left for material pleasures/you're arrogant/God has sealed your heart/God guides whom he wills/God has created many of Mankind and jinn for hell" etc
Original post by MiszShortee786
Thanks for your opinion which would not affect me in anyway @BigBadAsh. Just to let you know I am a SOK. Thats not to boast or anything however that only means that I do know where I am coming from in terms of my religion. What you have done above is mix culture and religion together. Now whos Naive? Its like music and the Holy Quraan it will never entwine with each other just like culture and religion.


I have no idea what a 'SOK' is, and no interest in it either. The point I made attacked you in no way/shape/form.
I don't doubt your 'religious knowledge', however you did state earlier Muslims can not marry outside the faith,
when actually a Muslim man can marry a Jewish/Christian woman.
very basic knowledge.

And I haven't mixed them together, actually I've done the opposite.
Clearly, the OP is struggling from cultural issues and has had ideas shoved down her throat that are wrong, like she wont be liked because she doesn't wear a hijab.
A huge problem in Islam today is the association the media makes of (horrible) cultures that exist in Southern Asia and the Middle East.

The arguments you've made are ridiculous and are heading completely off topic from what was originally asked.
Original post by SinsNotTragedies
How dare you make such a bold claim about someone you don't know? Practise humility, little boy - you are in no position to attack @Rhythmical for her decision to leave Islam. Don't assume anything.


And its perfectly fine for you guys to sit here dictating Islam to us? Like its all false? Under what basis? Like everyone questions us Muslims let me retrack that question back at you. Wheres your evidence for Islam being a made up religion?
Original post by Plantagenet Crown
No. Just because you see it one way doesn't mean everyone does.


There is only one way of seeing it that is right. You can attempt to see it differently but you would still be wrong. You can believe that 2+2=233 but you'd still be wrong at the end of the day
Original post by BigTraderBoi
I'm not attacking the person, I am attacking their belief. And apostates already attack Islam and the umma with their action. If anything, i am being kind


You are very stupid. You say apostates are 'ignorant' (in the quote below), this is an attack on her constitution. Never mind the fact that apostates might just be the enlightened ones, having considered Islam and rejected it.

Original post by BigTraderBoi

An apostate is someone who hates Islam. They never knew anything about Islam and were influenced by their own desires instead of submitting to Allah. Therefore, they are indeed ignorant.
Original post by BigTraderBoi
There is only one way of seeing it that is right. You can attempt to see it differently but you would still be wrong. You can believe that 2+2=233 but you'd still be wrong at the end of the day


Nonsense. Don't compare how someone feels about an ideology to a maths equation because they are clearly not the same. The fact there are so many different Islamic sects and interpretations is obvious proof that there is not only one way of seeing things.

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