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Minimum wage too low
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I was getting £7.90 per hour on my first job and it was just a cashier at Waitrose… I was only 17 as well. I was in shock when I found out people my age work below £7/hr. I was due a pay rise before I left, sadly I couldn't stay on because it was getting in the way of education. Good for the CV tho I think… not sure if 2 months in a job is good or bad thing?
Original post by Rakas21
As Zulu Army points out the tax threshold is ~£11500 and the tax rate actually 32%. The minimum wage is set at a level to appease the left and make the relative poverty figures look good, it does not take into account London being more expensive than Newcastle.
It is however sufficient, especially if you have two bedroom place outside London. My own costs (living alone) are..
Rent: £305
Water: £40
Electricity: £30
Broadband: £30
Mobile: £15
Council Tax: £15 (somebody on minimum wage would get discount)
Food+Toiletries: £100
Travel: £120
TV license: £15
This all comes to £670 leaving ~£300 to do as one pleases if they live a mildly frugal existence
*Note that i don't oppose increasing the minimum wage, i just don't think the cost of living should be a factor in it. It should be set at the level in which the distortion to employment growth is considered acceptable.
Even if your MP becomes Mayor he does not have the power to raise the minimum wage, that is set by central government. At best he could pay people in the public sector that wage however his budgets will be cut at the same time so you'd be cutting services deeper to increase public sector wages. Probably not a point he wants to make on his campaign trail.
It is however sufficient, especially if you have two bedroom place outside London. My own costs (living alone) are..
Rent: £305
Water: £40
Electricity: £30
Broadband: £30
Mobile: £15
Council Tax: £15 (somebody on minimum wage would get discount)
Food+Toiletries: £100
Travel: £120
TV license: £15
This all comes to £670 leaving ~£300 to do as one pleases if they live a mildly frugal existence
*Note that i don't oppose increasing the minimum wage, i just don't think the cost of living should be a factor in it. It should be set at the level in which the distortion to employment growth is considered acceptable.
Even if your MP becomes Mayor he does not have the power to raise the minimum wage, that is set by central government. At best he could pay people in the public sector that wage however his budgets will be cut at the same time so you'd be cutting services deeper to increase public sector wages. Probably not a point he wants to make on his campaign trail.
I earn slightly over the minimum wage I earn 15,250(not bad considering my grandad brought me an house which he will give me on my 21st )
15250
PAYE 748.20
NI 850.32
Pension 884.50
So in total I earn this year 12766.98- not bad for a 19 year old
Original post by nymphielymphie
Yes, but if say you have two employees doing the same entry-level, sales assistant job and:
Person A is 27, hasn't got much education except Ds in English and Maths, and it is their first job working as a sales assistant.
Person B is 20, has a good set of BBB A-Levels or is at a good uni, and they have previous part-time experience of working in a shop.
Person A will be paid 7.50 while Person B will be paid 5.55. Even though I would argue that Person B's labour is worth more as they are more experienced and better educated.
Person A is 27, hasn't got much education except Ds in English and Maths, and it is their first job working as a sales assistant.
Person B is 20, has a good set of BBB A-Levels or is at a good uni, and they have previous part-time experience of working in a shop.
Person A will be paid 7.50 while Person B will be paid 5.55. Even though I would argue that Person B's labour is worth more as they are more experienced and better educated.
Of course it is a case by case basis and it is not fair in that scenario but when the minimum wage first came in I believe they calculated it around the cost of living and a 27 year old will have a more expensive lifestyle than a 20 year old
Original post by Anonymous1502
Apparently the living wage is 7.50 GBP so if you work 8 hours 5 days a week the pay per week is 300GBP and 1200 GBP before tax and 14400 GBP per year before tax now after tax it is:
11520 GBP per year (tax being 20%)
960 GBP per month
192 GBP per week
6GBP per hour after tax
Now this is very low especially for London living.Apparently the minimum wage gives a minimum acceptable wage now that is easy to say for politicians but I just don't see how anyone can survive with such a low wage.For that sort of wage you would get a box room,food,travel pay and basics to survive.But barely any money left to save or spend how you would like.It is easy for politicians to set such low wages and call it acceptable yet they are probably living a fairly comfortable life I would love to see how they would make ends meet with such a small salary.
