"The People want us to get on with Brexit": Do they? Watch

Farm_Ecology
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I've seen this line that the people just want the politicians to get on with Brexit, but I question this.

Throughout this election I've seen political commentators predict how the election will go, as well as talk about what people are looking for. A big focus of this campaign has been Brexit and the negotiations, which is where the line "the Voters just want us to get on with Brexit" comes from. But many people I know don't actually care that much abut the Brexit negotiations, and instead voted on a whole series of other issues.

So what I want to know is whether political commentators are as out of touch with why people voted as I think they are.
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pereira325
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Asking the TSR which voted 62% labour and only 16% conservative when national results were 48% conservative and 42% labour (I think)
HAHAHA

To answer though uh, yes it was. Brexit going well is more important than what government we have imo
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Ezisola
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(Original post by Farm_Ecology)
So what I want to know is whether political commentators are as out of touch with why people voted as I think they are.


Seems like that are pretty in touch with what the voting majority want?
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Farm_Ecology
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(Original post by pereira325)
Asking the TSR which voted 62% labour and only 16% conservative when national results were 48% conservative and 42% labour (I think)
HAHAHA
I agree its not best sample size, but at the very least its probably a good analysis of labour voters at the least.


(Original post by Ezisola)

Seems like that are pretty in touch with what the voting majority want?
I dont understand how this is relevant.
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Ezisola
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(Original post by Farm_Ecology)
I dont understand how this is relevant.
Most voting people want to leave the EU. The 2 year timeline for doing so has already been started... so it is not such a stretch of the imagination to assume that people do want them to get on with Brexit.
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db10
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(Original post by Ezisola)


Seems like that are pretty in touch with what the voting majority want?
I think the OP is asking if Brexit was really that big a factor in who people voted for in this general election.

For example, I obviously want the UK leaving the EU to go well, but it did not influence my decision on who to vote for, despite the news saying that this was the "Brexit election". Mostly because I didn't buy into the rhetoric that May would get us a great deal through strength and stability while Corbyn is an incompetent leader who would leave us up the creek without a paddle. In reality, there's going to be a whole team of highly experienced economists, politicians, negotiators, etc. involved, and I think the end result will be pretty much the same regardless of which party is in power.
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pereira325
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(Original post by Ezisola)
Most voting people want to leave the EU. The 2 year timeline for doing so has already been started... so it is not such a stretch of the imagination to assume that people do want them to get on with Brexit.
Can't actually infer that. The EU referendum was in 2016 June, and this election was 2017 June.
A year has gone by and people (which could be many) seem to have changed their minds, hence the election results.
Really a vote not for the conservatives was a vote for a soft brexit/staying in the EU.
Since 48% of people voted conservatives, 52% did not and thus 52% this time voted for not leaving the EU/only leaving with a good deal.
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Ezisola
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(Original post by db10)
I think the OP is asking if Brexit was really that big a factor in who people voted for in this general election.

For example, I obviously want the UK leaving the EU to go well, but it did not influence my decision on who to vote for, despite the news saying that this was the "Brexit election". Mostly because I didn't buy into the rhetoric that May would get us a great deal through strength and stability while Corbyn is an incompetent leader who would leave us up the creek without a paddle. In reality, there's going to be a whole team of highly experienced economists, politicians, negotiators, etc. involved, and I think the end result will be pretty much the same regardless of which party is in power.
But Brexit was by far the single biggest issue to Conservatives campaigned on, and they get the highest number of votes and seats. So it could well be argued that people were voting on brexit as a priority.
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Farm_Ecology
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(Original post by Ezisola)
Most voting people want to leave the EU. The 2 year timeline for doing so has already been started... so it is not such a stretch of the imagination to assume that people do want them to get on with Brexit.
Actually it is.

To assume that just because someone voted Brexit they want a quick Brexit, I think is wrong. I also dont think you can assume that just because they voted Brexit, that it was a major part of how they voted in this GE.
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Farm_Ecology
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(Original post by Ezisola)
But Brexit was by far the single biggest issue to Conservatives campaigned on, and they get the highest number of votes and seats. So it could well be argued that people were voting on brexit as a priority.
I dont think you can read that into it either. This is more or less what I was trying to get at in this thread, there are a lot of assumptions about why people voted for either party, and what they mean about particular policies.

