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Do you think euthanasia should be legalised in the UK?

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Original post by Moonstruck16
I'm not talking about people have been declared brain dead and recovering. I'm talking about the people who are brain dead. What's the cure to that?

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That's exactly my point...
Doctors can be wrong. They can make mistakes as to whether someone is actually brain dead or not.
Original post by Meany Pie
But they can still be suffering in that time.

Do you wish for them to suffer?

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I don't wish suffering upon anyone. However, i'd rather them suffer slightly and have a chance at survival and making a recovery (of which there's been many 'miraculous' ones) then be deemed terminal and have their life cut short without any hope by euthanasia.
Original post by Kyou
That's exactly my point...
Doctors can be wrong. They can make mistakes as to whether someone is actually brain dead or not.


You don't seem to understand so let me use a hypothetical scenario. If somebody has been dead for half an hour and is hooked up to life support and their system gets going again but they are DEFINITELY brain dead, what is the cure?

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Original post by Kyou
I don't wish suffering upon anyone. However, i'd rather them suffer slightly and have a chance at survival and making a recovery (of which there's been many 'miraculous' ones) then be deemed terminal and have their life cut short without any hope by euthanasia.


What about the people who choose to refuse treatment and want to die?

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Yes. Bodily autonomy and all that.
Original post by Kyou
I don't wish suffering upon anyone. However, i'd rather them suffer slightly and have a chance at survival and making a recovery (of which there's been many 'miraculous' ones) then be deemed terminal and have their life cut short without any hope by euthanasia.


There is no cure for terminal leukaemia, it causes a great deal of suffering and immense pain.

Hope doesn't stop suffering.

Why shouldn't people be given the choice to end their suffering?

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Original post by Moonstruck16
You don't seem to understand so let me use a hypothetical scenario. If somebody has been dead for half an hour and is hooked up to life support and their system gets going again but they are DEFINITELY brain dead, what is the cure?

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How can one tell they are definitely brain dead? In your scenario, it is most likely a doctor who has declared such a thing. And, as I said, a doctor is not infallible.

There is no way to tell if someone is definitely braindead. If there was, then your scenario hold weight.

But if I entertain your scenario, then if they are definitely brain dead then they are dead already. No part of the brain works anymore. In this case, euthanasia would serve 0 point as they're already dead. There is no cure for death.
Original post by Meany Pie
There is no cure for terminal leukaemia, it causes a great deal of suffering and immense pain.

Hope doesn't stop suffering.

Why shouldn't people be given the choice to end their suffering?

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Because even if a patient doesn't want a cure that doesn't exist, they should be made to wait for it!!! Remember, doctors can be wrong and God's will comes first 👀

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Original post by Kyou
How can one tell they are definitely brain dead? In your scenario, it is most likely a doctor who has declared such a thing. And, as I said, a doctor is not infallible.

There is no way to tell if someone is definitely braindead. If there was, then your scenario hold weight.

But if I entertain your scenario, then if they are definitely brain dead then they are dead already. No part of the brain works anymore. In this case, euthanasia would serve 0 point as they're already dead. There is no cure for death.


They are being kept 'alive' though.

I think it gets to a point where people who believe hope over doctors should probably find facilities elsewhere. Doctors are human and can be wrong yes, but they usually aren't. Euthanasia should be made legal.

Also, there is a criteria for declaring brain death. Yes there are anomalies but you can say that about anything in medicine.

EDIT: Maybe we should refer to it by its correct name of brain stem death.
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(edited 6 years ago)
Original post by JMR2017
No, medicine is not playing God.


I agree though probably not for the same reason, there is no such thing as playing god, anything we do is within our natural capabilities. One of the beautiful things about general intelligence is the ability to solve problems across all categories including our medical knowledge. If you believe god granted us that ability then everything we do with it is a god given gift. Including providing a merciful end of life treatment.

