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Biomedical Science and the useless degree in reality

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News just in:

I was chatting with a colleague about the frustration we all have with IBMS and HCPC. She told me that she and a classmate from Brunel Bsc biomedical sciences applied for degree evaluation as they knew their courses were not IBMS approved.

The IBMS said colleague needed 5 modules extra, but friend needed just 4! Same university, same course, same optional modules etc.

They challenged this, IBMS responded with "we were training new assessors". We all know this degree recognition stuff is a nice money spinner for them. This makes them look like a right bunch of cowboys.

It is reminiscent of watchdog/radio4/Michael mosley program where they send specimens off for toxin/intolerance/biokinetic analysis to some quacky lab. The same hair/ blood/spittle is posted off under different names both returning different results but both prompting the patient stump up for some supplements.

My colleague and friend sensed the opportunity and appealed the decision and supplied information beyond what IBMS usually request.

Result = no top up

Cowboys indeed
this is fantastic news.. shows you exactly why i started this thread to point out the defects in the IBMS HCPC system. Its a drain of money for the poor students and the current students doing top ups.
I am not actually much informed with regards to career prospects in biomedical sciences. Is it an accurate to assume that many people choosing biomedical science are doing so because they wish to use it as a degree for application to graduate medicine? This makes me feel sad for those who chose biomedical science because they genuinely want a career out of it.
Y'all on the dole or what?
Original post by Mr Optimist
I am not actually much informed with regards to career prospects in biomedical sciences. Is it an accurate to assume that many people choosing biomedical science are doing so because they wish to use it as a degree for application to graduate medicine? This makes me feel sad for those who chose biomedical science because they genuinely want a career out of it.


if you want to work in a diagnostic laboratory, select wisely, very wisely. Do not be swayed by anything the IBMS says, they are not to be trusted. Go on the HCPC website and find precise courses that they recognise, this has been mentioned before in this thread but I will repeat it again - the HCPC are the entity you have to please. You are quite right about as a stop-gap for medicine - I am one. I did not get any offer for med school let alone the grades. If you are looking for an insurance option to fall back on, choose nursing, paramedic science, pharmacy, physiotherapy (not immune to the chicken/egg trainee position scenario) etc. The gist is do a vocational degree you can work as a locum or agency working during holidays when time allows. Nursing would be a good example. Given the ar.se-ache getting into biomedical science it might be too late for med school.

There are universities that allow their high-scoring biomedical science students to transfer into the 3rd year of the 5 year MBBS after they complete their BSc - so they end up looking like a medical student who intercalated, but with an honours degree, if I remember the intercalating med students have ordinary degrees. This helps the med schools massively, as any MBBS dropouts must have their state subsidy returned to the DoH/treasury or whoever chips in to cover the true cost of year 1+2 of MBBS.

I have a friend from secondary school who studied in Prague, did his USMLE concurrently and is now working in the USA. This was in the day of £1,200 pa tuition fees (I am that old) and his parents (both medics) could afford the £9k plus living expenses, however these would be several factors cheaper than the cheapest uni town in the UK.
Original post by captainmandrake
if you want to work in a diagnostic laboratory, select wisely, very wisely. Do not be swayed by anything the IBMS says, they are not to be trusted. Go on the HCPC website and find precise courses that they recognise, this has been mentioned before in this thread but I will repeat it again - the HCPC are the entity you have to please. You are quite right about as a stop-gap for medicine - I am one. I did not get any offer for med school let alone the grades. If you are looking for an insurance option to fall back on, choose nursing, paramedic science, pharmacy, physiotherapy (not immune to the chicken/egg trainee position scenario) etc. The gist is do a vocational degree you can work as a locum or agency working during holidays when time allows. Nursing would be a good example. Given the ar.se-ache getting into biomedical science it might be too late for med school.