For example, the lack of Lib Dem support was declared as the people rejecting a second referendum, but almost every labour voter Ive spoken to would want a second referendum.
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mojojojo101
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(Original post by pereira325)
Can't actually infer that. The EU referendum was in 2016 June, and this election was 2017 June.
A year has gone by and people (which could be many) seem to have changed their minds, hence the election results.
Really a vote not for the conservatives was a vote for a soft brexit/staying in the EU.
Since 48% of people voted conservatives, 52% did not and thus 52% this time voted for not leaving the EU/only leaving with a good deal.
You are reading patterns where there are none and making assumptions about how people voted on an incredibly tenuous link.

If your assumptions were true you would have expected Ken Clarke to vote for Labour. Now I don't know for sure, but that seems unlikely.


For me Brexit is a fairly small issue, like others I know at this point it is too abstract and I too disconnected from it that others things matter much much more.

The EU plays very little consideration in my daily life and the lives of many other people. What happens in Westminster is far more important, Healthcare, Transport, Welfare, Employment, Housing... these are the policy areas that affect me and would affect my vote (if I did vote, which I don't, but that's a discussion for elsewhere).
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seaholme
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Fundamentally the only time the 'people' have shown their opinion on the issue of Brexit was the referendum itself. Anybody seeking to conflate the general election results with Brexit is just trying to push their particular false version of reality - so really it's no surprise that the Tories acted like people were voting for Brexit, or that newspapers like the Daily Mail acted the same way.

There were so many issues at stake in the election, and also a lack of credible choice involving Brexit. We have a more or less two party system here - either the Conservatives or Labour will ultimately be the major holder of power - and both parties promised Brexit, so there wasn't any real way for voters to show their views. A vote for the Liberal Democrats would in the vast majority of constituencies be a vote to enable whichever you consider the greater of two evils (Tories or Labour), besides which they only very recently demonstrated a fairly epic betrayal of trust on their promises, so with all due respect to them, they're not really a viable option.

For instance I sincerely don't want anybody to get on with Brexit, I think it will be economically and culturally disastrous and effectively blight the progress of this country for probably at least my own lifetime, but there wasn't really a way for me to express that in the election. The only thing I could do was vote for the party which I believe will negotiate the least damaging version of Brexit. So despite fundamentally disagreeing with them, I voted Labour in an attempt to prevent Hard Brexit and know many people who did the same. It would certainly be very frustrating to me if somebody conflated all votes for a pro-Brexit party, including my own, with people voting for Brexit to happen. Because there wasn't really an option otherwise.
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pereira325
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(Original post by mojojojo101)
You are reading patterns where there are none and making assumptions about how people voted on an incredibly tenuous link.

If your assumptions were true you would have expected Ken Clarke to vote for Labour. Now I don't know for sure, but that seems unlikely.


For me Brexit is a fairly small issue, like others I know at this point it is too abstract and I too disconnected from it that others things matter much much more.

The EU plays very little consideration in my daily life and the lives of many other people. What happens in Westminster is far more important, Healthcare, Transport, Welfare, Employment, Housing... these are the policy areas that affect me and would affect my vote (if I did vote, which I don't, but that's a discussion for elsewhere).
The election was about brexit whether you believe it or not. Theresa May even said she called it to strengthen our hand in the brexit negotiations.
"The EU plays very little consideration in my daily life and the lives of many other people".
"I don't" even vote hahaha.
I guess your point is complete opinion. Nuff said, let's see what others (Who might have actually voted) say
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mojojojo101
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(Original post by pereira325)
The election was about brexit whether you believe it or not. Theresa May even said she called it to strengthen our hand in the brexit negotiations.
"The EU plays very little consideration in my daily life and the lives of many other people".
"I don't" even vote hahaha.
I guess your point is complete opinion. Nuff said, let's see what others (Who might have actually voted) say
Where are the facts in your posts? What you've posted barely qualifies as an opinion, it's more of an over-involved brain fart.

The post I quoted before is about the most error ridden, false argument I have read on here for some time.

Brexit was an issue, but Labour's manifesto and the support they got showed that it was far less an issue than many pundits had counted on. Their campaign barely mentioned Brexit, they concentrated on the real, visceral issues in propels lives; student debt, the NHS, Welfare spending.

Why I don't vote is my issue, I'd be more than happy to tell you why but here is not the right place for that.

