YES, it's in Romania ❤️
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I am a Romanian nationalist. Moldova belongs to Romania who agrees with me?
Original post by EC
Yes, exactlyyyyyyy.
Original post by Coup d'état
Why aren't they? Are you saying your nationality depends on your race? Can black people not be British?
They have been living in Romania for 100s of years. They are Romanian.
They have been living in Romania for 100s of years. They are Romanian.
Because they're not, they don't fit in with the cultural norms of the country, they bring a bad name to Romanians through their thievery, lies etc due to people thinking they're Romanian. Unlike Asians, Blacks etc who live in the UK and have assimilated, they've not.
Original post by Michiyo
Not all gypsies were born in or live in Romania, so it would be incorrect to say gypsies are Romanian.
Hear! Hear!
Original post by Snufkin
I accept that Romanian people may have a different perception on whether or not the word 'gypsy' is offensive, but in the UK (and TSR is a UK-based site), it can be.
If they aren't allowed to be Romanian then presumably she also thinks people of Indian descent cannot be British? That makes me uncomfortable.
If they aren't allowed to be Romanian then presumably she also thinks people of Indian descent cannot be British? That makes me uncomfortable.
You clearly don't accept it as you're still rambling on with your point that they're Romanian and you find it offensive to call them gypsies, which they are. I don't know where you come from but calling someone who's a gypsy, a gypsy isn't offensive.
Stop making connections that don't exist, EC hasn't said anything of the kind and you know it. As I said earlier, you need to stop being so uptight, live a little and embrace other's opinions, especially if it's in relation to their own country and people.
Original post by Snufkin
I am not comparing the word 'gypsy' to the N-word. 'Black' is a descriptive term for someone with African or Afro-Caribbean heritage, 'gypsy' is not a descriptive term because there is no single identifying feature common to all so-called 'gypsies'. It is true that some Roma have darker skin, but many do not. I accept that Romanian people may have a different perception on whether or not the word 'gypsy' is offensive, but in the UK (and TSR is a UK-based site), it can be.
I didn't say they originated in Romania. All the linguistic and genetic evidence points to northern India, but so what? They live in Romania now (and have done for a very, very long time), so I find it strange that EC won't call them Romanian. If they aren't allowed to be Romanian then presumably she also thinks people of Indian descent cannot be British? That makes me uncomfortable.
I didn't say they originated in Romania. All the linguistic and genetic evidence points to northern India, but so what? They live in Romania now (and have done for a very, very long time), so I find it strange that EC won't call them Romanian. If they aren't allowed to be Romanian then presumably she also thinks people of Indian descent cannot be British? That makes me uncomfortable.
You read my mind! I was just going to talk about that.
Since I lived in the UK for two years, I know the UK is more politically correct than Romania, but trust me, gypsy is not offensive at all in Romania.
As such, I do not think it is suitable for people to tell Romanians they are being offensive when they use the word 'gypsy' as it has a different meaning to them and most gypsies agree. Gypsies call themselves gypsies, only like 0.1% of gypsies make a fuss about it.Not all of them do.
No, that is not it. This is about what the gypsy identifies as; almost every single gypsy I have ever met only saw themselves as a gypsy and not Romanian, so if they consider themselves NOT to be Romanian and to be gypsies, that is what they are to me.
Original post by Coup d'état
So gypsies who were born in Romiania, are, correct?
Depends on whether they consider themselves to be Romanian or not. Gypsy is an ethnicity and Romanian is a nationality, but most gypsies, just like Muslims (who often consider themselves Muslim above their nationality), consider their ethnicity to define them more than their nationality. So, if they consider themselves to be gypsies, they are gypsies, albeit their nationality could be Romanian or something else (if they do not choose to put their ethnicity above their nationality, in which case calling a gypsy 'Romanian' would be offensive to the gypsy in question). If they are Romanian, they are Romanian, but their ethnicity is still gypsy.
TL;DR: Whether gypsies are gypsies and/or Romanian or not depends on what THEY identity as and most gypsies identify as gypsies, not Romanian or with whatever country they are in. Also, @PandaSal explains in the above post why gypsies are often not considered Romanian.
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by PandaSal
Because they're not, they don't fit in with the cultural norms of the country, they bring a bad name to Romanians through their thievery, lies etc due to people thinking they're Romanian. Unlike Asians, Blacks etc who live in the UK and have assimilated, they've not.
Because they're not, they don't fit in with the cultural norms of the country, they bring a bad name to Romanians through their thievery, lies etc due to people thinking they're Romanian. Unlike Asians, Blacks etc who live in the UK and have assimilated, they've not.
All irrelevant. They're born in Romania therefore Romanian.
Original post by Michiyo
You read my mind! I was just going to talk about that.