There are universities that allow their high-scoring biomedical science students to transfer into the 3rd year of the 5 year MBBS after they complete their BSc - so they end up looking like a medical student who intercalated, but with an honours degree, if I remember the intercalating med students have ordinary degrees. This helps the med schools massively, as any MBBS dropouts must have their state subsidy returned to the DoH/treasury or whoever chips in to cover the true cost of year 1+2 of MBBS.

I have a friend from secondary school who studied in Prague, did his USMLE concurrently and is now working in the USA. This was in the day of £1,200 pa tuition fees (I am that old) and his parents (both medics) could afford the £9k plus living expenses, however these would be several factors cheaper than the cheapest uni town in the UK.


Hey there,

I have just graduated from pharmacy school. I am not going into biomedical science. I asked that question because I was just wondering because all I knew about biomedical science was that it is accepted a foundation degree for those want to do medicine. I am also hoping to do medicine later down the line i.e in 3-4 years. We'll see how it goes.
Original post by Bin_Collection
Y'all on the dole or what?


If get £24,000 but that's after 5 years in the same lab. I started on £20,500. My BMS colleagues, even the stupid ones, get £34,000.

And don't forget, pretty much everyone is eligible for a state payout of some kind. My family get housing benefit, aka landlord subsidy.
(edited 6 years ago)
Original post by jockingclown
this is fantastic news.. shows you exactly why i started this thread to point out the defects in the IBMS HCPC system. Its a drain of money for the poor students and the current students doing top ups.


You created this post back in 2014, if you ever decided to pursue legal action you have 6 years from whenever IBMS took your money (contract law).

Claims under £10,000 are considered under the small claims track. Unfortunately document disclosure is not a part of the small claims track. Disclosure is used in fast and multi track claims to force your opponent to allow inspection of documents that may harm their defence and bolster yours.

That aside, it's a lot of work for £250.

You could try asking classmates from your course or other year groups and try and recreate what happened to my colleague and her friend.

If you believe your course should meet the IBMS standards reapply with extra detail, including but not limited to module content and department head letters.
Original post by jockingclown
this is fantastic news.. shows you exactly why i started this thread to point out the defects in the IBMS HCPC system. Its a drain of money for the poor students and the current students doing top ups.


So then is it true that nursing gives you everything BMS does but more when it comes to employment prospects and career progression? If this is the case, I don't see any reason why people pick BMS over nursing.
What about the PA route, people haven't discussed this yet? There could be lots of PA jobs out there? Is this oversubscribed as well?
Original post by xptrt3
So then is it true that nursing gives you everything BMS does but more when it comes to employment prospects and career progression? If this is the case, I don't see any reason why people pick BMS over nursing.
What about the PA route, people haven't discussed this yet? There could be lots of PA jobs out there? Is this oversubscribed as well?


I could never understand physician assistant/associate role (I assume that's what you mean). I think that merits a thread of its own. Well, I understand that they halfway between nurse and doctor but it sounds limiting and I can imagine them having the same conversation with both colleagues and patients explaining what they are. This will become very tedious, very quickly.

I'm sure they do/ can do a wonderful job but they sound a bit like PCSOs of the medical world. Having said that, if you could upgrade PA training to that of a medical doctor I would sign up tomorrow, given the example below.

I know St George's in London does a PA course. Last time I looked they needed a first degree in a science subject (they accept 2:2). The course is 2 years in length which includes placements in a variety of settings.

This compares with 4 years for graduate entry medicine, which some places still allow 2:2. The difference is the time away from earning money.

Really it comes down to what you want to do on the end. If you want a backup if medical school doesn't work out, pick nursing. Then you can do graduate medicine later having acquired some years experience. Who knows, nursing might work better for you - it's a broad church with lots of variety.

PA were originally created by the US army in the years after the Vietnam war. Well, medical assistants existed for a much longer time but they were never allowed to take that skill and training to civilian life. Much like the British military combat medical technicians who could easily convert to paramedics if army/civilian regulatory bodies allowed it.
In the USA Civilian recognition allowed them to work outside of the military without having to restart training from the beginning.

