Best Math Universities outside of COWI

Yeah reputation should not be such a major factor but, I think it is important to be honest with yourself and go for things that mean something to you. The fact is prestige does matter to me.

My Uncle is a professor of chemistry at a university not exactly the best university certainly not Russel group though I don't know of the top of my head which university it is. Anyway he writes me off a lot and when I mentioned I want to go to a COWI university he said outright I can rule three of those out. We can guess which three.

Of course He strikes me as been pompous and speaking utter crap. For example he said Bristol are not a top 100 university so I might stand a chance at them maybe they scrape into the top 200 apparently (in the world). However he also said the best sources for this are the times higher education League tables and the Shanghai Rankings.

In the times University guide 2018 (of course I would buy that) Bristol came 48th in the world. in the Shanghai rankings they came 57th. Now I am not going to draw attention away from the central point of this thread arguing whether Bristol are or are not in fact a world top 100. I think they are every league table I have seen puts them there, but regardless if your going to say they are barely top 200 then cite sources that say they are around 50th then you kind of lose credibility.

So maybe I should not listen to him when he says where I can and cant get in. its just people like him everywhere who write me off and are so quick to say yeah you cant ever get in there, and then their is always the part of me that fears they may be right.

so prestige is something that means a lot to me, and it will affect my happiness at university so I should take it into account. That been said obviously I don't want to risk doing this to the extent that I choose a course I am unhappy on over a course I am happy on.

Of course looking at the course the area of the university and the life etc is an important factor. But I think the Prestige thing becomes a given if we eliminate the Elite Prestige. What I mean by that is just under 35% of all mathematical courses ask for AAA+ which basically means I need 3 A grades or better to avoid been miserable.

with 3 A grades only I could go to Strathclyde, Swansea, Sussex, Loughborough or Surrey. However obviously I would not be happy at these. Alternatively Southampton and Manchester would appear much stronger options here.

obviously the dream is ending up at Oxbridge but I don't see them making an offer suppose it can't hurt to apply if I get A*A* does Oxford ask everyone to take the MAT then decide on who they interview from that?



yeah its not a bad idea but if I went to Singapore I would not graduate from university or come back any time soon I would likely end up in Prison. I think they have Blaspheme laws and I am not the best at holding my tongue.

Hong Kong seems like an option however my younger brother lives in Hong Kong which would mean listening to him complain about Trump 6 times a day seriously he never lets it go, and it just gets old after a while.

its more affordable then the US like you said however they are still more expensive then the UK and the living costs are high in Hong Kong. from quick googling the exchange rate it appears it would cost me £14,600 a year. Unless somehow UK counts as been local because we leased Hong Kong for a large period of time in which case £4200 which would make it an attractive option in that case.

Would their courses be English?

If it is important to you and you'd be happier there then go for it. Also **** your uncle, he cites THE https://www.timeshighereducation.com/world-university-rankings/2017/world-ranking#!/page/0/length/25/locations/GB/sort_by/rank/sort_order/asc/cols/stats (times higher education, which is not the same as times university guide) as one of the best guides (I agree it probably is, but even that isn't/should be seen as gold standard, all guides have a huge element of BS in them, THE is just seems less BS than the others, QS is another good one), well Bristol is a top 100 (71) in that guide, maybe he is jealous or something. Seriously, just **** people who will put you down like that man.

I've literally no idea about Oxbridge selection processes, that door was closed to me long before I took my GCSEs so it isn't something I've looked into. Someone else on this site will know, there are lots of Oxbridge applicants/students here.

To answer your question about foreign universities, you'll find the majority of courses at decent overseas universities these days tend to be in English or will at least have international programmes. When you think about it, say Thailand for example, teaching only in Thai limits their student population to Thai speakers, offering English courses opens the doors to many more students given English is essentially a universal language. Across Europe, France, Germany, Netherlands etc will offer English courses, same for HK, Singapore, Japan, China, Korea, etc it just depends on who willing you are to go overseas, it is obviously more hassle in organising visas, flights, finance etc, in the UK it is a matter of a UCAS application and an SFE application, then you're done.

Japan and Korea are a bit more complicated and almost definitely won't have what OP is looking for but yes essentially you are right For Korea I think the only university that OP would be interested in is KAIST and that programme and university are complete and utter hell... I would never suggest that anyone go to KAIST. UTokyo, UKyoto, and Keio don't have programmes in Mathematics in English.

Waseda does but it doesn't have that great of a global reputation and it's honestly better for Languages and Humanities then for sciences.