You stated your belief is death should come at its natural time though. If a person would naturally die and suffer without medicine, then using medical treatments is preventing death from coming at its natural time. And if it's not wrong to prevent death at its natural time by humane means, then what makes it wrong to provide a humane, merciful death to someone who has accepted their fate and wants to bring it about in a dignified, painless manner on their own terms?
Original post by JMR2017
I mean as technology and healthcare advances, we are starting to have more and more treatment options, and we are improving. The legalisation of euthanasia would mean there is a less need to improve, and therefore medicine would get better at a slower pace and the improvement would stagnate. Is that what you want?


One of the more hilariously confused argument's I've come across! Oh yes - the huge market that is keeping the multi-trillion dollar pharmaceutical industry alive is a few dozen terminally ill patients who are obviously going to be refusing all life-prolonging treatment anyway!

Original post by JMR2017
In Brazil, although euthanasia is illegal, a doctor has recently been accused of seven murders after killing patients in intensive care. An investigation is underway to elucidate 300 other cases of suspicious deaths, probably caused by the same doctor. What would have happened if euthanasia was legal here?


... and now his argument is that someone murders people therefore... something about euthanasia? This is great I was gonna give up on this thread as its too long but I'll keep reading now.
Original post by nexttime
One of the more hilariously confused argument's I've come across! Oh yes - the huge market that is keeping the multi-trillion dollar pharmaceutical industry alive is a few dozen terminally ill patients who are obviously going to be refusing all life-prolonging treatment anyway!



... and now his argument is that someone murders people therefore... something about euthanasia? This is great I was gonna give up on this thread as its too long but I'll keep reading now.


I mean I hope he actually comes back :P
Original post by Moonstruck16
Because even if a patient doesn't want a cure that doesn't exist, they should be made to wait for it!!! Remember, doctors can be wrong and God's will comes first 👀

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I'm so glad you are here to keep me on track :hat2:

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Original post by Moonstruck16
They are being kept 'alive' though.

I think it gets to a point where people who believe hope over doctors should probably find facilities elsewhere. Doctors are human and can be wrong yes, but they usually aren't. Euthanasia should be made legal.

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I don't believe in hope over doctors. However, in cases like this where the doctor cannot do anything anymore, yes then I do believe in hope.
oh, absolutely. I'd much rather go out peacefully on my own terms than have to suffer for months, or years, and know I was entirely dependant on other people just to get through day-to-day life. I'd want to know how long I was going to be able to stay autonomous, use that time to travel, have great experiences, then donate all my possessions to charity and go out with dignity. I think if people have the right to live then they also have the right to die.
Original post by Meany Pie
Sometimes there is nothing you can do, why continue to live if there is nothing left to live for?


Are you suggesting that suicide is okay?
Original post by Nathan Scott
Are you suggesting that suicide is okay?


That highly depends on the context.
Original post by Meany Pie
That highly depends on the context.


What do you mean? In what circumstances would you believe suicide is 'okay'
Original post by Nathan Scott
What do you mean? In what circumstances would you believe suicide is 'okay'


If someone had a terminal illness and euthanasia was still banned. Or if someone had a degenerative illness which would only get worse even with medical intervention.

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Original post by JMR2017
Since the Euthanasia causes unnatural death. And you are going to ask, 'But surely medicine gives unnatural life'? Well no, since there is a chance that you die, there is a chance you survive. It simply improves your chances.


Wow this user is going for the full house of dumb arguments! Love it!

So... what about if we used ineffective euthanasia JMR2017? Say we gave a dangerous dose of morphine but not possibly survivable. Solved you issue! Thank me later.

Original post by JMR2017
But many of these are from combinations of different natural things. You just have to be intelligent to find them!


So "natural" euthanasia would be ok then I take it? We could use the current methods - you have just argued that they are "natural". But if that's not enough we could go for some Deadly Nightshade? Or one of the many other of nature's poisons. If god didn't want us to use them why did he put them there right? :wink:

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