Since I lived in the UK for two years, I know the UK is more politically correct than Romania, but trust me, gypsy is not offensive at all in Romania. As such, I do not think it is suitable for people to tell Romanians they are being offensive when they use the word 'gypsy' as it has a different meaning to them and most gypsies agree. Gypsies call themselves gypsies, only like 0.1% of gypsies make a fuss about it.
Not all of them do.
No, that is not it. This is about what the gypsy identifies as; almost every single gypsy I have ever met only saw themselves as a gypsy and not Romanian, so if they consider themselves NOT to be Romanian and to be gypsies, that is what they are to me.
Depends on whether they consider themselves to be Romanian or not. Gypsy is an ethnicity and Romanian is a nationality, but most gypsies, just like Muslims (who often consider themselves Muslim above their nationality), consider their ethnicity to define them more than their nationality. So, if they consider themselves to be gypsies, they are gypsies, albeit their nationality could be Romanian or something else (if they do not choose to put their ethnicity above their nationality, in which case calling a gypsy 'Romanian' would be offensive to the gypsy in question). If they are Romanian, they are Romanian, but their ethnicity is still gypsy.
TL;DR: Whether gypsies are gypsies and/or Romanian or not depends on what THEY identity as and msot gypsies identify as gypsies, not Romanian. Also, @PandaSal explains in the above post why gypsies are often not considered Romanian.
Since I lived in the UK for two years, I know the UK is more politically correct than Romania, but trust me, gypsy is not offensive at all in Romania.
As such, I do not think it is suitable for people to tell Romanians they are being offensive when they use the word 'gypsy' as it has a different meaning to them and most gypsies agree. Gypsies call themselves gypsies, only like 0.1% of gypsies make a fuss about it.Not all of them do.
No, that is not it. This is about what the gypsy identifies as; almost every single gypsy I have ever met only saw themselves as a gypsy and not Romanian, so if they consider themselves NOT to be Romanian and to be gypsies, that is what they are to me.
Depends on whether they consider themselves to be Romanian or not. Gypsy is an ethnicity and Romanian is a nationality, but most gypsies, just like Muslims (who often consider themselves Muslim above their nationality), consider their ethnicity to define them more than their nationality. So, if they consider themselves to be gypsies, they are gypsies, albeit their nationality could be Romanian or something else (if they do not choose to put their ethnicity above their nationality, in which case calling a gypsy 'Romanian' would be offensive to the gypsy in question). If they are Romanian, they are Romanian, but their ethnicity is still gypsy.
TL;DR: Whether gypsies are gypsies and/or Romanian or not depends on what THEY identity as and msot gypsies identify as gypsies, not Romanian. Also, @PandaSal explains in the above post why gypsies are often not considered Romanian.
Again all irrelevant. Your ethnicity doesn't determine your natioanlity. You can be any ethnicity and be Romanian if you were born there.
Original post by EC
Yes, exactlyyyyyyy.
Romani people of Romania have lived there since the 13th century. Sure they may be a different ethnicity but they are still Romanians. It is like saying black Britons are not british- perhaps ethnically but they are still british
Original post by EC
@Michiyo don't bother with any further explanations.
"Don't bother trying to justify our racism"
Original post by Coup d'état
"Don't bother trying to justify our racism"
Too bad no one ever called me a racist and I never insulted them, I bump into them almost every single day and I don't think you actually ever talked to any of these people to find out their views. So calm down, I'm not explaining myself anymore to someone who has no idea what they're talking about.
Original post by Michiyo
TL;DR: Whether gypsies are gypsies and/or Romanian or not depends on what THEY identity as and most gypsies identify as gypsies, not Romanian or with whatever country they are in. Also, @PandaSal explains in the above post why gypsies are often not considered Romanian.
I agree that there is nothing wrong with a Romani person self-identifying as a 'gypsy' rather than 'Romanian', my issue is with people who say "[all] gypsies are not Romanian" - I have seen a number of people express such views in this thread.
Original post by Coup d'état
"Don't bother trying to justify our racism"
It would all make sense if you studied anything related to sociology and knew that being British, Japanese, Romanian or any other nationality is much more than having a citizenship or being born in a country
If it helps you understand, start by asking yourself 'What makes a person British?'. Is it just a citizenship or place of birth or is it much more than that? Think of all the immigrants you have met when pondering on this and you might just realise why a lot of gypsies can hardly be called Romanian even if they were born in Romania.
Original post by Michiyo
It would all make sense if you studied anything related to sociology and knew that being British, Japanese, Romanian or any other nationality is much more than having a citizenship or being born in a country
If it helps you understand, start by asking yourself 'What makes a person British?'. Is it just a citizenship or place of birth or is it much more than that? Think of all the immigrants you have met when pondering on this and you might just realise why a lot of gypsies can hardly be called Romanian even if they were born in Romania.