I will link the Waseda programmes below though but I doubt OP is interested:

http://www.fse.sci.waseda.ac.jp/en/intl-prog/

https://www.waseda.jp/fsci/en/admissions_us/

For English-taught programmes in Japan:

http://www.uni.international.mext.go.jp/

For KAIST:

http://admission.kaist.ac.kr/international/?page_id=6

@Luke7456

Fair enough, I never actually checked out any of the undergraduate courses at any of those schools, nor any maths ones at any level. I'm hoping to go overseas (probably an Asian uni) for a masters, so I've only looked at postgrad courses and only in engineering or comp.sci. related areas. I really just want to gtfo the UK for a while, warm weather and sunshine and a break from all this liberal left vs racist right ******** that's been plaguing the country since last year. Coming out of a 4yr degree in the UK, I'm not sure I can handle another grim north Atlantic winter in England as a student.

Almost all post-grad degrees around the world are offered in English so you'll be fine there!

Well then for you Japan/Singapore/HK/China/Australia won't be bad options then!

Sadly Singapore, HK , Japan and definitely AUS are out of bounds due to funding really. Singapore offer subsided degrees, which helps, but the make you stay and work there for 3 years, not sure I can commit to 4years in Singapore I need to explore further funding options really, I haven't looked too much into it. I've heard the British council offer grants or loans to students going overseas to study.

Hahahaha I am sure Singapore is not that bad! Yeah look at options there are many out there, you just have to look for them!

Haha, it is more that I'm not exactly sure under what circumstances I'd be under. I suspect it wouldn't be a full working visa, so if there are salary caps or something it could be a mistake really. Something I need to check out really. Like you say, it is a matter of looking for the options available.

If it is important to you and you'd be happier there then go for it. Also **** your uncle, he cites THE https://www.timeshighereducation.com/world-university-rankings/2017/world-ranking#!/page/0/length/25/locations/GB/sort_by/rank/sort_order/asc/cols/stats (times higher education, which is not the same as times university guide) as one of the best guides (I agree it probably is, but even that isn't/should be seen as gold standard, all guides have a huge element of BS in them, THE is just seems less BS than the others, QS is another good one), well Bristol is a top 100 (71) in that guide, maybe he is jealous or something. Seriously, just **** people who will put you down like that man.

I've literally no idea about Oxbridge selection processes, that door was closed to me long before I took my GCSEs so it isn't something I've looked into. Someone else on this site will know, there are lots of Oxbridge applicants/students here.

To answer your question about foreign universities, you'll find the majority of courses at decent overseas universities these days tend to be in English or will at least have international programmes. When you think about it, say Thailand for example, teaching only in Thai limits their student population to Thai speakers, offering English courses opens the doors to many more students given English is essentially a universal language. Across Europe, France, Germany, Netherlands etc will offer English courses, same for HK, Singapore, Japan, China, Korea, etc it just depends on who willing you are to go overseas, it is obviously more hassle in organising visas, flights, finance etc, in the UK it is a matter of a UCAS application and an SFE application, then you're done.

Okay cool yeah not sure if I got it right he mentioned Times something not 100% if he said times higher education university guide or Sunday times etc.

However Bristol do alright everywhere so don't know what he is talking about. The guide I bought seems mostly there for maths though it does have a few abnormalities. I don't think Durham and St Andrews should rank above Warwick but I don't think their is enough in it to call that a huge mistake. I am skeptical of Durham because of a number of anti semetic incidents been reported their. Obviously this would not be a main stream thing but these kinds of people pick their targets and it would not be defined as anti semetic if they started on me probably would be told they were only kidding etc.

St Andrews is in Scotland and number of reasons I don't want to live in Scotland so would still Choose Warwick.

Dundee been in 7th place is ridiculous Bristol been in 11th seems harsh I think Bristol Have a better maths department then Dundee UCL Lancaster and Bath, Maybe their is debate in regards to st Andrews and Durham but you know.

Mind you none of those universities are terrible choices except maybe Dundee I guess that is where I go if I screw up and Get B grades because they seem top 20 in quite a few guides and its near impossible to get into anywhere half decent without A grades for maths. Mind you its in Scotland.

Edinburgh should never be 15th they should definitely be higher then that. and LSE in 38th what the hell??? I mean I wont go to LSE for maths because they don't do a course I would like but come on they are definitely better then that. But other those noted exceptions I think their league table is fairly safe for maths.

The thing is, league tables take in a lot of parameters to rank the university eg UCAS points of a student, employment prospects, satisfaction rates etc, many factors and each parameter will have a different weighting, some will rank based heavily of student satisfaction ratings. This is why universities such as Dundee make it into the really high ranks, as they tend to have an incredibly high satisfaction rating. Whereas LSE the satisfaction rating is probably terrible. This is one reason why ranking are a load of crap really, they can change drastically within a few years and are rarely accurate to begin with. I'd say the best advice I can give you is stuff that rankings altogether. Unless you plan on an overseas uni, discard all rankings and base your decision on where you would be happy to study, for 3 years of your life. All good and well getting into Imperial and being able to brag about the competitiveness and prestige of your course (which nobody will honestly care much about) but if you hate every minute of the university, hate living in London paying insane prices each month, completely broke and hating the atmosphere and social life, well you've just wasted 3years and no piece of paper with a 2:1/first from a top class uni will help justify having a terrible time for 3 years. Go somewhere you will enjoy, not just somewhere you will enjoy telling people you go there.

