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Maths C4 - Integration... Help???

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My teacher did teach us the reverse chain rule however he stressed very hard that you can only use it when function inside brackets is linear. Don't know if that's fully true but good so that it that rule doesn't even pass through my mind during c4 and I just use it when doing c3.
Original post by black1blade
My teacher did teach us the reverse chain rule however he stressed very hard that you can only use it when function inside brackets is linear. Don't know if that's fully true


Yes it's fully true.
Reply 62
Original post by black1blade
My teacher did teach us the reverse chain rule however he stressed very hard that you can only use it when function inside brackets is linear. Don't know if that's fully true but good so that it that rule doesn't even pass through my mind during c4 and I just use it when doing c3.

Your teacher is correct and taught the topic well. So many teachers don't which is why we get so many students on TSR who think that e.g.

ex2 dx=12xex2+c\displaystyle \int e^{x^2} \ dx = \frac{1}{2x} e^{x^2}+c
Original post by notnek
Assuming you mean (f) :smile:

Look at your formula book and see which of these terms you can integrate. Then let us know which terms you're still stuck on.


Thank you! For some reason I forgot I could use the identity that 1+cot2θcosec2θ 1 + cot^2 \theta \equiv cosec^2 \theta

So I managed to get...

=(cot2x2cotxcosecx+cosec2x)dx = \int (cot^2 x - 2 cot x cosec x + cosec^2 x ) dx

=(cosec2x12cotxcosecx+cosec2x)dx = \int (cosec^2 x - 1 - 2 cot x cosec x + cosec^2 x ) dx

=2cotxx+2cosecx+c = -2cot x - x + 2cosec x + c

:smile: :smile: :smile:
Original post by Philip-flop
Thank you! For some reason I forgot I could use the identity that 1+cot2θcosec2θ 1 + cot^2 \theta \equiv cosec^2 \theta

So I managed to get...

=(cot2x2cotxcosecx+cosec2x)dx = \int (cot^2 x - 2 cot x cosec x + cosec^2 x ) dx

=(cosec2x12cotxcosecx+cosec2x)dx = \int (cosec^2 x - 1 - 2 cot x cosec x + cosec^2 x ) dx

=2cotxx+2cosecx+c = -2cot x - x + 2cosec x + c

:smile: :smile: :smile:


Yes, that is correct :smile:
Ok, so now I'm stuck on how to integrate these types...

(3cosxsin2x)dx \int (3cos x sin^2 x) dx

:frown: :frown: :frown:
Original post by Philip-flop
Ok, so now I'm stuck on how to integrate these types...

(3cosxsin2x)dx \int (3cos x sin^2 x) dx

:frown: :frown: :frown:


I tell right away it will be sin3(x)+c\sin^3(x)+c but whenever you see these types, just realise that cosine and sine are a product here, and they are both derivatives of each other (ignoring the sign change which is a constant mult.). So it would be a good idea to use substitution. Which one do you think would be a good one to sub in for?
Reply 67
Original post by Philip-flop
Ok, so now I'm stuck on how to integrate these types...

(3cosxsin2x)dx \int (3cos x sin^2 x) dx

:frown: :frown: :frown:

Any thoughts?

If you have no idea then try differentiating sin3x\sin^3 x then try sin4x\sin^4 x and sin5x\sin^5 x. You should notice a pattern (you may know this pattern already).

Getting used to these patterns will save you having to make a substitution in the exam (which may or may not be given to you). And I find that if you discover the pattern yourself as I've told you to above then it helps you remember it.
Original post by RDKGames
I tell right away it will be sin3(x)+c\sin^3(x)+c but whenever you see these types, just realise that cosine and sine are a product here, and they are both derivatives of each other (ignoring the sign change which is a constant mult.). So it would be a good idea to use substitution. Which one do you think would be a good one to sub in for?


How on earth did you know instantly? I'm really struggling with these types :frown: I'm not even sure I know how to use Integration by Substitution in this case :frown:

Original post by notnek
Any thoughts?

If you have no idea then try differentiating sin3x\sin^3 x then try sin4x\sin^4 x and sin5x\sin^5 x. You should notice a pattern (you may know this pattern already).

Getting used to these patterns will save you having to make a substitution in the exam (which may or may not be given to you). And I find that if you discover the pattern yourself as I've told you to above then it helps you remember it.


