May I suggest you acquire your news from a more reputable source; Breitbart is well known for poorly backed up, biased, and sometimes simply fabricated news.

Reply 4

username1148663

Original post by Shootme

Anyone?

I dispose that the Labour Party doesn't do what it says on the tin which is look after the poor and working class that stopped in 1994 with Blair.

Today they are a party that stands for next to nothing and just virtue signal which is why the working class has been deserting them.

That's labours problem today, it doesn't matter who's leader they won't be elected.

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Reply 5

Davij038

I despise the SWP fringe and the 'progressive' elements exemplified by McDonnell, Corbyn, Thornberry, Abbot and Ckakrobarti

I've got a lot of time for Hilary Benn, Liz Kendall, Alan Johnson, Keir Starmer, Tom Watson and Chucka Umunna

Reply 6

ChaoticButterfly

Original post by PearceVDC

The NHS, the welfare state,

You mean the stuff brought in by aristocrat Atlee?

The idea that that the modern labour left represents only the middle class is one of the stupidest charges against it I hear. Especially giving that was New Labour's schtick.

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 7

3121

Original post by paul514

New Labour did a lot more for the working class than the alternative would've had it not been for Blair, if the working class ditched Labour because it's policies became too conservative then why have switched to the tories? Hoping to gain what from them exactly?… union power? Workers rights? Better working conditions? Job security? Opportunities for thief kids? Haha, sure.

Labour needs to ditch the idea of trade union power, have unions be independent of politics and solely focus on ensuring workers rights and fair pay, labour needs to rethink its polices to gain support from those who've switched to UKIP by admitting immigration has been an issue and offer them hope for a UK out of the EU, it needs to rebuild its base in Scotland which I think could've easily been done had we got a competent leader after 2015 but the main reason Labour lost 2010 and 2015 is the loss of middle class voters. Voting behaviour of the working class is clearly flawed if they defect from Labour to the tories, It shows that it certainly isn't a matter of policy which leads me to think they vote as they're told by the media and surroundings, as we know people don't always vote in their best interests.

Reply 8

DPWhitehouse

If Labour went anti immigration and ditched its SD platform it would win a landslide in 2025- 2020 is too little time to turn it around. If you asked many people what they vote for, the answer would be that immigration is one of the most key issues then if they balance themselves at the center ground they would keep the northern votes.

I have always voted Labour despite being quite right wing to do so (+5+5 on political spectrum) people like Jeremy Corbyn and Diane Blacks Rule Abbott put me off now

Reply 9

username1148663

Original post by DPWhitehouse

If they ditched that platform they would lose those middle class metro votes like in London, that's why Blair went after them.

If they keep their policy's that appeal to those metro voters they have a slow bleed on their traditional vote, that's why they have no chance of winning the next two elections at a minimum

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Reply 10

DPWhitehouse

Original post by paul514

They do not need london if they can win 326 besides, which i think is possible if they go anti immigration and go for centrist economics, in other words authoritarianism is the way forward.

Reply 11

username1177050

look at my own town, nuneaton. lots of ex miners and steelworkers, many of whose fathers fought in ww2 and recently ireland kosovo iraq. they see corbyn who is a friend to terrorists and who hates our culture and armed forces. this coupled with the political correctness of labour means they will continue to haemmorhage votes from their old strongholds. only students and the islington set plus immigrants remain. last april i spoke to 2 ex miners at a beer festival in sheffield who were at orgreave and were NUM members. now vote tory. tells you everything you need to know

Reply 12

L i b

I'm a Tory, but I actually have a lot of affection for the Labour Party. I have Labour supporters in my family, and I certainly don't write the party off.

I think it's actually quite sad and dispiriting what it has become. People like Neil Kinnock fought to create a Labour Party that could actually function and wasn't out of touch with the public. Tony Blair won three general elections with a cabinet largely full of credible, decent and intelligent people. It did some things I don't agree with, but in fact achieved a great deal too.

Today, Jeremy Corbyn is destroying that for the sake of his own ideological commitments which - if he even got close to power - would make everyone worse off. I find it depressing that people I know who believe in and care about the Labour Party feel that they have no-one that represents their views. There is an existential threat to the party as a serious organisation - and having an opposition this weak isn't in anyone's interests: even the most fervent Tory supporters.

So no, I don't hate the Labour Party. In fact, I want it to be better. In this state, it is useless and that is damaging the politics of the entire UK - you need only look at my native Scotland where this has resulted in a decade of government by Nationalists who seek to tear this country apart.

Reply 13

ChaoticButterfly

Original post by L i b

I'm sure you don't want a left wing labour party that has the ability to threaten the Tories :rolleyes:

Reply 14

username1148663

Original post by DPWhitehouse

They do not need london if they can win 326 besides, which i think is possible if they go anti immigration and go for centrist economics, in other words authoritarianism is the way forward.

Yes quite possibly but with the loss of Scotland, the boundary changes and going to 600 MPs it's still very unlikely.

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Reply 15

L i b

Original post by ChaoticButterfly

I'm sure you don't want a left wing labour party that has the ability to threaten the Tories :rolleyes:

Well, the Labour Party is and always has been left-wing. I'd like a credible Labour Party - and I accept that sometimes that means the Tories losing elections. I'm not sure if you expect members of political parties to dream of creating a de facto one party state. That's definitely not what I desire.

Reply 16

ChaoticButterfly

I mean all the conservative supporters who say they morn the loss of effective opposition to a project they more or less fully agree with don't actually want a left wing labour party that can threaten the Tories. At best they want a Labour party that fits in their preferred brand of centrism (like Tony Blair).

(edited 7 years ago)

Reply 17

ChaoticButterfly

Original post by L i b

By left wing I mean one that really goes against your liberalism. Tony Blair and his third way doesn't count.

Reply 18

l'etranger

Original post by Shootme

Things like this

She's so awful.

Reply 19

L i b

Original post by ChaoticButterfly

By left wing I mean one that really goes against your liberalism. Tony Blair and his third way doesn't count.

Yeah, I don't think there's much scope for a party that puts forward that sort of platform and threatens to take power from the Conservatives.

I appreciate it's potentially a bit incendiary but I don't think these sort of views are held by serious people. Or people who are remotely in touch with public opinion. The same, incidentally, goes for the socially conservative Tory right - I don't think they could get elected and their little gang of fruitloops are not remotely serious either. Both sides of that divide have given up all semblance of rational, evidence-based policy making and prefer instead to indulge themselves in their ridiculous ideological purity and damn whoever gets hurt in the process.