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Is class strictly defined or self defined?

Are terms like working class or middle class strictly defined or do you just choose what you want to be, I see lots of very different people calling themselves the same class.

Also aren't most people 'working'?

If rich people are middle class than who is upper class? Is a millionaire still middle class?

I feel because of the fact I'm an immigrant, some of my behaviours are more due to where I'm from/upbringing rather than my social class, so I find it difficult to place myself.

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Class naturally is your socioeconomic ranking/the household income you were born into or make on your own. I believe middle classed is average like making around 40k and the upper 5-digit salaries. Upper middle classed is like lower 6 figures. Working class is poverty, benefits to survive...stuff like that.

Then there's what society thinks of you. Like there's rich people who are lower classed and lower classed people who act posh. But I think basing class on behaviour is for finicky people who like to judge, and social climbers.
Reply 2
Avatar for Dheorl
Dheorl
17
The boundaries are so blurred I think it's almost impossible to place many people. I know some people in jobs who most would definitely consider middle class jobs, earning less than many builders I've known. People with barely a penny to their name attending much fancier social events than people with large sums in the bank. People born to millionaires who wear clothes from GAP and people on benefits who will save up for Boss jeans.

However you try and break it down, unless you ignore everything bar one point, I think there'll always be as many, if not more, people who don't fit than those who do.
Reply 3
Avatar for Dinasaurus
Dinasaurus
OP
22
Original post by 0to100
Class naturally is your socioeconomic ranking/the household income you were born into or make on your own. I believe middle classed is average like making around 40k and the upper 5-digit salaries. Upper middle classed is like lower 6 figures. Working class is poverty, benefits to survive...stuff like that.

Then there's what society thinks of you. Like there's rich people who are lower classed and lower classed people who act posh. But I think basing class on behaviour is for finicky people who like to judge, and social climbers.


But even with that example, what about like average people? I'm not in poverty, don't claim benefits, my household income is around £45k but it's mainly just my mum who earns like 75% of my household income. But when I was really young, my mother went to Britain and I stayed with my grandparents and they're not rich for UK standards as average income where I'm from is a lot lower but I'd say our domestic lifestyle was a bit higher than a lot of people who are definitely earning above 45k in Britain if that makes sense
Reply 4
Avatar for jkls92
jkls92
20
Original post by Dinasaurus
Are terms like working class or middle class strictly defined or do you just choose what you want to be [...]

They are not at all strictly defined, and an aspect to take into consideration when identifying a person's social class is how he identifies. However, self-definition is not the end all be all of the matter: a deluded worker who identifies as upper class remains working class.

Original post by Dinasaurus
Also aren't most people 'working'?

Consider it a synonym for "lower" (class).

Original post by Dinasaurus
If rich people are middle class than who is upper class?

Upper class should be limited to the aristocracy, but that's just for England. In the rest of the globalised and republican contemporary world upper class includes top politicians, billionaires, executive managers and influential financiers/bankers.

Original post by Dinasaurus
s a millionaire still middle class?

Probably not. By income/wealth, certainly not. But he might definitely be upper-middle class, and even middle or working class depending on background, upbringing, education, job, values and lifestyle.

Moreover, social class depends on many factors, not only financial ones: a poor aristocrat is still upper class, and a millionaire from an underprivileged background who has made his fortune by working hard might rightly keep on identifying as working class.
(edited 6 years ago)
Reply 5
Avatar for jkls92
jkls92
20
Original post by 0to100
Class naturally is your socioeconomic ranking/the household income you were born into or make on your own. I believe middle classed is average like making around 40k and the upper 5-digit salaries. Upper middle classed is like lower 6 figures. Working class is poverty, benefits to survive...stuff like that.

Then there's what society thinks of you. Like there's rich people who are lower classed and lower classed people who act posh. But I think basing class on behaviour is for finicky people who like to judge, and social climbers.

This might be correct to a certain degree, but it's also very inaccurate to base it on income. First of all, because you don't consider financial wealth, which matters at least as much as income in defining someone's financial position. In the second place, class is not only about money, it truly depends on education, job and background.

Original post by Dheorl
The boundaries are so blurred I think it's almost impossible to place many people. I know some people in jobs who most would definitely consider middle class jobs, earning less than many builders I've known.