I have been fairly privileged and never experienced a life on a minimum wage but it does not mean that I think anyone should have such a low wage.
Another thing which outrages me is that the minimum wage is different for certain ages what gives someone the right to pay someone more for the same amount of work just because they are older.Also what gives someone that right to say that if you are younger you do not need as much money.If I work as hard and as long as someone else we deserve equal pay no matter the age or gender.
11520 GBP per year (tax being 20%)
960 GBP per month
192 GBP per week
6GBP per hour after tax
Now this is very low especially for London living.Apparently the minimum wage gives a minimum acceptable wage now that is easy to say for politicians but I just don't see how anyone can survive with such a low wage.For that sort of wage you would get a box room,food,travel pay and basics to survive.But barely any money left to save or spend how you would like.It is easy for politicians to set such low wages and call it acceptable yet they are probably living a fairly comfortable life I would love to see how they would make ends meet with such a small salary.
I have been fairly privileged and never experienced a life on a minimum wage but it does not mean that I think anyone should have such a low wage.
Another thing which outrages me is that the minimum wage is different for certain ages what gives someone the right to pay someone more for the same amount of work just because they are older.Also what gives someone that right to say that if you are younger you do not need as much money.If I work as hard and as long as someone else we deserve equal pay no matter the age or gender.
The min wage being different for certain ages - blame the politicians, who didn't want to upset big business by bringing in the minimum wage at all. In the end they all agreed its ok as long as certain age get lower pay.
London is really expensive, mostly because the rents are really ridiculously high. You're better off if you move out of London and go up north where rent is more affordable. £11, 520 after tax is ok if you live with your parents and not in London.
I'm sorry but previous experience tends to be a very good indicator of job performance, because you are not training someone from scratch?
Original post by Davij038
Nice budget lol.
Replace London with the South East. I live I in Gillingham where I pay £320 for a room ( including utilities) and count myself bloody lucky.
Replace London with the South East. I live I in Gillingham where I pay £320 for a room ( including utilities) and count myself bloody lucky.
I'm in Huddersfield at the moment though i could get a room at £320 bills inc in Leeds if i saved a deposit.
Original post by Davij038
Nice budget lol.
Replace London with the South East. I live I in Gillingham where I pay £320 for a room ( including utilities) and count myself bloody lucky.
Replace London with the South East. I live I in Gillingham where I pay £320 for a room ( including utilities) and count myself bloody lucky.
Gillingham is horrible.
Original post by Quady
Gillingham is horrible.
No
lolOriginal post by nymphielymphie
Yes, but if say you have two employees doing the same entry-level, sales assistant job and: Person A is 27, hasn't got much education except Ds in English and Maths, and it is their first job working as a sales assistant. Person B is 20, has a good set of BBB A-Levels or is at a good uni, and they have previous part-time experience of working in a shop. Person A will be paid 7.50 while Person B will be paid 5.55. Even though I would argue that Person B's labour is worth more as they are more experienced and better educated.
I would imagine Person B is more likely to get an interview for the job than Person A though. What has the 27 year old in question been doing since leaving school anyway?
Also, Person B seems to have a lot more motivation so likely will be earning a lot more than Person A by the time they are 27.
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by DarkMagic
I would imagine Person B is more likely to get an interview for the job than Person A though. What has the 27 year old in question been doing since leaving school anyway?
Also, Person B seems to have a lot more motivation so likely will be earning a lot more than Person A by the time they are 27.
Also, Person B seems to have a lot more motivation so likely will be earning a lot more than Person A by the time they are 27.
in reality, the opposite of your first statement is true. Person A gets the job interview and job over Person B.
Person A is a very safe bet. For general retail work, experience or past skills are not important at all. The store manager will know this, and will pick the 27 year knowing they will likely stay and be a motivated worker for longer. The manager knows that Person A has little chance of ever progressing beyond this type of work, and has shown no desire in life to move to anything better. Given a decent working atmosphere and some nice colleges, Person A will likely be a competent and reasonable employee for years and years to come.
