Is Nicki Minaj a feminist icon?

I said she's an icon in a niche, not that she's a niche artist.

I said being influential is part of being an icon.

That doesn't show a dramatic change.

Even if I agreed that still isn't revolutionary

Link? Still wouldn't be revolutionary.

Link? You mean the performance the producer of the Grammys for the past 35 years called a disappointment?

These things aren't revolutionary they're achievements. Drawing a lot of rappers away from talking about drugs and guns is revolutionary, a rapper doing an album like 808 is revolutionary, becoming as much a businessman as a rapper is revolutionary (I'm not referencing Kanye on this)

Well of course you'd say that, you're a fan.

Interrupting a speech isn't disrespecting artistry nor is thinking someone else made a better album

What has he done against what Jesus stands for?

That doesn't make you a hypocrite, it means you lied.

Everyone has done hypocritical things but you said he's probably the biggest hypocrite of our time.

Pirate bay can also be used to legally download. Going on pirate bay doesn't mean you've downloaded anything.


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You said that I like niches.
So she's not a niche artist to you?

So why is it so hard for you to just say that Nicki Minaj is an influential rap icon? You haven't said that sentence once.

If you've accomplished something that no female rapper ever has then that is a dramatic change.

Which other female rapper has had arguably the best verse in a song that featured two of the biggest rap icons of our time?

Then why do you want a link?

Why was it a disappointment?
& What do you want a link for?

By definition, revolutionary means "involving or causing a complete or dramatic change". she has done many things that have involved a dramatic change.
If you're not referencing him on that definition, then what makes Kanye West revolutionary?

It's true though. If you've left a huge stamp on your industry and have surpassed all of the prior artists in your field, you will be remembered.

Rudely interrupting an artist to say that they didn't deserve to win and then admitting that you had never actually listened to their winning album isn't disrespecting their artistry?

Do you think that Jesus stands for misogyny? Do you think he stands for glorifying drugs? What about Music videos featuring decapitated women?

Doing something that you told someone else not to do makes you a hypocrite.

Because he is.
If not the biggest, he's high up there.

If you want to believe that then okay. I don't think he's made a comment about it

Because she hasn't fulfilled the other requirements for being an icon in my opinion. She hasn't smashed records, she isn't outselling everyone else, she hasn't been cited as an influence by other top rappers, she hasn't changed or popularised anything new in rap.

The accomplishment is selling albums/singles - musicians have done that for a very long time so it's not revolutionary, it's just exceeding a group who came before you. Usain Bolt setting the 100m world record for the first time wasn't a revolution, repeatedly breaking it is revolutionary because sprinters didn't really do that before, see the difference?

Being the first person to do maybe do something isn't revolutionary.

Because I Googled it and couldn't find an article that mentioned it so I'm having doubts about it even being true.

You'll have to ask him that, the quote in the article was quite vague. A link that shows that Nicki Minaj was the first female artist to perform at the Grammys, don't worry though Britney Spears did it when Nicki Minaj was still in High School.

You haven't actually said anything she's done that has been a dramatic change.

But it's a niche field (female rap is a niche of rap) that I don't think many people are that fussed about.

To be relevant in the future I think she'll need to be seen in the same light as the most popular and best rappers ever not just the best female.

No, I'd say he probably (somewhat ignorantly) thought Beyonce's album was so good nothing could beat it. That's not disrespectful to them, it says more about how highly he thought of Beyonce's album.

Well the Bible goes above and beyond misogyny. It also wouldn't make Kanye a hypocrite to call himself Black Jesus and then do unbiblical things.

He didn't tell other people not to launch on Apple Music, he said he wouldn't then went back on it meaning he lied.

So far you've come up with one example

Innocent until proven guilty.

She had outsold every female rapper to date, that's not smashing records?
She has been cited by Kanye west as having arguably the best verse on the best hip hop album of all time. He felt so threatened by it that he considered taking her verse off the song. That is remarkable.

Ridiculous.

She had outsold every female rapper to date, that's not smashing records?
She has been cited by Kanye west as having arguably the best verse on the best hip hop album of all time. He felt so threatened by it that he considered taking her verse off the song. That is remarkable.

You can't create your own definition of revolutionary.
She made a remarkable difference/change to female rap culture and repeatedly won awards for her achievements = revolutionary.

What do you think revolutionary means?

She said it in an interview with Angie Martinez.

She was the First female rapper to have a solo performance at the Grammys which again marks dramatic change so by definition, that is also revolutionary.

I have but you don't want to acknowledge it.

If you were the first male in the world to achieve 12 A* grades at GCSE level,
1. Why would you feel proud of that?
2. Would you call it revolutionary?

What do you mean by niche of rap?

Like I said, it is hypocritical to tell someone not to do something that you did. In this instance, don't tell someone to respect the artistry if you cannot respect their artistry. Kanye admitted that he was a hypocrite for this anyway so I'm not going to try and convince you any longer.