Also you need to learn how a quote works...
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pereira325
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(Original post by seaholme)
Fundamentally the only time the 'people' have shown their opinion on the issue of Brexit was the referendum itself. Anybody seeking to conflate the general election results with Brexit is just trying to push their particular false version of reality - so really it's no surprise that the Tories acted like people were voting for Brexit, or that newspapers like the Daily Mail acted the same way.

There were so many issues at stake in the election, and also a lack of credible choice involving Brexit. We have a more or less two party system here - either the Conservatives or Labour will ultimately be the major holder of power - and both parties promised Brexit, so there wasn't any real way for voters to show their views. A vote for the Liberal Democrats would in the vast majority of constituencies be a vote to enable whichever you consider the greater of two evils (Tories or Labour), besides which they only very recently demonstrated a fairly epic betrayal of trust on their promises, so with all due respect to them, they're not really a viable option.

For instance I sincerely don't want anybody to get on with Brexit, I think it will be economically and culturally disastrous and effectively blight the progress of this country for probably at least my own lifetime, but there wasn't really a way for me to express that in the election. The only thing I could do was vote for the party which I believe will negotiate the least damaging version of Brexit. So despite fundamentally disagreeing with them, I voted Labour in an attempt to prevent Hard Brexit and know many people who did the same. It would certainly be very frustrating to me if somebody conflated all votes for a pro-Brexit party, including my own, with people voting for Brexit to happen. Because there wasn't really an option otherwise.
Yes, so a vote for labour was essentially a vote against hard brexit. With a wish to stay in the EU...

(Original post by mojojojo101)
Where are the facts in your posts? What you've posted barely qualifies as an opinion, it's more of an over-involved brain fart.

The post I quoted before is about the most error ridden, false argument I have read on here for some time.

Brexit was an issue, but Labour's manifesto and the support they got showed that it was far less an issue than many pundits had counted on. Their campaign barely mentioned Brexit, they concentrated on the real, visceral issues in propels lives; student debt, the NHS, Welfare spending.

Why I don't vote is my issue, I'd be more than happy to tell you why but here is not the right place for that.

Also you need to learn how a quote works...
Tragic. What we can say is anyone who wanted to stay in the EU now would not have voted conservatives. Unless you can disprove that?
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username3167456
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I agree we need to hold the negotiations of Brexit, the referendum voted (even if I would've said remain). But, I do agree that a lot has changed since the elections, and a lot of people have realised some of the things promised (money to NHS, a complete immigration reform) really won't happen.. I feel like negotiations need to made and then a referendum on whether the country accepts the terms - since when the first referendum took place, we had no idea what the EU would want in return.
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seaholme
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(Original post by pereira325)
Yes, so a vote for labour was essentially a vote against hard brexit. With a wish to stay in the EU...
For me maybe, but I'll bet a hell of a lot of Brexiteers voted Labour as well. Your reply somewhat overlooks the point of what I was saying, that you can't infer a position on Brexit from a vote for anyone. Even some Remainers voted for the Conservatives because they thought Jeremy Corbyn too mad and dangerous on domestic issues. It's too tangled to conclude anything.
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mojojojo101
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(Original post by pereira325)
Yes, so a vote for labour was essentially a vote against hard brexit. With a wish to stay in the EU...



Tragic. What we can say is anyone who wanted to stay in the EU now would not have voted conservatives. Unless you can disprove that?
Firstly, not wanting a hard Brexit =/= wanting to stay in the EU. Yet again you are ignoring the obvious nuance to peddle your own flawed agenda.

As I said in my first post, Ken Clark disproves your idiotic point. He's a Tory MP, a former Tory Chancellor in fact and also a well known supporter of staying in the EU. He voted against triggering Article 50. The idea that He would vote for the Labour party is laughable. He also retained his parliamentary seat with over half the vote, why would he have won that seat when his views on Brexit are totally antagonistic to the ones you have imposed on all Conservative voters.
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acd55
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As a remainer, I honestly want brexit to just be done
The last thing I would want is another election before brexit happens
We are going to leave the EU either way, and EU will not let us remain in the single market without having freedom of movement. Whether I like it or not, people voted to leave, so we need to carry that out.
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acd55
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Also to add many people voted for corbyn as a vote against austerity, not necessarily because of his approach to brexit, which still involves coming out of the single market.
Polls suggest that most people who voted remain, accept that we are going to leave the EU
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