The builder example shows how income fails as the sole indicator of social class.
Original post by Dinasaurus
But even with that example, what about like average people? I'm not in poverty, don't claim benefits, my household income is around £45k but it's mainly just my mum who earns like 75% of my household income. But when I was really young, my mother went to Britain and I stayed with my grandparents and they're not rich for UK standards as average income where I'm from is a lot lower but I'd say our domestic lifestyle was a bit higher than a lot of people who are definitely earning above 45k in Britain if that makes sense


You're middle classed prob

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_class_in_the_United_Kingdom#Middle_middle_class

Trust me it's not a patronising link to wiki, they break it down proper, click it
Original post by 0to100
You're middle classed prob

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_class_in_the_United_Kingdom#Middle_middle_class

Trust me it's not a patronising link to wiki, they break it down proper, click it


Aren't most people middle class?
Original post by AishaGirl
Aren't most people middle class?


how about you click the link and find out
Original post by usualsuspects
This might be correct to a certain degree, but it's also very inaccurate to base it on income. First of all, because you don't consider financial wealth, which matters at least as much as income in defining someone's financial position. In the second place, class is not only about money, it truly depends on education, job and background.



The builder example shows how income fails as the sole indicator of social class.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_class_in_the_United_Kingdom#Middle_middle_class this is acc really informative trust me.
Original post by 0to100
You're middle classed prob

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_class_in_the_United_Kingdom#Middle_middle_class

Trust me it's not a patronising link to wiki, they break it down proper, click it


According to the jobs, I guess I'm middle middle class. Is it also just how the job is perceived then? Says manual labourers are working class and retail is lower middle but I've done both in my gap year and I got like £600 a week in a factory but my pay was pretty mediocre working in a shop.
Original post by Dinasaurus
According to the jobs, I guess I'm middle middle class. Is it also just how the job is perceived then? Says manual labourers are working class and retail is lower middle but I've done both in my gap year and I got like £600 a week in a factory but my pay was pretty mediocre working in a shop.


I'm honestly not sure if the individual can be labelled as a class until they're completely independent of their parents and have their own house and household. So for now it's based on your parents. There are children of mega rich people who don't work at all, wouldn't make them underclassed you know.
Original post by 0to100
I'm honestly not sure if the individual can be labelled as a class until they're completely independent of their parents and have their own house and household. So for now it's based on your parents. There are children of mega rich people who don't work at all, wouldn't make them underclassed you know.


Does class pass down generations? My grandmother had nannies to look after her and her parents were quite wealthy, not entirely sure on the job title ran some some sort of large scale agricultural thing in East Africa in the late 1800s to early 1900s.
I though most people were working class meaning they have to work to house and feed themselves.Working class people included any person who works to pay their bills include doctor, teacher builder and career if they lose there jobs they don't have another saving to pay their housing and living costs after 2 months.

I know some working class people who are police officers and teachers who think there better than other working class people because there job and income levels however if they lose their jobs they end not being unable to pay their housing and living costs after 2 months

Middle class people are people with inherited money so they don't have to work for a living they choose too.

Upper class people are Lords and Ladies they inherited sometime money and large houses.
Original post by Dinasaurus
Does class pass down generations? My grandmother had nannies to look after her and her parents were quite wealthy, not entirely sure on the job title ran some some sort of large scale agricultural thing in East Africa in the late 1800s to early 1900s.


Apparently it does pass down but if you discontinue it in your household as an independent with your kids or partner then it probably won't matter.
Original post by AishaGirl
Whoa clam down, someone's a little touchy tonight. I did click the link but couldn't find an immediate answer and didn't want to read a lot to find it so I thought I'd ask you to see if you knew :K:


I'm rude to people who don't like me but in my opinion I was quite calm just there.
I don't think the classes really exist anymore. Everyone works. There is no distinction. It just a posh word for income levels nowadays.
Reply 17
Avatar for jkls92
jkls92
20
Original post by Dinasaurus
According to the jobs, I guess I'm middle middle class. Is it also just how the job is perceived then? Says manual labourers are working class and retail is lower middle but I've done both in my gap year and I got like £600 a week in a factory but my pay was pretty mediocre working in a shop.


You are too young to define class by your own income/job. Anyways, doing these things in your gap year is working/lower-middle, while, for example, teaching Latin to Africans is upper/upper-middle. You have to put everything together, can't base it only on income/position.
Original post by Dheorl
The boundaries are so blurred I think it's almost impossible to place many people. I know some people in jobs who most would definitely consider middle class jobs, earning less than many builders I've known. People with barely a penny to their name attending much fancier social events than people with large sums in the bank. People born to millionaires who wear clothes from GAP and people on benefits who will save up for Boss jeans.

However you try and break it down, unless you ignore everything bar one point, I think there'll always be as many, if not more, people who don't fit than those who do.


there a lot builders who have degrees they realized after graduating that they earn more working as a self employed builder than in a graduate job.
There are many ways to designate class. It can be done strictly by income, though that's reductive. It can be done by assessing attitudes, job titles or some other criteria though that is obviously imperfect. Much like political spectrum designations, notions of class have only limited use in assessing somebodies circumstances in the modern world. Essentially, it doesn't matter very much in a vacuum as any designation requires some discussion of the methodology.

If somebody says they are underclass, or upper-middle class, we can still make a number of assumptions about their circumstances with greater rates of accuracy than if they say nothing though.

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