Jesus said its okay to be misogynistic did he?
Jesus says it's okay to tell drug dealers to 'stack ya money up' ?

no, he told them that his album will not be available on Apple or anywhere else & that it would only be available on tidal. He then says that we should just allow kids to enjoy the music and that there shouldn't be any beef between apple and tidal but he amplified that beef by refusing to allow apple to stream his album. He's also not allowing the 'kids to enjoy the music' if he's only allowing it to be streamed from one outlet.

More than one.
In regard to the illegal downloading thing, I have just seen a video of him being bombarded by the paps and they asked him about it, to which he replied 'I'm a hypocrite bro'.
Suppose he's not so innocent after all..
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-3477477/Kanye-West-arrives-LA-wearing-tattered-jeans-Paris-Fashion-Week.html

I meant general records not niche records. Let's see her outdo Drake or Kanye then we'll say she's an icon. In fact let her even just win a Grammy. Yes, if true that is remarkable but there's no change to the norm.

I don't need to create my own definition, I very clearly explained the definition to you. Doing what people have done before you but to a better standard isn't revolutionary.



You think that if somebody has maybe done something that counts as revolutionary, that is so obviously wrong.

You still haven't posted a link to it yet.

Oh yeah first female rapper, not the first female solo performer. There you go again with the niches. It doesn't mark a dramatic change, women had performed at the Grammys, other rappers had performed at the Grammys.

You've given examples of things she's done to a higher standard but they're all things that have been done before.

My GCSEs weren't far off of that but I can honestly say I don't care so no, I wouldn't say I'd feel proud of that. GCSEs are like BET awards: meaningless. I also wouldn't call it revolutionary, it would just mean I did the same thing other people had done (get good exam grades) but do it to an ever better standard.

Well we disagree on whether he disrespected their artistry or not.

Not to my memory but he essentially condones infanticide, genocide, homophobia and filicide so in the grand scheme of things Kanye's a choir boy.

But Pablo was available on Apple Music about two days after Tidal.

Two hypocritical actions makes someone the biggest hypocrite of our time...why don't you just accept that statement was going over the top?


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Let's define revolutionary: involving or causing a complete or dramatic change.
She has been both involved in and caused a dramatic change in female rap so by definition, she is revolutionary.

You clearly don't know what icon means so here's the definition:

A person or thing regarded as a representative symbol.
As of right now, she is the biggest representation of female rap, therefore she is an icon.
A person doesn't have to win a Grammy or outsell Kanye and drake to be an icon.

Let's define revolutionary: involving or causing a complete or dramatic change.
She has been both involved in and caused a dramatic change in female rap so by definition, she is revolutionary.

Use your fingers and type in Nicki Minaj interview with Angus Martinez on YouTube. It's quite a long interview but she discusses Beyoncé in the first few minutes of it.

No other female rapper had performed, so it does mark a dramatic change.
Obama is revolutionary for being the first African American president of the USA. He wasn't the first president nor was he the first male, but he made revolutionary history.

Not by another female rapper. That's my point.

by definition, it would be revolutionary.
That's very unfortunate to think that if a child of yours was to get the best GCSE results in history, you wouldn't feel proud of them.

He definitely did, but okay

bolded is interesting.
Source?

With his permission?

I don't know if he is the biggest, but he is up there.
& just because you think that the Beck incident wasn't hypocritical, doesn't make you right, does it. ?
Especially if Kanye himself acknowledged that obvious hypocrisy

You do know different dictionaries will give you different definitions of words? I'm pretty happy with how I've defined 'icon'. In my view to be considered iconic you have to match the achievements of other icons which is why I've set the bar at Drake/Kanye.



What dramatic change has she caused in female rap? Outdoing other people isn't a dramatic change.



The beginning of this interview has reminded me of how she so blatantly ripped of Jay Z's album name . So everything she says in interviews I should take as gospel truth but the stuff she says in her songs I can assume aren't true?



You're changing it, Obama is significant because he's the first African-American President. He isn't the first president but he's significant for being the first African-American president. She wasn't the first female or the first rapper. It's also laughable that you're equating someone becoming president to someone performing at an award ceremony, one is iconic and the other isn't.



Outside of selling perfume and performing at an award ceremony you have named anything she's done that no other female rapper has done before. You're so focused on keeping her in this niche.



No it wouldn't, it would be doing the same thing that lots of other people have done (getting GCSEs) but doing it to a higher standard.



He definitely didn't but okay (I can behave like a seven year old too)



The Bible, use your hands and look through the Bible.



Yes otherwise Apple would have been sued for astronomical sums of money.



My seven year old cousin recently acknowledged that he's the best footballer in the world.

You're clearly just an over invested fan who can't actually respond objectively. You're so determined to make her an icon that you're trying to make her so niche (not a music icon, not a rap icon but a female rap icon).

I have a suggestion for an even bigger hypocrite: Nicki Minaj - supposedly talks about feminism all the time yet makes songs that are essentially glorify the antithesis of feminism and is such an activist yet when her brother is charged with raping a kid she stays silent.

I'll assume from that this case is closed


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Yeah it certainly is

Finally


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Yes I've had enough of arguing with a stranger

Don't get involved in debates if you don't like debates


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I'll just be sure not to quote you again, since you like to have week long debates