On a side note, Scotland is a great place to study and Dundee isn't all that bad of a university, its a pretty decent upper/mid-ranking uni, though it's strong points would be Medicine, dentistry and engineering, like I said before each university has its own strengths.

The only crossover in my opinion would be programming skills. Fluid dynamics is more or less using vector calculus to solve/express physical problems concerning fluids.

Not saying it's exactly mainstream, but fluid dynamics techniques have been used in finance:

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/05/140528132536.htm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Econophysics

(And in fact the only person I know personally who's doing high-end financial modelling has a PhD in physics, not maths).

Programming skills are way more common than someone able to find ways of solving the kinds of equations that come up in financial models. I don't work in finance myself, but my understanding is that if you understand financial maths and can write code, you won't have trouble finding jobs.

Note that writing mathematical code is quite a narrow subset of what you'd do in a computing degree. If you prefer maths, definitely look to "do some computing in your maths degree" rather than "do some maths in your computing degree"...

I don't work in finance myself, but my understanding is that if you understand financial maths and can write code and understand how the recruitment process operates and have the social skills required to sell yourself convincingly, you won't have trouble finding jobs.

So many people overestimate the degree and institution it is from while neglecting the real basics when it comes to getting a job, or rather at least a job on a graduate scheme I should say. I probably sound like I'm nit-picking, but I'm willing to bet , as few as there may be, there are many more students with an apt for financial maths and able to code than there are jobs.

In today's world were there are more and more graduates, I'm always sceptical of certain degree combinations which apparently allow you to walk into a job; I don't believe such as thing exists these days.

I stand corrected then. Though have to admit I'm not really that surprised when I think about it. There are lots of examples where one niche field in sciences can be applied to something of a totally different field. For example the genetic algorithm was designed to mimic natural selection processes, but it has uses in many engineering optimisation problems.

To correct you last part:


So many people overestimate the degree and institution it is from while neglecting the real basics when it comes to getting a job, or rather at least a job on a graduate scheme I should say. I probably sound like I'm nit-picking, but I'm willing to bet , as few as there may be, there are many more students with an apt for financial maths and able to code than there are jobs. In today's world were there are more and more graduates, I'm always sceptical of certain degree combinations which apparently allow you to walk into a job; I don't believe such as thing exists these days.

That said, I understand the city is its own particular environment and it takes a certain mindset.

My experience from various software jobs over the years is that high level maths skills are extremely rare - since financial mathematics is a pretty narrow specialty I'd expect it to be a lot rarer (In over 20 years I have never met a developer in the UK who had any knowledge of it whatsoever). Bear in mind I don't work in finance, the skills are going to be more common in that field, of course. (Also note that when I talk financial mathematics I'm meaning things like stochastic calculus, Black-Scholes etc. rather than more "accountancy"-type degrees).

Well, getting the first job is always the hardest of course. As you say, very few people "walk into" a job.

But at the same time, people who can actually understand complex math, and know how to implement it in code, are unusual enough that it's very obvious in an interview.

Semi-aside: I work in computer graphics, and there's a particular question I like to ask in interview, because it's "simple" with a lot of subtleties underneath. The simplest possible algorithm is O(N^2), there's a mathematical trick you can use to make it O(N), Fourier analysis gives you O(log N), there are approximate solutions justifiable by Fourier analysis and/or the Central Limit Theorem that are O(1). Then you can talk about multithreading, cache behaviour, GPU implementations. It's depressing how many interviewees can barely explain the O(N^2) solution. The one guy who "got" the O(N) approach stood out above everyone else by quite a long way (and its been reflected in his work since hiring).

That said, I understand the city is its own particular environment and it takes a certain mindset.

So what was your degree/s in then? And what sort of computer graphics area do you work in? Also you say to interview people, is the company your own?

Japan and Korea are a bit more complicated and almost definitely won't have what OP is looking for but yes essentially you are right For Korea I think the only university that OP would be interested in is KAIST and that programme and university are complete and utter hell... I would never suggest that anyone go to KAIST. UTokyo, UKyoto, and Keio don't have programmes in Mathematics in English.

Waseda does but it doesn't have that great of a global reputation and it's honestly better for Languages and Humanities then for sciences.

I will link the Waseda programmes below though but I doubt OP is interested:

http://www.fse.sci.waseda.ac.jp/en/intl-prog/

https://www.waseda.jp/fsci/en/admissions_us/

For English-taught programmes in Japan:

http://www.uni.international.mext.go.jp/

For KAIST:

http://admission.kaist.ac.kr/international/?page_id=6

@Luke7456