On the other hand Person B is far more risky and worth far less. Sure they are clearly more capable and intelligent, but for stacking shelves and serving customers this will make no difference to their ability to do the job at all. What devalues Person B is their motivations in life will clearly be well beyond that of Person A. There will be no question at all in the mind of the manager that Person B will always be looking for opportunities to leave. For Person A this is a temporary job that they will hold until something better comes along, and that devalues them hugely when compared to person A.
The only thing that keeps young people like Person B competitive in today's low-skilled job market is the fact that due to the different levels of national minimum wage, person B costs less, and therefore gives the shop owner a choice between cost and future investment. One which most large shops will balance pretty evenly, choosing to take on a mixed workforce of half young ambitious but cheap employees, and half old dependable stable but expensive employees.
If you force shops to pay both groups the same wage (its worth noting, some do already out of principle, but not many), then unemployment among the younger group will increase dramatically within these types of jobs.
Original post by Quady
Not really. The market is still deciding to employ them, the work is still worth the cost.
The market is still deciding to employ them because those jobs still need to be done by someone. However, the value of those jobs is being artificially inflated, because workers who are doing those jobs no longer need to compete on price. It is essentially a form of price fixing.
Not only that, but it also generates unemployment. If the minimum wage means that a job carries a higher wage than it otherwise would have, employers will not hire as many people as they otherwise would have been able to for that job (or they might try to automate it or outsource it to another country), and certain jobs which are more of a "nice to have" rather than necessary will simply cease to exist.
A national minimum wage sounds like a great policy and will be popular with less wealthy voters for obvious reasons, but it tends to have more opposition from economists due to its secondary effects which aren't immediately apparent (i.e. increased unemployment and barriers to the labour market, price inflation eroding the value of those minimum wages, reduction in productivity of low-skilled workers etc.)
Personally I would be in favour of completely doing away with a compulsory minimum wage, and instead using other methods (e.g. via taxation, subsidies and universal benefits) to ensure that everyone has enough to live on.
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by Anonymous1502
Apparently the living wage is 7.50 GBP so if you work 8 hours 5 days a week the pay per week is 300GBP and 1200 GBP before tax and 14400 GBP per year before tax now after tax it is:
11520 GBP per year (tax being 20%)
960 GBP per month
192 GBP per week
6GBP per hour after tax
Now this is very low especially for London living.Apparently the minimum wage gives a minimum acceptable wage now that is easy to say for politicians but I just don't see how anyone can survive with such a low wage.For that sort of wage you would get a box room,food,travel pay and basics to survive.But barely any money left to save or spend how you would like.It is easy for politicians to set such low wages and call it acceptable yet they are probably living a fairly comfortable life I would love to see how they would make ends meet with such a small salary.
I have been fairly privileged and never experienced a life on a minimum wage but it does not mean that I think anyone should have such a low wage.
Another thing which outrages me is that the minimum wage is different for certain ages what gives someone the right to pay someone more for the same amount of work just because they are older.Also what gives someone that right to say that if you are younger you do not need as much money.If I work as hard and as long as someone else we deserve equal pay no matter the age or gender.
11520 GBP per year (tax being 20%)
960 GBP per month
192 GBP per week
6GBP per hour after tax
Now this is very low especially for London living.Apparently the minimum wage gives a minimum acceptable wage now that is easy to say for politicians but I just don't see how anyone can survive with such a low wage.For that sort of wage you would get a box room,food,travel pay and basics to survive.But barely any money left to save or spend how you would like.It is easy for politicians to set such low wages and call it acceptable yet they are probably living a fairly comfortable life I would love to see how they would make ends meet with such a small salary.
I have been fairly privileged and never experienced a life on a minimum wage but it does not mean that I think anyone should have such a low wage.
Another thing which outrages me is that the minimum wage is different for certain ages what gives someone the right to pay someone more for the same amount of work just because they are older.Also what gives someone that right to say that if you are younger you do not need as much money.If I work as hard and as long as someone else we deserve equal pay no matter the age or gender.