Ok, so I can see (worked out) that...
f(x)=sin3xf(x)=3cosxsin2x f(x) = sin^3 x \Rightarrow f'(x) = 3 cosx sin^2 x

f(x)=sin4xf(x)=4cosxsin3x f(x) = sin^4 x \Rightarrow f'(x) = 4 cosx sin^3 x

f(x)=sin5xf(x)=5cosxsin4x f(x) = sin^5 x \Rightarrow f'(x) = 5 cosx sin^4 x << I didn't check whether this one was correct I just assumed.
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by Philip-flop
How on earth did you know instantly? I'm really struggling with these types :frown: I'm not even sure I know how to use Integration by Substitution in this case :frown:



Ok, so I can see (worked out) that...
sin3x=3cosxsin2x \int sin^3 x = 3 cosx sin^2 x

sin4x=4cosxsin3x \int sin^4 x = 4 cosx sin^3 x

sin5x=5cosxsin4x \int sin^5 x = 5 cosx sin^4 x << I didn't check whether this one was correct I just assumed.


Use the one which has the higher exponent on it, so sine has the higher exponent. Thus u=sin(x)u=\sin(x) works.

Also, those integral signs should be derivative signs :smile:
Reply 70
Original post by Philip-flop
How on earth did you know instantly? I'm really struggling with these types :frown: I'm not even sure I know how to use Integration by Substitution in this case :frown:



Ok, so I can see (worked out) that...
sin3x=3cosxsin2x \int sin^3 x = 3 cosx sin^2 x

sin4x=4cosxsin3x \int sin^4 x = 4 cosx sin^3 x

sin5x=5cosxsin4x \int sin^5 x = 5 cosx sin^4 x << I didn't check whether this one was correct I just assumed.

Yes so this shows you if you need to integrate something of the form cosx\cos x multiplied by a power of sinx\sin x then you can "reverse the chain rule" by raising the power of the sinx\sin x by 1, ignoring coefficients for now. Can you see this?

Similarly you could integrate sinxcos6x\sin x \cos^6 x by considering the derivative of cos7x\cos^7 x.

It takes a lot of practice to get confident with this type of integration. Please keep asking if you need help.
Original post by RDKGames
Use the one which has the higher exponent on it, so sine has the higher exponent. Thus u=sin(x)u=\sin(x) works.

Also, those integral signs should be derivative signs :smile:


Yes I'm not sure why I used \int instead of f(x) f'(x) haha, can you tell my brain is fried?

Awesome, I'll try using the substitution that u=sin(x) u = sin(x) now :smile:

Thank you!

Original post by notnek
Yes so this shows you if you need to integrate something of the form cosx\cos x multiplied by a power of sinx\sin x then you can "reverse the chain rule" by raising the power of the sinx\sin x by 1, ignoring coefficients for now. Can you see this?

Similarly you could integrate sinxcos6x\sin x \cos^6 x by considering the derivative of cos7x\cos^7 x.

It takes a lot of practice to get confident with this type of integration. Please keep asking if you need help.


Yes I'm starting to see it now. I never properly came across these types until now so I guess I need to carry on familiarising myself with them!

Thank you so much! :smile:
Reply 72
Original post by Philip-flop
Yes I'm not sure why I used \int instead of f(x) f'(x) haha, can you tell my brain is fried?

Awesome, I'll try using the substitution that u=sin(x) u = sin(x) now :smile:

Thank you!



Yes I'm starting to see it now. I never properly came across these types until now so I guess I need to carry on familiarising myself with them!

Thank you so much! :smile:

By the way, this integral pattern isn't mentioned in the spec but is in the Edexcel textbook. And I've seen a few past paper questions that can be done almost instantly if you are confident with this integral form.

What is mentioned on the spec are integrals like

3x2x2+4 dx\displaystyle \int \frac{3x}{2x^2+4} \ dx

Again you can use a substitution but the best method here is to recognise the pattern.
Original post by Philip-flop
Yes I'm not sure why I used \int instead of f(x) f'(x) haha, can you tell my brain is fried?

Awesome, I'll try using the substitution that u=sin(x) u = sin(x) now :smile:

Thank you!

Yes I'm starting to see it now. I never properly came across these types until now so I guess I need to carry on familiarising myself with them!

Thank you so much! :smile:


For fun you can try proving that (n+1)cos(x)sinn(x).dx=sinn+1(x)+c\displaystyle \int (n+1)\cos(x)\sin^n(x) .dx = \sin^{n+1}(x)+c where n1n \geq 1 using substitution. I found it always nice to test my knowledge at A-Level by considering the general examples.

