Why does British media assign traveller crime to eastern Europeans?
Edit: Sorry, wrong thread
(edited 6 years ago)
Original post by Mathemagicien
e.g. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-39184533
Hardly going to help Brits feel good about their European kin, is it, if the media pretends eastern Europeans are at fault, when its usually just gypsies, who don't really have a concept of national identity.
Hardly going to help Brits feel good about their European kin, is it, if the media pretends eastern Europeans are at fault, when its usually just gypsies, who don't really have a concept of national identity.
You are young and have no idea - the majority of gypsy crime is cause by romas - who are hated by the romanians.
Original post by Mathemagicien
Aren't the terms gypsy and Roma are interchangeable? Yes, Romanians hate the gypsies, and its easy to see why.
Your point is.....
Original post by Mathemagicien
Aren't the terms gypsy and Roma are interchangeable? Yes, Romanians hate the gypsies, and its easy to see why.
Not really. Gypsy is a catch all term for a number of ethnic groups, of which the Roma, generally accwprted as the largest and most persecuted ethnic minority in Europe, are one.
Original post by Mathemagicien
Hardly going to help Brits feel good about their European kin, is it, if the media pretends eastern Europeans are at fault, when its usually just gypsies, who don't really have a concept of national identity.
Hardly going to help Brits feel good about their European kin, is it, if the media pretends eastern Europeans are at fault, when its usually just gypsies, who don't really have a concept of national identity.
But whether Brits feel group about their gypsy and Roma kin doesn't matter, despite their significantly greater persecution?
Gypsies=Roma people=Romani people ---> these are alternative terms for the same meaning. They are spread across Europe, America and Asia, but an ethnic group of South Asian origin.
They have been accused several times by Romania and not only of tarnishing the country's image abroad. The problem is particularly acute in Eastern Europe because the concentration of Gypsies is the greatest. Of course these countries where there is a significant population of Roma and so their nationality is written on their passport are forced to take the bullet for their thievery and crimes. Mass-media says "Romanians did this and that" instead of elaborating and educating people on the subject. That is why some people don't even distinguish Romani from Romanian, which is an unrelated ethnic group and nation that is also pronounced "români" in Romanian.
Last year the Minister of India stated that they are children of India and also the Indian government was advised to recognise the Roma community as part of the Indian diaspora.
Those who haven't been assimilated into the European society and still face exclusion mostly travel from place to place without any goals whatsoever, don't even want to work, don't send their children to school and don't respect the law. Those people are being associated with the country they are residents in even if they don't seem to integrate and respect certain values. There are also exceptions like established respectable communities, but unfortunately not as noticeable.
They have been accused several times by Romania and not only of tarnishing the country's image abroad. The problem is particularly acute in Eastern Europe because the concentration of Gypsies is the greatest. Of course these countries where there is a significant population of Roma and so their nationality is written on their passport are forced to take the bullet for their thievery and crimes. Mass-media says "Romanians did this and that" instead of elaborating and educating people on the subject. That is why some people don't even distinguish Romani from Romanian, which is an unrelated ethnic group and nation that is also pronounced "români" in Romanian.
Last year the Minister of India stated that they are children of India and also the Indian government was advised to recognise the Roma community as part of the Indian diaspora.
Those who haven't been assimilated into the European society and still face exclusion mostly travel from place to place without any goals whatsoever, don't even want to work, don't send their children to school and don't respect the law. Those people are being associated with the country they are residents in even if they don't seem to integrate and respect certain values. There are also exceptions like established respectable communities, but unfortunately not as noticeable.
Original post by Mathemagicien
That is less detrimental to European unity.
Why are Romani people not "European"? They've lived in Europe for about 1,000 years.
Original post by Mathemagicien
Perhaps because they absolutely shun European society? Turks are much more European than the gypsies who haven't assimilated after a whole millenium.
Again you're proceeding from the starting assumption that they're not "European". I'm saying that 1,000 years' presence inherently gives them legitimacy to call themselves "European".
What exactly do you want them to do, by the way? Is it the nomadic lifestyle you see as un-European? By that logic, are the nomadic indigenous Sami in Northern Scandinavia also not European?
Original post by Mathemagicien
Also - Romanians are cultural descedents of the Roman Empire, the greatest European empire in history, perhaps the greatest human Empire full stop.
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Dacomania
Original post by Mathemagicien
Okay, you raise a good point. I guess by European, I refer to the majority European culture, which is descended from Roman,Greek, and Germanic cultures. So no, that would not include the Sami.
So your definition of European excludes:
- Slavs
- Celts (inc. Welsh, Scots, Irish, Cornish)
- Basques
- Hungarians
- Balts
- Finns
- Jews
- Albanians
- Maltese
That's quite an extensive list....
Original post by Mathemagicien
Do you see the irony of using a strawman argument while linking to a website that seeks to raise awareness of logical fallacies? I did not claim Romania is the cradle of civilisation, although I understand that you'd find that an easier argument to tackle.
The point is that you're making a classic nationalist historical fallacy. In this instance, that Romania's etymological derivation from Rome, and its former place as part of the Roman Empire, gives it a greater claim on Roman heritage than other Eastern European areas.
Apart from the fact that Dacia was only briefly part of the Roman Empire, there were countless mass population migrations, conversions, assimilations, etc between the fall of Rome and the emergence of a concept of a Romanian nation in the 19th Century.
Original post by Mathemagicien
Your confusion is understandable, and seems to stem from a misunderstanding of terminology. For example, the term indo-germanic does not mean exclusively Indian and Germanic peoples, but is used as a term to encompass all European cultures. It is this definition of Germanic, which includes the groups in your list, that I was using.
Coloured are the Indo-European peoples, 500 AD
Coloured are the Indo-European peoples, 500 AD
OK, but that doesn't really fit the point you're trying to make. The Romani language, after all, is indeed an Indo-European language. Hungarian, Basque and Finnish, by contrast, are not.
Original post by Mathemagicien
Watch this, the evolution of languages in the European continent https://g.redditmedia.com/_6H7Nleqp6cR-sNYf2VvoFfYluqlKhJjnSbzEs5jcx0.gif?w=701&fm=mp4&mp4-fragmented=false&
Romanian culture does have stronger links to Rome than its neighbours.
Romanian culture does have stronger links to Rome than its neighbours.
Link doesn't work, but I've seen similar such videos in the past.
The problem is that you're assuming language = culture, when language is only one aspect of culture. For example, it would seem bizarre to argue that Anglophone Irishmen have more culturally in common with Anglophone Maoris than they do with Gaelophone Irishmen, right?
Blaming Romania for Gypsies is like blaming Britain directly for every British muslim that joins ISIS. I don't see British people take responsibility for having numerous ISIS soldiers whom are British but I do see British people complain about Gypsies and call them Romanian. This is hypocritical and stupid, being racist and ignorant is easy, I expect better from educated people and the fact stands that the vast majority of Romanians are good decent people who contribute positively to the economy.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-32026985
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/10557284/Bulgarians-and-Romanians-will-pay-more-tax-than-British-natives.html
To support my claims.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-32026985
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/10557284/Bulgarians-and-Romanians-will-pay-more-tax-than-British-natives.html
To support my claims.
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