I really do think PA deserves its own thread so if mods like, please move.
Original post by LeaX
I emailed my uni just yesterday about changing my course to Biomedical Sciences next year and now I see this lol, do you think I'd be better off in Biology?


Did you pick biomedical science?
Original post by SophieSmall
Initially probably, you have to start somewhere and you can't afford to be fussy nowadays. I'd be quite happy in many areas of biomedical related grad jobs, I plan to work for a few years and then do a masters anyway.


Where did you study it?
Hi.. I'll do biomedical science this September. I would like to say that no course is useless. It's all about passion. One man with passion is worth 10,000 without. I can't say somethings here for privacy reasons but just trust me and do what you really feel peaceful doing. Good luck.
Original post by gw07mcgheerachel
Where did you study it?


LJMU.
Reply 414
Avatar for Dirus
Dirus
Hi there, I am doing something a bit unrelated, Biological Sciences. I am curious as to what Biomedical Science students plan to do if they don't get onto HCPC registration, please? Thanks.
Original post by Dirus
Hi there, I am doing something a bit unrelated, Biological Sciences. I am curious as to what Biomedical Science students plan to do if they don't get onto HCPC registration, please? Thanks.


I've chosen to go a different route for two reasons, 1 being have 0 interest in being HCPC registered because I found I hated labs and have no desire to work in one and that was what my degree basically trained me to go into, and 2 there aren't as many opportunities as there used to be to become registered. Competition is fierce.

I'm going on to do a masters in public health to change my field. Some people go into things like food safety, health and safety, private laboratories etc that don't require HCPC registration.
Reply 416
Avatar for Dirus
Dirus
Original post by SophieSmall
I've chosen to go a different route for two reasons, 1 being have 0 interest in being HCPC registered because I found I hated labs and have no desire to work in one and that was what my degree basically trained me to go into, and 2 there aren't as many opportunities as there used to be to become registered. Competition is fierce.

I'm going on to do a masters in public health to change my field. Some people go into things like food safety, health and safety, private laboratories etc that don't require HCPC registration.


Cheers and wish you all the best.
Original post by captainmandrake
News just in:

I was chatting with a colleague about the frustration we all have with IBMS and HCPC. She told me that she and a classmate from Brunel Bsc biomedical sciences applied for degree evaluation as they knew their courses were not IBMS approved.

The IBMS said colleague needed 5 modules extra, but friend needed just 4! Same university, same course, same optional modules etc.

They challenged this, IBMS responded with "we were training new assessors". We all know this degree recognition stuff is a nice money spinner for them. This makes them look like a right bunch of cowboys.

It is reminiscent of watchdog/radio4/Michael mosley program where they send specimens off for toxin/intolerance/biokinetic analysis to some quacky lab. The same hair/ blood/spittle is posted off under different names both returning different results but both prompting the patient stump up for some supplements.

My colleague and friend sensed the opportunity and appealed the decision and supplied information beyond what IBMS usually request.

Result = no top up

Cowboys indeed


Wait, what? For some reason I'm not following what you said. Can you explain again?
Reply 418
Avatar for noxion
noxion
Going a bit off topic but find myself looking for another job, relocating. I know most departments call themselves blood sciences I know in my previous role they did but still operate very separate. But now interview panels comprise of haem, blood bank and biochem! I have 4 years experience in biochemistry and hold an ibms specialist, never worked in haem. I have two interviews coming up and I really need to get either one as they are local to where I live now. I don't want to locum or venture far. I have given myself a crash course in haem/transfusion but would like an overview of what kind of questions they ask to focus on. Thanks.
At the end of the day ...don't look at what everyone else around you is doing..you do what you love...in life it's better to get your head stuck in and just get on with it....otherwise you'll be making a lot of noise and when u finally look up you'll realise everyone has moved on and your still there talking about the same issue. Jockingclown you seem very intelligent, I would advice you to stay in a lab, gain good relationships and then take your time. There's no rush. Plus I had a friend who had to do 8 top up modules...so count yourself lucky.

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