Then switch 'em around and prove that (n+1)sin(x)cosn(x).dx=cosn+1(x)+c\displaystyle \int (n+1)\sin(x)\cos^n(x).dx = -\cos^{n+1}(x)+c where n1n \geq 1 using an appropriate substitution

Might help you become more used to the pattern here and these problems in general.

Extension:

Spoiler

(edited 7 years ago)
Reply 74
Original post by RDKGames
...


Why n1n\geq 1?
Original post by Zacken
Why n1n\geq 1?


No particular reason other than it fits in with his example more.
Original post by notnek
By the way, this integral pattern isn't mentioned in the spec but is in the Edexcel textbook. And I've seen a few past paper questions that can be done almost instantly if you are confident with this integral form.

What is mentioned on the spec are integrals like

3x2x2+4 dx\displaystyle \int \frac{3x}{2x^2+4} \ dx

Again you can use a substitution but the best method here is to recognise the pattern.


I'm not even sure I even know how to solve 3x2x2+4 dx\displaystyle \int \frac{3x}{2x^2+4} \ dx using Integration by Substitution let alone by recognition :frown: :frown: :frown:

Feel like giving up.

I think I know how to integrate by using the fact that... f(x)f(x)dx=lnf(x)+c \int \frac{f'(x)}{f(x)} dx = ln |f(x)| + c

Original post by RDKGames
For fun you can try proving that (n+1)cos(x)sinn(x).dx=sinn+1(x)+c\displaystyle \int (n+1)\cos(x)\sin^n(x) .dx = \sin^{n+1}(x)+c where n1n \geq 1 using substitution. I found it always nice to test my knowledge at A-Level by considering the general examples.

Then switch 'em around and prove that (n+1)sin(x)cosn(x).dx=cosn+1(x)+c\displaystyle \int (n+1)\sin(x)\cos^n(x).dx = -\cos^{n+1}(x)+c where n1n \geq 1 using an appropriate substitution

Might help you become more used to the pattern here and these problems in general.

Extension:

Spoiler




Yes I definitely have to give this a go!
(edited 7 years ago)
Reply 77
Original post by Philip-flop
I'm not even sure I even know how to solve 3x2x2+4 dx\displaystyle \int \frac{3x}{2x^2+4} \ dx using Integration by Substitution let alone by recognition :frown: :frown: :frown:

You really need to know how to do these.

You need to spot that the numerator is a constant away from the derivative of 2x2+42x^2+4. And when you spot this pattern, the integral is always ln(the denominator)+c\ln (\text{the denominator})+c and then you adjust the constant in front of the log.

You should know this since the derivative of lnf(x)\ln f(x) is f(x)f(x)\frac{f'(x)}{f(x)} so if you are integrating a fraction where the numerator is the derivative of the denominator then by reversing the differentiation you end up with lnf(x)\ln f(x).
Original post by Philip-flop
I'm not even sure I even know how to solve 3x2x2+4 dx\displaystyle \int \frac{3x}{2x^2+4} \ dx using Integration by Substitution let alone by recognition :frown: :frown: :frown:

Feel like giving up.

I think I know how to integrate by using the fact that... f(x)f(x)dx=lnf(x)+c \int \frac{f'(x)}{f(x)} dx = ln |f(x)| + c



Yes I definitely have to give this a go!


Go through the integration chapter in the textbook again :smile: if you're not feeling comfortable with substitutions or recognitions.

The more you practice recognition questions... the easier they are to recognise.
Original post by notnek
You really need to know how to do these.

You need to spot that the numerator is a constant away from the derivative of 2x2+42x^2+4. And when you spot this pattern, the integral is always ln(the denominator)+c\ln (\text{the denominator})+c and then you adjust the constant in front of the log.

You should know this since the derivative of lnf(x)\ln f(x) is f(x)f(x)\frac{f'(x)}{f(x)} so if you are integrating a fraction where the numerator is the derivative of the denominator then by reversing the differentiation you end up with lnf(x)\ln f(x).

Yeah I know how to integrate by using the fact that... f(x)f(x)dx=lnf(x)+c \int \frac{f'(x)}{f(x)} dx = ln |f(x)| + c but I wasn't sure how I would do this by Substitution that's all :colondollar:

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