If everyone had the same minimum wage then companies wouldn't hire anyone under the age of 18, because they have less experience and less flexible working hours because of school, that is why young people are paid less as it is an incentive for the company to hire young people so they can then gain that experience. If you had to pay the same wage to a 16 year old with no experience and a 25 year old with a lot of experience then companies would just hire the older more experienced people.
I have a part time job in retail along with my studies and the majority of people in my department are under 18 (including me) because they are less expensive to hire.
That's more than enough. You are not entitled to a nice big house, your favourite lobster brands and comfortable living. I say this as someone who has lived in a single room for 5 years, granted the last year it has been more than just a small box room. You have to work for it. If the minimum wage is enough for you to LIVE on then THAT is where it should stay. All people want nowadays is free stuff. They feel they are entitled to every luxury other people work hard to get. But they don't care that it is others who have to pay for it, so long as they, themselves do not. off.
off.(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by Anonymous1502
Apparently the living wage is 7.50 GBP so if you work 8 hours 5 days a week the pay per week is 300GBP and 1200 GBP before tax and 14400 GBP per year before tax now after tax it is:
11520 GBP per year (tax being 20%)
960 GBP per month
192 GBP per week
6GBP per hour after tax
Now this is very low especially for London living.Apparently the minimum wage gives a minimum acceptable wage now that is easy to say for politicians but I just don't see how anyone can survive with such a low wage.For that sort of wage you would get a box room,food,travel pay and basics to survive.But barely any money left to save or spend how you would like.It is easy for politicians to set such low wages and call it acceptable yet they are probably living a fairly comfortable life I would love to see how they would make ends meet with such a small salary.
I have been fairly privileged and never experienced a life on a minimum wage but it does not mean that I think anyone should have such a low wage.
Another thing which outrages me is that the minimum wage is different for certain ages what gives someone the right to pay someone more for the same amount of work just because they are older.Also what gives someone that right to say that if you are younger you do not need as much money.If I work as hard and as long as someone else we deserve equal pay no matter the age or gender.
11520 GBP per year (tax being 20%)
960 GBP per month
192 GBP per week
6GBP per hour after tax
Now this is very low especially for London living.Apparently the minimum wage gives a minimum acceptable wage now that is easy to say for politicians but I just don't see how anyone can survive with such a low wage.For that sort of wage you would get a box room,food,travel pay and basics to survive.But barely any money left to save or spend how you would like.It is easy for politicians to set such low wages and call it acceptable yet they are probably living a fairly comfortable life I would love to see how they would make ends meet with such a small salary.
I have been fairly privileged and never experienced a life on a minimum wage but it does not mean that I think anyone should have such a low wage.
Another thing which outrages me is that the minimum wage is different for certain ages what gives someone the right to pay someone more for the same amount of work just because they are older.Also what gives someone that right to say that if you are younger you do not need as much money.If I work as hard and as long as someone else we deserve equal pay no matter the age or gender.
The minimum wage is different for different ages because younger people are less experienced and require more training by the employer. If they were paid the same wage, there would be no incentive for the employer to choose a younger candidate. The lower minimum wage gives an incentive to hire younger people, resulting in lower youth unemployment.
As well as this, a person on minimum wage wouldn't usually be working 8 hours a week. They would be working 10 hours or more. You can tell expect them to work such low hours and have a good income. It's the middle class that tend to work 8 hours a day, 5 days a week.
An increase n the minimum wage will also cause firms to hire fewer workers in the UK due to the higher cost of hiring them. Even though the minimum wage might be 'low', it is still far better than being unemployed.
Original post by Anonymous1502
Apparently the living wage is 7.50 GBP so if you work 8 hours 5 days a week the pay per week is 300GBP and 1200 GBP before tax and 14400 GBP per year before tax now after tax it is:
11520 GBP per year (tax being 20%)
960 GBP per month
192 GBP per week
6GBP per hour after tax
Now this is very low especially for London living.Apparently the minimum wage gives a minimum acceptable wage now that is easy to say for politicians but I just don't see how anyone can survive with such a low wage.For that sort of wage you would get a box room,food,travel pay and basics to survive.But barely any money left to save or spend how you would like.It is easy for politicians to set such low wages and call it acceptable yet they are probably living a fairly comfortable life I would love to see how they would make ends meet with such a small salary.
