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Charlie Gard: Death threats sent to Great Ormond Street staff

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Reply 20
Original post by Trapz99
Considering that they aren't giving Charlie's parents the right to seek treatment elsewhere, they are preventing the child from receiving possibly life-saving treatment and therefore, yes, they are threatening to kill him. Look at it from the parents' point of view. They are clear that ending Charlie's life is against their wishes and, since it's their child, I can understand why they would see it as murder if he was killed by the doctors.



They are preventing the suffering of the child. There's a point where they have to make a decision that putting the child through a trans-atlantic flight and a treatment that will probably not work would be akin to cruelty (though obviously not at all with that intension from the parents). You can get anyone to tell you that a test treatment might work on you in America for literally anything. They have to protect the child from a medical perspective. They are are the ones that know what they're talking about. I totally understand the parents' point of view and understand why they are doing it. I might even do the same in their position. I'm not blaming them at all. Saying that the doctors are threatening to kill him, which is NOT what they are doing, is completely wrong and a immense oversimplification. They are putting the child's best interests first, from a medical expert point of view, not the parents'. The parents obviously think they are doing the right thing but they have no idea about medicine. Doctors refusing them was probably one of the hardest things they had to do, let alone having half the country basically calling them murderers.
Reply 21
Original post by Moonstruck16
Ah another one. Before you start making these idiotic claims, go and read GOSH's most recent statement on the case. It's on their website.

Posted from TSR Mobile


where is it on their website?
Original post by Moura
where is it on their website?


http://www.gosh.nhs.uk/news/latest-press-releases/latest-statement-charlie-gard

Download the PDF to get the full thing.

Posted from TSR Mobile
I love how people are calling the doctors murderers. Doctors are their in the best interests of the patients and in this case, Charlie is the patient, not his parents. His needs come first. People with this attitude clearly also must think that if a doctor does not save a patient because nothing can be done, they should be charged with manslaughter.

Posted from TSR Mobile
Original post by Trapz99
Considering that they aren't giving Charlie's parents the right to seek treatment elsewhere, they are preventing the child from receiving possibly life-saving treatment and therefore, yes, they are threatening to kill him. Look at it from the parents' point of view. They are clear that ending Charlie's life is against their wishes and, since it's their child, I can understand why they would see it as murder if he was killed by the doctors.


Firstly, the court have said Charlie cannot move. The Doctors do not have a say. That is entire point of the new hearing.

The only reason why he is alive is because of those doctors. The treatment offered is experimental and has never been tested on humans. There is no data supporting it's efficacy. Charlie is brain dead and is being kept alive with a life support machine. Therefore, his life should be ended instead of keeping him alive artificially for another 3 months to please his religious extremist parents.
(edited 6 years ago)
I respect his parents. They have the strength of character to stand up to and question the medical establishment. It is a sharp contrast to the sheeple that refuse to question authority.
Original post by Trapz99
Considering that they aren't giving Charlie's parents the right to seek treatment elsewhere, they are preventing the child from receiving possibly life-saving treatment and therefore, yes, they are threatening to kill him. Look at it from the parents' point of view. They are clear that ending Charlie's life is against their wishes and, since it's their child, I can understand why they would see it as murder if he was killed by the doctors.


Mitochondrial DNA depletion is killing Charlie Gard, not the doctors.

Withdrawing a treatment which is prolonging death (rather than extending life) is not killing someone, and isn't seen as such by law.

I can't help but wonder how many children with reversible conditions have come to harm through delayed access to paediatric intensive resources as a result of this case, given how exceptionally finite they are.
Reply 27
Original post by Whiskey&Freedom
I respect his parents. They have the strength of character to stand up to and question the medical establishment. It is a sharp contrast to the sheeple that refuse to question authority.


f*ck the "experts"! they've only spent 5 years in formal higher education, 2 years in rigorous training, every year since then doing numerous courses (sometimes at their own expense), specialist training and years of experience - sacrificing huge amounts of free time thoughout all of this! they know nothing! we need to question their every move! it's all a conspiracy!
Original post by Moura
f*ck the "experts"! they've only spent 5 years in formal higher education, 2 years in rigorous training, every year since then doing numerous courses (sometimes at their own expense), specialist training and years of experience - sacrificing huge amounts of free time thoughout all of this! they know nothing! we need to question their every move! it's all a conspiracy!


The Illuminati recruits always become evident during the summer holidays :colone:
Original post by Moura
I think rather than it being the norm for most people, there is a group of people who might seem normal to their friends and family but are secretly addicted to "trolling" and jump on any opportunity to send people evil messages and death threats because they think it's funny. It's very very odd.



also i don't think it should be called trolling. that just trivialises it. to me trolling is posting provoking but harmless i.e. "justin bieber is the best musician ever born"... this is another level.