If it helps you understand, start by asking yourself 'What makes a person British?'. Is it just a citizenship or place of birth or is it much more than that? Think of all the immigrants you have met when pondering on this and you might just realise why a lot of gypsies can hardly be called Romanian even if they were born in Romania.
To confirm, you don't think a black person can be British?
Original post by Snufkin
I agree that there is nothing wrong with a Romani person self-identifying as a 'gypsy' rather than 'Romanian', my issue is with people who say "[all] gypsies are not Romanian" - I have seen a number of people express such views in this thread.
Romani gypsies have lived in Romania since the 13th century. Surely they are also Romanians, even despite belonging to a different ethnic group
Original post by UWS
Classic TSR.
A thread about scenery in Romania ends up getting into an argument over the definition of the word "gypsy"
A thread about scenery in Romania ends up getting into an argument over the definition of the word "gypsy"
Makes for a more interesting thread. 
Original post by UWS
Classic TSR.
A thread about scenery in Romania ends up getting into an argument over the definition of the word "gypsy"
A thread about scenery in Romania ends up getting into an argument over the definition of the word "gypsy"
"The traditional and colloquial Romanian name for Romani, is "țigani" (cognate with Serbian (cigani), Hungarian (cigány, Greek ατσίγγανοι (atsinganoi), French (tsiganes), Portuguese (ciganos), Dutch (zigeuner), German (Zigeuner) and Italian (zingari).
Starting from the 1990s, the word "Romani" has also been officially used in the Romanian Language.
In 2009-2010, a media campaign followed by a parliamentarian initiative asked the Romanian Parliament to accept a proposal to change back the official name of country's Roma (adopted in 2000) to Țigan (Gypsy), the traditional and colloquial Romanian name for Romani, in order to avoid the possible confusion among the international community between the words Roma — which refers to the Romani ethnic minority — and Romania."
Original post by TheTruthTeller
Romani gypsies have lived in Romania since the 13th century. Surely they are also Romanians, even despite belonging to a different ethnic group
They are the second largest minority after Hungarians in Romania.
In February 2016, during the International Roma Conference, the Indian Minister stated that the people of the Roma community were children of India. The conference ended with a recommendation to the Government to recognize the Roma community spread across 30 countries as a part of the Indian Diaspora.
Original post by EC
"The traditional and colloquial Romanian name for Romani, is "țigani" (cognate with Serbian (cigani), Hungarian (cigány, Greek ατσίγγανοι (atsinganoi), French (tsiganes), Portuguese (ciganos), Dutch (zigeuner), German (Zigeuner) and Italian (zingari).
Starting from the 1990s, the word "Romani" has also been officially used in the Romanian Language.
In 2009-2010, a media campaign followed by a parliamentarian initiative asked the Romanian Parliament to accept a proposal to change back the official name of country's Roma (adopted in 2000) to Țigan (Gypsy), the traditional and colloquial Romanian name for Romani, in order to avoid the possible confusion among the international community between the words Roma — which refers to the Romani ethnic minority — and Romania."
Starting from the 1990s, the word "Romani" has also been officially used in the Romanian Language.
In 2009-2010, a media campaign followed by a parliamentarian initiative asked the Romanian Parliament to accept a proposal to change back the official name of country's Roma (adopted in 2000) to Țigan (Gypsy), the traditional and colloquial Romanian name for Romani, in order to avoid the possible confusion among the international community between the words Roma — which refers to the Romani ethnic minority — and Romania."
You left out the most important sentence from that Wikipedia article: "The Romanian upper house, Senate, rejected the proposal."
Original post by Snufkin
You left out the most important sentence from that Wikipedia article: "The Romanian upper house, Senate, rejected the proposal."
So? They mostly reject beneficial proposals.
How is this important?
Original post by Coup d'état
To confirm, you don't think a black person can be British?
To confirm? I never implied black people could not be British. I think they can be British, to answer your question. But being British is more than just living there or being born there. That is the sociological argument I am bringing in: being a nationality implies more than merely being born there or living there, hence why not all gypsies who are born in Romania can be called Romanian.
Honestly, judging by your reponses, I guess you are most likely a SJW or an ethnic minority (black, Pakistani, Muslim, etc) or immigrant affected by the psychological process of projection who is arguing against our points based on emotional 'reasons' in an attempt to defend their own identity as British by projecting the argument onto other groups.
Original post by EC
@Michiyo I wonder..if some Gypsies have British written in their passport, do people in this thread consider them British? 
IKR? That is what I am trying to explain with my sociological argument. I lived in the UK for two years, I am most likely going to the university in the UK, and I will live there for enough time to get a British citizenship. But even if I had that citizenship, most British people would consider me Romanian and not British since I would not fit in with British norms, values, and culture. The same happens with gypsies and Romanians. Not all people with a certain citizenship can truly be considered of that nationality outside of the law because they do not match people of that nationality in culture and so forth.
(edited 7 years ago)
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