I have been fairly privileged and never experienced a life on a minimum wage but it does not mean that I think anyone should have such a low wage.
Another thing which outrages me is that the minimum wage is different for certain ages what gives someone the right to pay someone more for the same amount of work just because they are older.Also what gives someone that right to say that if you are younger you do not need as much money.If I work as hard and as long as someone else we deserve equal pay no matter the age or gender.
11520 GBP per year (tax being 20%)
960 GBP per month
192 GBP per week
6GBP per hour after tax
Now this is very low especially for London living.Apparently the minimum wage gives a minimum acceptable wage now that is easy to say for politicians but I just don't see how anyone can survive with such a low wage.For that sort of wage you would get a box room,food,travel pay and basics to survive.But barely any money left to save or spend how you would like.It is easy for politicians to set such low wages and call it acceptable yet they are probably living a fairly comfortable life I would love to see how they would make ends meet with such a small salary.
I have been fairly privileged and never experienced a life on a minimum wage but it does not mean that I think anyone should have such a low wage.
Another thing which outrages me is that the minimum wage is different for certain ages what gives someone the right to pay someone more for the same amount of work just because they are older.Also what gives someone that right to say that if you are younger you do not need as much money.If I work as hard and as long as someone else we deserve equal pay no matter the age or gender.
Whilst your ideals aren't bad they lack the knowledge of why things are so bad and why putting up the minimum wage will just make things worse.
Also your maths are wrong at the start
Posted from TSR Mobile
Original post by nymphielymphie
7.20/hour is not enough to live on.
7.20 - or even 7.50 - is good for when you're doing a part-time job stocking shelves or absent-mindedly scanning things. It requires minimal effort.
But a trained barista or an experienced waiter, those are jobs worth at least 8.00/hour, and that's what's needed if you have a family or a house you're paying off, when you are generally independent.
Oh, but why should we pay this 25 year old 7.50 when we can get an 18 year old to do it for 5.55?
The minimum wage is being misused. The idea is great but the execution is poor.
7.20 - or even 7.50 - is good for when you're doing a part-time job stocking shelves or absent-mindedly scanning things. It requires minimal effort.
But a trained barista or an experienced waiter, those are jobs worth at least 8.00/hour, and that's what's needed if you have a family or a house you're paying off, when you are generally independent.
Oh, but why should we pay this 25 year old 7.50 when we can get an 18 year old to do it for 5.55?
The minimum wage is being misused. The idea is great but the execution is poor.
Exactly. I'm 23 so get £7.05 an hour (which changed from £6.95) on the 1st of April but my job (waitress, bar staff) is very stressful and I'm constantly rushing around, never off my feet - I worked a 10 hour shift Friday with no breaks and was so shattered the next day I couldn't do anything apart from lie down. I could be sat down, mindlessly scanning things on a checkout in Tesco for the same (or even more) money. I agree that the minimum wage is a great idea to ensure employees get paid at least a set amount but it's annoying when you work so hard for so little. Although, as a side note, I do get tips so it's not all bad.
(edited 7 years ago)
This shouldn't be about "get a better job". It should be about basic dignity. When a person works full time (no matter how skilled that job is) and still struggles to make ends meet, it is symptomatic of an economy that is a rip off and happy to endorse slave labour. The UK is one of the richest countries in the world and it is bloody shameful that people are living this way when it absolutely doesn't have to be the case!
Original post by paul514
Whilst your ideals aren't bad they lack the knowledge of why things are so bad and why putting up the minimum wage will just make things worse.
Also your maths are wrong at the start
Posted from TSR Mobile
Also your maths are wrong at the start
Posted from TSR Mobile
There have been a whole host of studies conducted on whether the minimum wage increases unemployment and there hasn't been any which prove or even strongly suggest that it does.
The vast majority find very litttle effect on employment from raising the minimum wage.
Obviously the minimum wage needs to be increased at a sensible rate but there simply isn't the evidence to suggest it does more harm than good.
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