Yes... also the tabloid press are using this to whip up hate, particularly the Mail. I think they feel that people will be confused by the story and they can make it part of the "terrible NHS" mantra, part of the long term plan to destabilise and destroy the NHS that the offshored oligarchs who own the Mail are into. They want it to be privatised so that additional profits can flow to the US healthcare giants and other financial capital interests that they will be involved in.
Original post by DorianGrayism
Firstly, the court have said Charlie cannot move. The Doctors do not have a say. That is entire point of the new hearing.

The only reason why he is alive is because of those doctors. The treatment offered is experimental and has never been tested on humans. There is no data supporting it's efficacy. Charlie is brain dead and is being kept alive with a life support machine. Therefore, his life should be ended instead of keeping him alive artificially for another 3 months to please his religious extremist parents.


It does look as if some of these medics from the US are promoting what appear to be entirely untested treatments - perhaps, cynically, they view this baby as a potential testbed and also as a potential advertising medium for their ideas in the unlikely event that they work.

I feel desperately sorry for both the parents and the staff at Great Ormond, who are all very good people stuck in a hard place.
Original post by Fullofsurprises
It does look as if some of these medics from the US are promoting what appear to be entirely untested treatments - perhaps, cynically, they view this baby as a potential testbed and also as a potential advertising medium for their ideas in the unlikely event that they work.

I feel desperately sorry for both the parents and the staff at Great Ormond, who are all very good people stuck in a hard place.


I wouldn't be surprised if they were going after him to use as a clinical trial subject.
Original post by Moonstruck16
I wouldn't be surprised if they were going after him to use as a clinical trial subject.


I get the impression he might be. I'm sure I read something about a 10% improvement?

The cost to great Ormond street hospital is incalculable. They do a brilliant job for some of the sickest children in the world and they are being treated like kidnappers


Quite. Meanwhile, they've saved the lives of some seriously ill children. I have a relative whose child was taken there not long after he was born. He's spent a lot of time there as well.
It just shows how dumb the public are when it comes to understanding things like this.

Without GOSH this poor kid would be dead right now. They have managed to keep him comfortable up to this point, and simply want his last remaining time alive to be as pain-free as possible.

But people are too interested in appearing self-righteous and wanting to feel good about themselves, that they think an experimental treatment in the US will miraculously cure him.

People are just dumb.


Very interesting read. Thanks for the link.

I've agreed with the doctors from first hearing about Charlie. It is such a difficult situation! I can understand the perspective of his parents, believing they should have the final say on their child's treatment and not wanting to give up on hope, no matter how small.

However, neither parent is a trained medical professional so the only information they know about Mitochondrial Depletion Syndrome would be from the doctors or literature. The doctors aren't going out their way to try and end Charlie's life. They are acting in his best interests within the context of their years of medical training and experience.
Original post by Fullofsurprises
It does look as if some of these medics from the US are promoting what appear to be entirely untested treatments - perhaps, cynically, they view this baby as a potential testbed and also as a potential advertising medium for their ideas in the unlikely event that they work.

I feel desperately sorry for both the parents and the staff at Great Ormond, who are all very good people stuck in a hard place.


Original post by Moonstruck16
I wouldn't be surprised if they were going after him to use as a clinical trial subject.


I think if that were the case, and the parents saw it as such, it wouldn't be too bad a thing. After all, how else can you hope to treat illnesses that kill the very young apart from try experimental treatments on the very young?

That said, if that is the case then I don't see why the parents (with help from donations) are having to stump up the cash. If you volunteer to test something, at the very least it shouldn't cost you.
Original post by ThomH97
I think if that were the case, and the parents saw it as such, it wouldn't be too bad a thing. After all, how else can you hope to treat illnesses that kill the very young apart from try experimental treatments on the very young?

That said, if that is the case then I don't see why the parents (with help from donations) are having to stump up the cash. If you volunteer to test something, at the very least it shouldn't cost you.


Lol I really doubt those two are viewing this as a chance to give other sick children a chance.
Original post by Moonstruck16
Lol I really doubt those two are viewing this as a chance to give other sick children a chance.


True, but it is the only justification I can see for legally letting people experiment with treatments on kids.
Original post by ThomH97
True, but it is the only justification I can see for legally letting people experiment with treatments on kids.


Plenty of clinical trials work this way. Sick kid is invited to try out a new drug as part of their treatment. Granted most things are tried out on animals first but ya know.
Original post by ThomH97
I think if that were the case, and the parents saw it as such, it wouldn't be too bad a thing. After all, how else can you hope to treat illnesses that kill the very young apart from try experimental treatments on the very young?

That said, if that is the case then I don't see why the parents (with help from donations) are having to stump up the cash. If you volunteer to test something, at the very least it shouldn't cost you.


The same way any medical drug or procedure is done. You do years of clinical testing. Even after years of clinical testing, you find effects on humans that were not apparent.

Keeping anyone alive in pain on an artificial ventilator to experiment with an untested treatment that will not increase quality of life is unethical to the extreme.

The NHS is not going to pay for an untested treatment. That would be stupid.

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